some colombus WIs

Straha

Banned
What would have happened had Ferdinand and Isabella not decided to employ Columbus?

1 My best guess is that Spain would still include southern Italy, Sicily, Malta, Sardinia, and Corsica ( the old Aragonese Empire) plus Tunisia, coastal Algeria and much of northern Morocco plus Portugal. The Dutch wars would never happen - without the New World bullion Philip has no choice but to let the heretics go. Carib is settled by a mixed swarm of European adventurers. Cortez and Pizzaro ( or whoever fills in for them in this TL ) establish dynasties much like William the Conquorer did in the UK. Major settlement of the New World comes much sooner as there is no one Imperial power to bar the way and no treasure fleets for the pirates to plunder. The African slave trade is a minor footonote invloving a few hundreds of thousands of captives spread over a few centuries in small boat loads instead of the tidal wave it was. More Asian slaves than African in this TL as independent Peru and Mexico trade more across the Pacific than the Atlantic. More European and Middle Eastern slaves / indentured servants than both combined. More intermarriage in North and South America along the lines of French Canada and the metis.

2. Three ships, the Santa Maria, Nina, and the Pinta, are caught in a violent storm as they are sailing to what one Christopher COlumbus thinks is the West Indies. One or more of the ships is sunk, and Christopher Columbus goes down with his ship. Upon receiving this news (either from a survivor or from the lapse of time without a contact), Isabella and Ferdinand dismiss "silly old Columbus, who thought the world was round" from their heads.

3. Columbus survives and everything goes as in OTL, except for one thing: the new world is named after Columbus and not Amerigo Vespucci.
 
"1 My best guess is that Spain would still include southern Italy, Sicily, Malta, Sardinia, and Corsica ( the old Aragonese Empire) plus Tunisia, coastal Algeria and much of northern Morocco plus Portugal. The Dutch wars would never happen - without the New World bullion Philip has no choice but to let the heretics go. Carib is settled by a mixed swarm of European adventurers. Cortez and Pizzaro ( or whoever fills in for them in this TL ) establish dynasties much like William the Conquorer did in the UK. Major settlement of the New World comes much sooner as there is no one Imperial power to bar the way and no treasure fleets for the pirates to plunder. The African slave trade is a minor footonote invloving a few hundreds of thousands of captives spread over a few centuries in small boat loads instead of the tidal wave it was. More Asian slaves than African in this TL as independent Peru and Mexico trade more across the Pacific than the Atlantic. More European and Middle Eastern slaves / indentured servants than both combined. More intermarriage in North and South America along the lines of French Canada and the metis."

This sounds like the most interesting scenario. A Caribbean (and, eventually, an America) settled by Willie-the-Conqueror types and full of pirate kingdoms and the like would certainly be an interesting place. Will Spain become as oppressive OTL w/out the New World gold? The Inquisition, "faith-based conquest machine mentality," and belief that warfare is better than real work is still there...you've got the Spanish going into North Africa, so you seem to take that into account.
 
Straha,

Do you mind if I borrow the first scenario for some AH stuff? I can post the results of the extrapolation here.

1) The New World will resemble the America of the "A-S" world a lot. Lots of independent little kingdoms and more mixing/assimilation with the Native Americans.

2) W/out Spain to settle in Latin America and the Caribbean, other Europeans will probably make a move for it. We could always plagiarize the "Columbus Sails for the French" scenario for nifty details (one idea included the French translating the Aztec codices rather than torching them like the Spanish).

3) No flows of New World gold will affect the economic situation in Europe...they caused something called "the Price Revolution."
 
Straha,

Spain will probably ally with Portugal to conquer the North African territories, possibly in a Crusade against the Barbary Pirates (centuries ago, North Africans held over a million European slaves--see the following link).

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20040317.shtml

The King of Portugal can die without an heir in this war (I think he died in North Africa in OTL), or perhaps his heir can die too (possibly by Spanish treachery) and that'll lead to the Spanish king inheriting the Portuguese crown.

The success of this enterprise might lead to a burst of new Crusades into the Middle East. Someone commented that no European settlement in the New World meant Euro colonialism in the Middle East...we could have some of this in this TL. The Ottomans will be stronger, though...the "price revolution" hurt them a lot, though I imagine John will be able to explain this better.

We might very well have a series of massive Mediterranean wars between the Spanish and Austrian Hapsburgs and the Ottomans and their Barbary Pirate allies (unless the sultans decide to chuck the pirates...Scott said that Selim II found the corsairs embarrassing).

Here's an idea. The New World will be a place of exile for the losers of dynastic wars (just like Gareth the Lucky and his folks fled the loss of war in Britain to Newfoundland). They could use the resouces of the New World to try to stage a dramatic return, or at least harass their enemies.
 
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