The Partitioning of Hawaii

The Kiat · Sep 4, 2011

Ok, the Samoan Islands were divided between the Americans and the Germans.
St. Martin (a lone island) is divided between the French and the Dutch.

Is there any reason the Hawaiian Islands could not have been divided between colonial powers. For example: between Britain and France, or Britain and the United States? And for a post-colonial world, would they still be colonies or would there be a Kingdom of Hawaii modeled after the British system and a Republic of Kauai (or Oahu, or Maui) based on French Republicanism?

How would this partition impact 20th Century history in the Pacific? A divided Hawaii is something else I'd like to tackle.

naraht · Sep 4, 2011

The Kiat said:
Ok, the Samoan Islands were divided between the Americans and the Germans.
St. Martin (a lone island) is divided between the French and the Dutch.

Is there any reason the Hawaiian Islands could not have been divided between colonial powers. For example: between Britain and France, or Britain and the United States? And for a post-colonial world, would they still be colonies or would there be a Kingdom of Hawaii modeled after the British system and a Republic of Kauai (or Oahu, or Maui) based on French Republicanism?

How would this partition impact 20th Century history in the Pacific? A divided Hawaii is something else I'd like to tackle.

I think fairly quickly you have to decide which of the two possible scenarios you have.
1) Oahu and more specifically the south shore (which contains both Pearl and Honolulu harbor) are split between the two Colonial Powers)
2) One power gets Oahu and the other power has to create/dredge out a harbor which is going to be massively inferior to Pearl/Honolulu

Note that 2) could be as asymetrical as one power getting Midway and the other getting the rest of the chain...

Fenrir_Angerboda · Sep 4, 2011

Keeping them separate would be a good start.

the relative Isolation of Kauai and Ni'ihau is useful, Hawaii/Big Island was a group of fractured Kingdoms, and Oahu/maui/Molokai and Co could fracture fairly easily.

Once they're Unified that makes it harder, but not impossible.

The Kiat · Sep 4, 2011

naraht said:
1) Oahu and more specifically the south shore (which contains both Pearl and Honolulu harbor) are split between the two Colonial Powers)

You mean a east-west spilt; somebody getting Pearl Harbor, and somebody else Honolulu? I can't imagine why anybody would want the northern part in a north-south split. Pearl seems to be the pearl of the island chain. Now what would the other islands have to offer, aside from lots of sugar and pineapple? I think Maui and Hawaii have decent harbors, though not as good as Oahu.

Whalers paid a few visits to the islands too, not sure if that would be remotely relevant in partition.

The Kiat · Sep 4, 2011

Fenrir_Angerboda said:
Keeping them separate would be a good start.

the relative Isolation of Kauai and Ni'ihau is useful, Hawaii/Big Island was a group of fractured Kingdoms, and Oahu/maui/Molokai and Co could fracture fairly easily.

Once they're Unified that makes it harder, but not impossible.

Yes, Kauai, they really resisted Kamehameha. And I think they had some contact with the Russians. Kauai and Ni'ihau = Russian Hawaii?

And then when the Protestants convinced the king to outlaw Catholicism, that could bring in the French. Actually it did, but Kame. III made a deal with them, Edict of Tolerance.

And, you can probably tell by the Hawaiian flag that they had a little bit of contact with the British as well. Of course the Americans and the Japanese are going to want a piece of the pie. The Japanese would probably be shut out.

Kauai = Russian
Oahu = British
Maui = French or American
Hawaii = American or French

An interesting mixed-up combination. Maybe just an Anglo-Russian partition.

naraht · Sep 4, 2011

The Kiat said:
Kauai = Russian
An interesting mixed-up combination. Maybe just an Anglo-Russian partition.

I don't believe that IOTL the Russians had any conquests/colonies more than 200 miles from Continental Russia.

Heck, I honestly believe that it is easier to write a TL where the Russians end up with no non-arctic ocean ports than one where the Russian control Hawaii... (and yes, that includes no Kamchatka, though I have no idea who gets it)

Elfwine · Sep 4, 2011

naraht said:
I don't believe that IOTL the Russians had any conquests/colonies more than 200 miles from Continental Russia.

Heck, I honestly believe that it is easier to write a TL where the Russians end up with no non-arctic ocean ports than one where the Russian control Hawaii... (and yes, that includes no Kamchatka, though I have no idea who gets it)

Some presence in California. And practically speaking Alaska is further than that away from Continental Russia.

wilcoxchar · Sep 4, 2011

naraht said:
I don't believe that IOTL the Russians had any conquests/colonies more than 200 miles from Continental Russia.

Heck, I honestly believe that it is easier to write a TL where the Russians end up with no non-arctic ocean ports than one where the Russian control Hawaii... (and yes, that includes no Kamchatka, though I have no idea who gets it)

The Russians actually had a fort in Kaua'i in OTL that was built by the Russian American Company in the late 18th century.

Fenrir_Angerboda · Sep 4, 2011

The Kiat said:
Yes, Kauai, they really resisted Kamehameha. And I think they had some contact with the Russians. Kauai and Ni'ihau = Russian Hawaii?

technically, that briefly happened.
no one recognized it, and it was a dead end.

and the Russian who did it cause the company to lose more money that it was worth, so getting a more competent person sent might help.

And, you can probably tell by the Hawaiian flag that they had a little bit of contact with the British as well. Of course the Americans and the Japanese are going to want a piece of the pie. The Japanese would probably be shut out.

Depends when the Partition happens.
if it's early enough, Japan isn't going to be in any shape to do so.

Kauai = Russian
Oahu = British
Maui = French or American
Hawaii = American or French

An interesting mixed-up combination. Maybe just an Anglo-Russian partition.

depending on when it happens Who ever gets Maui would also get Lanai, Molokai, and Kaho'olawe.

The Kiat · Sep 4, 2011

naraht said:
I don't believe that IOTL the Russians had any conquests/colonies more than 200 miles from Continental Russia.

Heck, I honestly believe that it is easier to write a TL where the Russians end up with no non-arctic ocean ports than one where the Russian control Hawaii... (and yes, that includes no Kamchatka, though I have no idea who gets it)

Elfwine said:
Some presence in California. And practically speaking Alaska is further than that away from Continental Russia.

wilcoxchar said:
The Russians actually had a fort in Kaua'i in OTL that was built by the Russian American Company in the late 18th century.

Yes, I was thinking about that Russian fort, and how having a greater Russian presence (and perhaps an actual navy in the Pacific-- or at least a squadron of something) might play out. Kauai can use Russo-American support in resisting Kamehameha.

Maybe I could try a PoD when the unification of Hawaii (the actual island, not the whole chain) took longer, thus slowing Hawaii's advance on the other islands. Guess that means there won't be that epic battle on Oahu (I forget the name), the one where the painting shows Hawaiian soldiers driving Oahuans off a cliff.

The Kiat · Sep 4, 2011

Fenrir_Angerboda said:
Depends when the Partition happens.
if it's early enough, Japan isn't going to be in any shape to do so.

When is a good question. If I wanted to keep the Americans out, then it'd have to be before the 1850s. That certainly omits the Nihon-jin. I wonder how tolerant of Japanese immigrants the British or Russians in Hawaii would be.

Fenrir_Angerboda · Sep 5, 2011

The Kiat said:
Maybe I could try a PoD when the unification of Hawaii (the actual island, not the whole chain) took longer, thus slowing Hawaii's advance on the other islands. Guess that means there won't be that epic battle on Oahu (I forget the name), the one where the painting shows Hawaiian soldiers driving Oahuans off a cliff.

No Kamehameha would be an easier POD.

He was born under Haley's Comet, which according to a Kahuna was the sign that he would be a "Killer of Chiefs".

Alapaʻinuiakauaua, the head chief Ordered the Infant Kamehameha Killed, but his Birth Parents were able to give him to another noble and they escaped.

I'm not saying someone else couldn't rise up and try to unify the Islands, but Kamehameha is probably the most Important.

The Kiat said:
When is a good question. If I wanted to keep the Americans out, then it'd have to be before the 1850s. That certainly omits the Nihon-jin. I wonder how tolerant of Japanese immigrants the British or Russians in Hawaii would be.

Assuming they Come at all.

Given the different circumstances, even if the Sugar plantations pop up, I would think the British would send a mix of Englishmen and maybe Indians, and the Russians would probably send trouble makers.

The Kiat · Sep 5, 2011

How's this for starters? Kamahemahe dies as a result of disease. Oh, and Cook escapes too. I can't have a nice simple PoD, now can I?

1) Contact

In early 1778, a British expedition under the command of James Cook stumbled upon a previously unknown chain of islands. In truth, Cook was surprised to find such islands so far north in the Pacific Ocean. He named the chain the Sandwich Islands, but they are known better by their native name: Hawaii. Cook landed first on the island of Kauai, and then proceeded to follow the chain to the south and west. He returned to the islands early the next year, stopping off at Kealakekua Bay in the district known as Kona.

Chief Kalani, ruler of Kona, met with Cook on board the Resolution. Facts about the meeting are muddled in history. What happened after Cook left was important. Kalani was struck by disease, as were all those who accompanied him on board the British vessel. Many died, including his cousin Kamahemahe. From the chief, the disease spread across Kona. Cook was blamed for the sickness, with many priests insisting he brought a curse down upon them. When cook returned a month later to repair damage to his ship sustained during a storm, the reception was less than hospitable. Cook had hoped to trade with the natives, instead he barely escape the island with his life. The attack forced Cook to sail northwest, making landfall on Maui.

Here, the ‘King of Maui’ as Cook styled him, Kahekili II proved a far more hospitable host. Illness was on Maui, brought from trade with Hawaii. The Maui King had a great deal of interest in the British, and especially the ships. With ships like the Resolution, he could hope to crush the kingdoms on Hawaii. Should any one of those kingdoms grow to dominate the island, they could sweep across the archipelago, bringing all of Hawaii under one ruler.

Upon completing repair to his ship, Cook departed the Sandwich Islands, with a report of a rich paradise in the middle of the ocean, as well as an ideal port of call for transoceanic voyages. Maui would receive favorable mention, and would be a port of call in Cook’s Fourth Voyage. Hawaii would be mentioned as well, but less favorably.

The Kiat · Sep 6, 2011

2) House of Kiwala’o

A year following contact with the strange outsides, King Kiwala’o attempts to reunify the island and claim the title of Ali’i Aimoku of Hawaii, vacant for four decades. With sheer numbers, Kiwala’o managed to defeat Keawemauhili in March of 1794. The Battle at Waipio Valley, Kiwala’o lost many soldiers, so many so that he had to withdraw from the campaign for more than a year. Kiwala’o attempted to find allies in Maui, but the King of Maui had no interest in a fight for the Big Island. If anything, he worried that the island would be unified under one King, and then turn on his own domain.

Attempts to land on Maui were repelled, partly thanks to British advisors that arrived in 1792. The Kingdom of Maui was learning from the newcomers, not only how to build mighty ships, but the tactics of warfare prevailing in Europe. Kiwala’o’s native tactics were unsuccessful in forcing Maui to aid him. If anything, he lost more on the landing than he could hope to gain. Kiwala’o retreated across the Maui Strait to Kona, to prepare for another campaign to unify the island.

By 1797, Kiwala’o defeated all his opponents, with the exception of Keoua Kuahuula, the King of Kohala. Kohalan and Hawaiian armies met in battle near Kilauea Volcano. The results of the battle were less than stellar. Overall, the forces of Kiwala’o carried the day. However, Kiwala’o did not live to see victory, as he was killed in combat on the slopes of the volcano. Keoua’s forces were battered bad enough that he was forced to end any designs he might have had on Hilo. Thus, in the Year 1800, the island of Hawaii found itself divided into two Kingdoms; that of Hawaii (Kona-Kau & Hilo) in the south and east and that of Kohala in the north. Any dreams of uniting the whole island chain died with Kiwala’o. By the time his heirs were strong enough to pick up his mantle of unification, the outsiders had returned in force.

The Gunrunner Rimbaud · Sep 6, 2011

The Kiat said:
Yes, I was thinking about that Russian fort, and how having a greater Russian presence (and perhaps an actual navy in the Pacific-- or at least a squadron of something) might play out. Kauai can use Russo-American support in resisting Kamehameha.

Maybe I could try a PoD when the unification of Hawaii (the actual island, not the whole chain) took longer, thus slowing Hawaii's advance on the other islands. Guess that means there won't be that epic battle on Oahu (I forget the name), the one where the painting shows Hawaiian soldiers driving Oahuans off a cliff.

Just a quibble, the troops being driven off the cliff were technically under the command of the descendants of Maui chiefs. Maui had conquered Oahu earlier and more or less killed off the native ruling class there.

Also, more important than any battle is disease. OTL the reason why Kamehameha didn't take Kaua'i was the fact that a probable typhoid outbreak wiped out the bulk of his troops as they were massing for invasion.

After Kamehameha died, the Kaua'i chiefs attempted to break free again, but failed and lost most of their land and privileges. There is some historical irony though, in that the legitimate descendants of Kamehameha line and the Big Island chiefly lines all died out whereas the descendants of Kaumuali'i, last king of Kaua'i are the closest legitimate holders of the Hawaiian crown now. Not that they want it. They all married into missionary families.

Splitting up the islands might be best for the Hawaiian people as a whole, though. Part of the reason why they didn't bounce back as well as other Polynesian peoples is partially due to the establishment of Honolulu as a large urban center. It drained the countryside of people, and acted as a giant population sink, due to the fact that it wasn't a very healthy place to live until the 1900s. It's part of the reason why they had to import labor wholesale. There just wasn't enough people to work plantations or ranches out in the boonies, and the few Hawaiians they could get often left due to better wages and working conditions in Honolulu.

It's actually pretty sad to look at the archeological history of the city. There are mass graves with thousands of people in them just from the smallpox epidemic in the 1850s. They're under a Walmart and boutique shopping center now. And people wonder why Hawaiians get tetchy about things.

David S Poepoe · Sep 6, 2011

The Kiat said:
He named the chain the Sandwich Islands, but they are known better by their native name: Hawaii.

The ancient Hawaiians, IIRC, didn't have a name for their island chain - and it certainly wasn't Hawaii.

The Kiat · Sep 6, 2011

David S Poepoe said:
The ancient Hawaiians, IIRC, didn't have a name for their island chain - and it certainly wasn't Hawaii.

Well, I happen to think the Sandwich Islands is a totally dorky name. Besides, everybody knows Hawaii when they hear it. I just need something to call all the islands.

Sven · Sep 6, 2011

The Kiat said:
Kohalan and Hawaiian armies met in battle near Kilauea Volcano.

This seems a random place for a battle between these two parties: isn't Kilauea deep in "Hawaiian" territory? Does this mean Keoua was leading an invasion into "Hawaii"?

Fenrir_Angerboda · Sep 6, 2011

Sven said:
This seems a random place for a battle between these two parties: isn't Kilauea deep in "Hawaiian" territory? Does this mean Keoua was leading an invasion into "Hawaii"?

Kilauea is on the South-east side of the Big Island.

If I'm reading this right, that means either Keoua was forced halfway across the island, or that the Invaders are starting from the south.

The Kiat · Sep 6, 2011

Fenrir_Angerboda said:
Kilauea is on the South-east side of the Big Island.

If I'm reading this right, that means either Keoua was forced halfway across the island, or that the Invaders are starting from the south.

Wrong volcano. Should have been Mauna Kea.