Dead by Dawn: The Road to Revolution

[Sumeragi]

Still awed at how you made National Socialism a major force in the world.

[Enigmajones]

Thanks! I hope it doesn't feel forced or unrealistic.

[scourge]

I just read the whole timeline and it's pretty good. I can't wait for the next update.

[traveller76]

The Indian War sounds interesting.

[Russian Sailor]

Can you make a post on what France is like under the socialist?

[Enigmajones]

Originally Posted by scourge

I just read the whole timeline and it's pretty good. I can't wait for the next update.

Thanks! Me neither.

Originally Posted by traveller76

The Indian War sounds interesting.

Yeah the Indian War will definitely come up more in the next few posts. I'll try to post an definite update about the Indian War.

Originally Posted by Russian Sailor

Can you make a post on what France is like under the socialist?

I will. No doubt.

And Merry Christmas Everyone!

[jeckl]

you say "the Second English Civil War", but it should be the third, the second civil war was what prompted Oliver Cronwel and the rest of his 'lot' to kill the king.

What will the new civil war entail? Also what will happen to Australia? I imagine Britain would lose it's colonies but Aussies, could take control in Malaya (including Singapore) and Hk.

[Enigmajones]

Originally Posted by jeckl

you say "the Second English Civil War", but it should be the third, the second civil war was what prompted Oliver Cronwel and the rest of his 'lot' to kill the king.

What will the new civil war entail? Also what will happen to Australia? I imagine Britain would lose it's colonies but Aussies, could take control in Malaya (including Singapore) and Hk.

I meant Second British Civil War. And Im pretty sure thats what I called it. Anyhow here is a down low explanation of what starts the Civil War. When MacDonald gives Asylum to the German Jews, he promptly shoots Labour in the knee with many Lower Class English people. Labour is far less hurt in Scotland and Wales, but is divided with the different Radical parties. The Strasserist strain of Nazism catching on pretty quickly with the lower class, with many flocking to its ideals of overthrowing the class system in place. Labour becomes the bastion of the new Larger Jewish minority along with many of its regular voters, those not completely caught up in the whole Xenophobia thing. Not to mention the evolving cultural warfare between the young and the old. The Tories are seen as the ultimate symbol of the establishment. Fighting for king and country. Fighting a war in India, tensions rising in Africa, Australia and Canada growing upset, questioning their requirement to send troops to fight a multiple front war in India. The Empire, without a war against a real evil is lacking a central union. And the UK is faced with something it never really had to face, the downfall of the Empire, which in OTL they completely bypassed thanks to the rise of the United States.

The war will begin with a coup d'etat. The Army, controlled by officials loyal to the old Conservative government, nicknamed the Doddies, after their hero Dodds-Parker, are against ending the war in India and against what they see as a betrayal of the Empire, leaving the Crown Jewel of the Empire to the hands of, in their opinion, savages. So it will be a war between the Government the military and whole mess of Colonial shitstorms.

[Enigmajones]

Damn, I will definitely try to update this sooner then later. I've been busy with the Holidays.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Enigmajones

I meant Second British Civil War. And Im pretty sure thats what I called it. Anyhow here is a down low explanation of what starts the Civil War. When MacDonald gives Asylum to the German Jews, he promptly shoots Labour in the knee with many Lower Class English people. Labour is far less hurt in Scotland and Wales, but is divided with the different Radical parties. The Strasserist strain of Nazism catching on pretty quickly with the lower class, with many flocking to its ideals of overthrowing the class system in place. Labour becomes the bastion of the new Larger Jewish minority along with many of its regular voters, those not completely caught up in the whole Xenophobia thing. Not to mention the evolving cultural warfare between the young and the old. The Tories are seen as the ultimate symbol of the establishment. Fighting for king and country. Fighting a war in India, tensions rising in Africa, Australia and Canada growing upset, questioning their requirement to send troops to fight a multiple front war in India. The Empire, without a war against a real evil is lacking a central union. And the UK is faced with something it never really had to face, the downfall of the Empire, which in OTL they completely bypassed thanks to the rise of the United States.

The war will begin with a coup d'etat. The Army, controlled by officials loyal to the old Conservative government, nicknamed the Doddies, after their hero Dodds-Parker, are against ending the war in India and against what they see as a betrayal of the Empire, leaving the Crown Jewel of the Empire to the hands of, in their opinion, savages. So it will be a war between the Government the military and whole mess of Colonial shitstorms.

It wouldn't be the second British civil war. We've already had three of them (well, English civil wars to be precise). Your best bet would be to give it either a political label (such as the Nazi Civil War) or the such and such revolt/revolution depending on who wins.

Two or three other minor quibbles:

The Queen is the head of the armed forces and the democratically elected government's power only comes from her. Any army coup would be denounced by the monarchy and, for that matter, by the conservative party who were, back then, incredibly loyal to the monarchy. So what you'd probably have is an alliance of most of the armed forces (especially given that most soldiers were working class) and the militant mosleyites versus a relatively small number of reactionaries in the UK meaning that they'd be crushed instantly. On the other hand, the colonial governors might well side with the forces conducting the coup leading to a very "interesting" geopolitical situation.

That's not to say this civil war couldn't happen, but you'd have to find some way for the Queen either to be captured and therefore kept from interfering in events or for her to side with the coup forces (though that seems a bit unlikely).

There's also the whole thing that, being British, we don't really do civil wars given that the national political temperament is usually towards moderatism. I think you've hinted at a good way to butterfly that away though given that the post WW2 reforms haven't happened yet in this TL and therefore Britain is stuck with only the limited reforms that the Liberals implemented prior to WW1.

Clement Atlee was a Labour Prime Minister so I'm not sure why he's on the list as a Conservative PM (incidentally, the term isn't ministership, the classical term is Ministry as in the Churchill ministry, the Asquith ministry, etc.)

Finally, and this is more of a wish, any news on what's happening with the Liberal party? Given that Labour seems to have allied with Mosley here you'd think that the non-xenophobic elements of Labour and the working classes might well have sided with a somewhat invigorated Liberal party which will have adopted the New Liberalism/social liberalism ideologies.

The reason I bring this up is because things like the battle of Cable Street would still be likely to happen in this TL (has there been a ban on political uniforms btw?) except that it wouldn't be Labourites versus the Fascists as it would likely be Mosleyites versus non-xenophobes in the east end who would have mostly have come from former immigrant families themselves.

The other reason is that immigrants in the UK traditionally arrive in London and normally tend to settle there or in small communities in other big cities. Given the relatively small number of immigrants in this TL (the massive influx of immigrants from the former empire won't have happened yet) you'd think that some cities, such as Birmingham which was always a working class Liberal stronghold, might well become the home of a political force that didn't agree with the tories or with the xenophobia of Mosley and the Labourites who supported him. Hence my suggestion of a Liberal revival.

Health Warning: I am a liberal and therefore am partially motivated by my desire to see a TL where Liberal militias start setting up barricades and information stalls about the benefits of electoral reform

I know this has been a fairly critical post but please don't think that I'm not enjoying the TL. It's really interesting what you're doing here and I've subscribed most happily

[Enigmajones]

A third party... sounds good. I could definitely add that to the mayhem. And I know there have been several English Civil Wars but I've never heard of a British Civil War. Except for the British Civil Wars which was arguably the "First British Civil War". As to the Nazi War, the NBWP is a very large party but they aren't nicknamed the Nazi's, I was thinking the Nats would make more sense as a nickname and given the massive social upheaval that never came, the NWBP have a very Britain-centric point of view. They are pro-Isolationism, as opposed to the Tories over zealous support for maintaining control of the Empire's colonial possessions. As a result, the NBWP puts into motion the thoughts of Self Determination for its colonies, while retaining exclusive trading rights of course.

As to the military. The Coup is known as the Colonels Coup, because it is lead by several Colonels who lead troops stationed in Britain against their officers. As a result what will become the Civil War, begins as a Mutiny. The news of the mutiny causes the younger people across Britain to riot, with rumors of a re-deployment to India in the works. The Nats and their supporters, join the riots, looting and firebombing Synagouges, attacking Jewish neighborhoods.

Also in regards to the original Jewish population, they are small. But they do populate very quickly and create over the next couple of generations, a large group of people spread over the British Isles, including a small minority in Northern Ireland. They become the backbone of the Labour Party, along with the Scottish base. As a result when the Military sways towards the mutineers, who have a clear goal. As to the monarch. The Queen is not present as the monarch. ITTL, Edward the Eighth remains on the throne and is a controversial figure. He is also supportive of the NBWP, although largely critical of the withdrawal from India, which is why when the Colonels announce their intentions it is the Monarchs support for them that is quickly attempted to cover up. As a result the Tories, along with the Military rebels go against the Nat government and the Military who side with the Government. The Liberals, will make a comeback, and I am liking more and more the idea of a Battle of Birmingham. Thanks for the idea.

As to Clement Attlee, that was meant to say Labour.

And finally, how have you liked the TL other then that?

[Biggles]

Ah, if it's Edward on the throne then that explains everything

I'd have thought the Jewish immigrants would have settled around the existing British Jewish communities but yeah, I think what you've got is quite plausible though as xenophobia doesn't really depend on facts - at the last election I remember a poll that the top concern of one constituency, which was probably the whitest in the country, was immigration.

Scotland and Wales and immigrant communities sound like a reasonable base for Labour, though I'm not sure how that would then lead to a coalition with the Nats if they depend on the immigrant vote.

Certain parts of the big cities, Cornwall, Devon and the Scottish islands would all be likely Liberal strongholds.

I'm also a bit curious as to how much of the welfare state Atlee would have been able to create to be honest but I imagine there would be less impetus for it without the nation having just come through WW2.

To answer your question, I'm quite enjoying the TL. It's certainly a very interesting possibility to consider.

[Enigmajones]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Ah, if it's Edward on the throne then that explains everything

I'd have thought the Jewish immigrants would have settled around the existing British Jewish communities but yeah, I think what you've got is quite plausible though as xenophobia doesn't really depend on facts - at the last election I remember a poll that the top concern of one constituency, which was probably the whitest in the country, was immigration.

Scotland and Wales and immigrant communities sound like a reasonable base for Labour, though I'm not sure how that would then lead to a coalition with the Nats if they depend on the immigrant vote.

Certain parts of the big cities, Cornwall, Devon and the Scottish islands would all be likely Liberal strongholds.

I'm also a bit curious as to how much of the welfare state Atlee would have been able to create to be honest but I imagine there would be less impetus
for it without the nation having just come through WW2.

To answer your question, I'm quite enjoying the TL. It's certainly a very interesting possibility to consider.

Thanks for the speedy response. Labour aligns with the Nats entirely out of necessity. The Nats are the only way for the Labour to help break the Torie hold on power. So they ally with them. They will break with the Nats at some point probably, Im still working out how the war will work out. One of the things I've been thinking the most about, is how Northern Ireland will be affected.

As to Attlee, he tries his hardest to push for legislation but when the Danzig War starts followed shortly by the Third Balkans War, he loses in the Special Election called to deal with it.

[Biggles]

With regards to northern ireland, its politics have always been dominated by unionists versus irish nationalists. I imagine that in the event of civil war in Britain then either Ireland might attempt to take control of the entirety of it or, if they didn't, you'd just have all out war between the ulster paramilitaries and the IRA which would probably continue until either Britain or Ireland (probably Britain as Ireland likely wouldn't act unless they were certain the British wouldn't retaliate) stepped in to end it.

[Enigmajones]

Oh all right. The IRA was very weak in the 50's but in this ATL I guess I can have them make an early comeback. Who would the Unionists side with though? The Tories or the NBWP-Labour?

[Biggles]

It might not be the IRA per se but irish nationalist militias would still have been active. My guess would be that the unionists would be too busy fighting the nationalists to care too much about what was happening in the UK and would side with whichever faction won the civil war and wouldn't let northern ireland become part of the irish republic.

[Enigmajones]

Originally Posted by Biggles

It might not be the IRA per se but irish nationalist militias would still have been active. My guess would be that the unionists would be too busy fighting the nationalists to care too much about what was happening in the UK and would side with whichever faction won the civil war and wouldn't let northern ireland become part of the irish republic.

Fair point. I'll try to work on a post in a few.

[Enigmajones]

1960- The Oriental Express to Hell
When the Empire of Japan declared war on the USSR in 1959, it did so in the face of mounting internal and international pressure to do so. When the Emperor Tensho died in 1953 of tuberculosis, his brother, the Prince Takamatsu, was crowned as Emperor Shouhei. Shouhei, like his brother, was an anglophile and interested in increasing ties to the west. However, unlike his brother, Shouhei was far more interested in a closer relationship with the United States, not the United Kingdom. In 1955, the Emperor Shouhei met with President Earl Warren in Honolulu and signed the Pacific Ocean Peace Pact (POPP), which essentially stated that Japanese and American military would agree to an alliance in regards to the Pacific Ocean. That was the official reason at least. One of the men who accompanied the Emperor to Hawaii was General Sadao Araki, who met with American military personnel to discuss what their response would be to a Japanese attack on the USSR.

The US made clear that while they would not openly support Japan, they would definitely assist in the way of arms and support should the Japanese attack. Ever since the France Administration, America had swung towards an anti-Soviet policy, following the precedent set by the Dewey Administration. When the World War broke out in 1956, the United States began to benefit from selling arms to all sides, including the Soviets. However, in 1958, President Warren ordered American companies to cease weapon sales to the USSR. This resulted in a diplomatic break with the United States. Little did the USSR know that this would precipitate the opening of hostilities with Japan. This is considered why Tukhachevsky was caught off guard by the Japanese attack. The attack was lead by General Araki, who was credited with the quick campaign to Irkutsk. However, a large portion of the Japanese strategy was based on the ability of the Germans to capture Leningrad and push forward on all fronts. Without this, the Japanese were forced to draft even more men and place them at important intervals throughout the "occupied" territory. The majority of the men who would end up with these assignments were Koreans, who had been drafted from the Kingdom's populace. This is not to say that there were no Japanese, but the records do show that a large portion of those set to garrison the important towns throughout the Soviet Far East were Korean. In Irkutsk, General Araki had ordered his men to wait during the winter, hoping to begin the assault in Spring. However, he had underestimated the harshness of Siberian winter and the refusal of the locals to recognize defeat.

The supply line from Vladivostok to Irkutsk was long and fragile. It was also filled with partisans who were attempting to dislodge their foreign occupiers. These partisans would make daily and nightly raids on Japanese held positions and casualties began to rise, as Chinese soldiers would be found dead, from either the cold, hunger or a bullet to the head. Many soldiers would fear leaving their trenches, which had been built in huge numbers surrounding the city and the occupied area, and instead would defecate on themselves. Stories like these were often circulated, insisting that if any Chinese, Korean or Japanese man was caught alone, the Russians would skin him alive and leave his pelt nailed to a tree. These horror stories quickly became propagated thanks to the tactics of NKVD agents who had penetrated the long front. In fact, the NKVD was heavily involved in training the partisans and there was an NKVD agent assigned to each partisan group. This was considered the first step in the Soviets plan. General Gregory Zhukov, famed for his role in defeating the Antonovschina, was assigned an Army group to deal with the invasion. According to the Red Army generals, the Japanese would be taken care of when the Germans had been defeated. Until that point, the USSR would move with scare tactics.

It was with this in mind that Zhukov mobilized his force to move against the Japanese while the winter remained. He made his attack in March overwhelming the small force that Araki had stationed at Bratsk, and set up his headquarters in the small city. His plan was to attack Irkutsk just before the end of winter, all the while beginning skirmishes with the local Japanese force. Most of the troops the Soviets encountered were Chinese and poorly trained. The capture of POW's was common and a plan to convert the captured POW's into Soviet troops actually had a high success rate, with large amounts of Chinese soldiers disillusioned over the reason for them being in Siberia. The Chinese who did switch sides became branded as traitors on home front by the Beijing government, with their families having to pay a heavy "Traitor Tax" which if not payed would result in forced labor.

The soldiers were not the only ones who were becoming disillusioned. On the home front, China was rapidly descending into chaos. With the capture of Xi'an, the Beijing government had hoped to quash any Strasserist behavior, but instead the ideology had spread like wildfire, with its adherents joining anti-government militias across the countryside, primarily in the South and West. Famine broke out in China as the demands to feed the army became overwhelming, and as the Chinese continued to send shipments of food to Japan, where food shortages and government rationing was proving insufficient to feed the people. In Korea, food shortages and a rising death toll in the Far East lead to public shows of defiance to the government, with people marching in the streets of Gyeongseong and Heijo, protesting the war and calling for greater autonomy. These calls were met with bullets, after King Yi Geon ordered the Korean Army to disperse the traitors. This caused endless unrest in Korea, which added onto the situation in China and the growing dissatification in Japan to make the war ever more of a quagmire. The shit really hit the fan when the Soviets launched their attack on Irkutsk, accompanied with the assassination of the Japanese High Command, which ended in a complete retreat by the Japanese, initially out of the city and then back towards Vladivostok. The army reformed with the surviving officers regrouping in Baykalsk, but the damage had been done. When news of Irkutsk reached East Asia, the Beijing government faced its first serious challenge from the formation of National Peoples Republic of China in Guangzhou, under a coalition of Strasserists, KMT and Communists. As winter turned to Spring, the Russians would advance against a seemingly incapable Japanese force, recapturing Vladivostok in September of 1960. Although the Empire of Japan would never officially admit defeat, the war in the Russian Far East was over, as Korea, China and Japan erupted into unrest and rebellion.

[Life In Black]

Nice update. What's Finland's take on all of this?

[Enigmajones]

Originally Posted by Life In Black

Nice update. What's Finland's take on all of this?

They are currently under Soviet Invasion, even if that front has gone mostly quiet. I'll do a post on Europe tomorrow.