Fallout UK: Any ideas?

Krall · Sep 3, 2011

Hullo!

About a month ago, the following exchange took place in the Map Thread:

Rule Britannia said:
[50sAMERICANACCENT] I have a challenge for you fine people, Fallout UK. [/50sAMERICANACCENT]

Krall said:
Consider your challenge accepted.

It's been a month, but I've got my laptop back, and I'm finally getting round to making the promised map. I've got some interesting ideas for what to do, but at the moment the location of certain states isn't definite, and there are some regions that I'm not 100% sure what to do with. So, I would like to ask you fine fellows: What would you have the British Isles in the Fallout universe be like?

I won't give out the ideas I've already got, due to the fact that it'd be a huge wall of text, that it would influence some people's ideas, and that it may discourage people from posting ideas for regions about which I have developed a lot of background.

So, yes, that's all this thread is really - I was just wondering whether any of you fellows had good ideas for what to do to the British Isles in the Fallout world.

Any ideas would be helpful, even if they're simple, vague, and not hugely detailed.

Thanks in advance!

TheGingerninja41 · Sep 3, 2011

I'm pretty sure the UK turned Facistic and Jingoist just like America did, mainly because of fears of the Eurofed. So the entire country should be obsessed with hating french, italians, germans, etc.

BlackWave · Sep 3, 2011

The Tenpenny guy was British, wasn't he? The fact that he was willing to move to a wasteland already inhabited by mutants and ghouls indicates that the British Isles, or Europe in general, isn't exactly in the best shape--probably already in some state of collapse due to the oil conflict. Therefore, I don't imagine there'd be as many established communities as in the United States. Although, to have fun, there could be people residing with the train tunnels under London a la Doctor Who, regressed to a troglodyte state for want of sunlight.

TheGingerninja41 · Sep 3, 2011

Just read the info in The Vault wiki, it gives you pretty much the entire history from 1945 to the end war

Krall · Sep 3, 2011

TheGingerninja41 said:
I'm pretty sure the UK turned Facistic and Jingoist just like America did, mainly because of fears of the Eurofed. So the entire country should be obsessed with hating french, italians, germans, etc.

As far as I know, Britain is the only country confirmed to be a member of the European Commonwealth in Fallout canon, so I'm not sure that would be the case. We Britons have always had something of an isolationist streak, but with the USSR still existing and the USA shunning Europe it seems like we would have better outlets than our fellow western Europeans.

BlackWave said:
The Tenpenny guy was British, wasn't he? The fact that he was willing to move to a wasteland already inhabited by mutants and ghouls indicates that the British Isles, or Europe in general, isn't exactly in the best shape--probably already in some state of collapse due to the oil conflict. Therefore, I don't imagine there'd be as many established communities as in the United States.

Yeah, I'm planning on Europe being a bit more messed up than most of the US. As for oil, the Fallout wiki seems to indicate that the European Commonwealth was dependent on oil from the Middle East, which eventually dried up, so I imagine oil is a thing of the past in most of Europe. Some of Europe may have transitioned to using nuclear power, but probably not to the extent that the US did, and definitely not enough to keep anything running smoothly after the war.

BlackWave said:
Although, to have fun, there could be people residing with the train tunnels under London a la Doctor Who, regressed to a troglodyte state for want of sunlight.

*Smacks forehead* People taking shelter in the London Metro was basically the first thing I thought of. Heck, there's more than the Metro under London - there are loads of structures down there, it's practically an underground city - but for some reason I never thought "What if the people never went above ground? What if they then adapted to the low-light conditions and COULDN'T go above ground?"!

One thing I do need is a good, British name (or set of names) for ghouls, since I doubt they'd call them by the same name that Americans do.

BlackWave · Sep 3, 2011

Krall said:
One thing I do need is a good, British name (or set of names) for ghouls, since I doubt they'd call them by the same name that Americans do.

I dunno, 'Ghoul' seems pretty universal and logical. I suppose sentient ghouls could be, I don't know, 'Old Grumpies' or something, on account of them being generally miserable, and feral ones could be 'Charings', on account of them being first seen at Charing Cross station, or something?

Krall · Sep 3, 2011

BlackWave said:
I dunno, 'Ghoul' seems pretty universal and logical. I suppose sentient ghouls could be, I don't know, 'Old Grumpies' or something, on account of them being generally miserable

I'd like to note that being generally miserable wouldn't really set them apart from most of the British populace, even before the nuclear apocalypse.

BlackWave said:
and feral ones could be 'Charings', on account of them being first seen at Charing Cross station, or something?

Well knowing how many names we have for "chavs", it's likely that we'd have several regional slangwords for ghouls, with one slang term becoming the accepted universal term due to use in the more populated/influential areas or through being accepted as the universal term by the media (not that there would be much nationwide media after the war).

jkarr · Sep 4, 2011

what about establishing british shelters in scotland...its logical as the scotish higland and midlands are pefect for burying byunkers under...id imagine it would be the place the royal family and goverment wouldve fled too...mabye a sort of british enclave situated in a scotish tribal zone rather than ghouls and mutants as much...

also look up the sites for the british continuinity of govermnet plans...like how theres a bunker under whitehall and another in whiltshire called "hawthorn" (otl)

also wales would be a good place...i doubt it got bombed much....everyone forgets about them...hell, none would notice if they fell into the sea

you could also bring back the medieval feudal type society...id imagine britian would regress quite a bit...the us had all that nuclear fusion tech and huge ass buildings, but we dont know alot about the uk or ec, so could assume they didnt have the massive structures as much to hide under...

another thing is, judging from the fact that their was a limited nuclear exhchabge in the reasource wars betweent the ec-middle east, you could have that effect britan...like british facism rise, destruction of cities with large ethinic populations prior to the bombs, then having those ethnicities group up and form their own city states after...when i say city i mean in the ruins or in rural communities, etc

and the fact that the ec broke up into quarreling states, you could have some other nationlities establish small towns over the south coast...like a french nation in near the isle of wight....some people leftover from the war between ec memebrs that got stuck there when the bombs fell

Krkrbs420 · Sep 4, 2011

You know, this may or may not be the same discussion but one thing I don't get is why the East Coast is so backwards and disunion compared to the West Coast that has a New California Republic that's pretty powerful along with a huge Caesars Legion's Empire?
Fallout 3 was beyond realistic to me considering that processed food after 200 years wouldn't even be eatable. It made sense in the first one though.

On topic--
London would probably of been directly nuked though, those Brits would of retaliate just like the first two world wars probably with no success though. But yeah it would be fun to wonder around London, if Big Ben still exist or the Bridge towers that would be cool. They should also have a post apocalyptic "Merry men" and "Robbing Hood"(a corrupt version of Robin Hood).

I'd also like to see hightech Long Bows, some equipped with mini nukes.

Krall · Sep 4, 2011

Krkrbs420 said:
You know, this may or may not be the same discussion but one thing I don't get is why the East Coast is so backwards and disunion compared to the West Coast that has a New California Republic that's pretty powerful along with a huge Caesars Legion's Empire?
Fallout 3 was beyond realistic to me considering that processed food after 200 years wouldn't even be eatable. It made sense in the first one though.

Now that you mention it, that does seem a little strange. Maybe the East Coast was nuked a great deal more, so all that's left are small, relatively isolated communities, whereas the West Coast wasn't targeted as much, and so managed to scrape through relatively intact?

Krkrbs420 said:
On topic--
London would probably of been directly nuked though, those Brits would of retaliate just like the first two world wars probably with no success though. But yeah it would be fun to wonder around London, if Big Ben still exist or the Bridge towers that would be cool. They should also have a post apocalyptic "Merry men" and "Robbing Hood"(a corrupt version of Robin Hood). I'd also like to see hightech Long Bows, some equipped with mini nukes.

I'm not sure whether bows would really be all that useful. I know Britain doesn't have a lot of guns compared to America, but there's still enough weapons left over from the police, army, rich folk, and farmers to go around.

Shotguns (specifically one unable to hold more than two cartridges, with no revolving cylinder or detachable magazine) are easiest to obtain under British law, as you only need one shotgun license to own as many shotguns as you can safely accommodate, whereas the Police need to be convinced you have a good reason to own any other legal firearms (mainly non-automatic rifles).

Taking a quick look at Wikipedia, apparently "shooting sports were popular in the late 19th and early 20th Century, especially fullbore rifle events sponsored by the military and NRA to improve the general standard of marksmanship under the auspices of Defence of the Realm.". It'd be cool if, prior to the Great War, the government reintroduced some of these programs, in order to increase the number of skilled firearms users, similar to laws requiring British men to practice with longbows every weekend during the Middle Ages.

Perhaps they would have also trained small groups of men as guerilla fighters, in order to harry any enemy that might invade or occupy Britain, like the units that were created during World War II. This might mean that the gun laws would be relaxed in order to allow members of these volunteer units to own rifles. Perhaps some of these volunteers became "ghouls", and to this day keep their rifles with them? Hmm...

I was also thinking about transport in the British Isles. A lack of oil means that most forms of motor transport are right out - apart from the few vehicles that were converted over to atomic power before the Great War - so what about horses? According to what I can find via Google there are roughly a million horses in the UK at the moment, a lot of those would die in a nuclear apocalypse, but afterwards their descendants (which may or may not have mutated to have two heads, like brahmin) could become used by farmers and merchants as beasts of burden; and by messengers, mercenaries, couriers, soldiers, etc. as mounts.

Thoughts?

LSCatilina · Sep 4, 2011

Krall said:
Now that you mention it, that does seem a little strange. Maybe the East Coast was nuked a great deal more, so all that's left are small, relatively isolated communities, whereas the West Coast wasn't targeted as much, and so managed to scrape through relatively intact?

More targeted (because it was the damned capital of USA afterall) indeed, but not only. According to the Vault, Washington D.C. and some other cities were less touched than many pre-war cities because of "their relative low explosives yields". If it seems more touched it's because there are more remains that in West Coast that was more targeted (and immediatly touched by chines missiles).

Furthermore, as the vaults opened more soon in Core Region, "recuperation" of old ruins for settlements (The Hub by exemple) surely "destroyed" some ruines.

At the contrary both because of more "late" Vault opening and to more ruins that blockade passage ways, CW inhabitants have to settle peripheric zones (hard to cultive maize in road and stone indeed ?)

I'm not sure whether bows would really be all that useful. I know Britain doesn't have a lot of guns compared to America, but there's still enough weapons left over from the police, army, rich folk, and farmers to go around.

Just two words : welsh - tribals

I was also thinking about transport in the British Isles. A lack of oil means that most forms of motor transport are right out - apart from the few vehicles that were converted over to atomic power before the Great War - so what about horses? According to what I can find via Google there are roughly a million horses in the UK at the moment, a lot of those would die in a nuclear apocalypse, but afterwards their descendants (which may or may not have mutated to have two heads, like brahmin) could become used by farmers and merchants as beasts of burden; and by messengers, mercenaries, couriers, soldiers, etc. as mounts.

Accordingly to the Vault, all horses died in FO-universe.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Krall · Sep 4, 2011

LSCatilina said:
Just two words : welsh - tribals

You want me to make Wales crawling with savage, semi-human raiders who are so removed from civilisation that they have descended into violent, nomadic tribes hooting orders in barely intelligible gibberish?

I guess what they say is true: "Wales. Wales never changes.".

LSCatilina said:
Accordingly to the Vault, all horses died in FO-universe.

Well it says that it's stated in Fallout Bible 8 that horses didn't survive, but all it says about horses surviving is "Nope.", with absolutely no explanation at all. Frankly, I don't consider that good enough to be canon.

LSCatilina · Sep 4, 2011

Krall said:
You want me to make Wales crawling with savage, semi-human raiders who are so removed from civilisation that they have descended into violent, nomadic tribes hooting orders in barely intelligible gibberish?

Hey, economic crisis had harsh consequences since Thatcher.

Well it says that it's stated in Fallout Bible 8 that horses didn't survive, but all it says about horses surviving is "Nope.", with absolutely no explanation at all. Frankly, I don't consider that good enough to be canon.

I think at the contrary that this simple statment is clear and lets little place to imagination.
On the other hand, it would be more easy to counter that if we had a goog explanation about all mutations in wastelands.

Besides the complete statement is "Nope. Some mules did (the poor mule killed by the raiders in F1), but not for long. Besides, I think that mule was a discrepancy."
Surviving british mules would be interesting.And mutated sheep for welsh tribals of course.

Tyr · Sep 4, 2011

Fallout is retro-futuristic, some kind of sci-fi 1950s world. Looking at modern Britain isn't really the thing to do. You need to be looking at really old classic TV from the days when the class system remained super strong and the poor knew their place.

I'd imagine the surviving enclavesque government would be some sort of monarchy led by the descendant of the Earl of the arse end of nowhere, 1252th in line for the throne. Led by stiff upper lip bowler hat wearing prim and proper sorts. With a underclass of cockneys.

The north of course needs some sort of flat cap socialist republic, largely descendants of folk who survived down the mines. Acutally rather powerful and with some genuine industrial might but due to their socialist form of government they have endless commitees and debates about everything so wind up not doing much.

Industry wise coal would remain king in this retro-futuristic Britain of course.

Krall · Sep 4, 2011

Tyr said:
Fallout is retro-futuristic, some kind of sci-fi 1950s world. Looking at modern Britain isn't really the thing to do. You need to be looking at really old classic TV from the days when the class system remained super strong and the poor knew their place.

I'd imagine the surviving enclavesque government would be some sort of monarchy led by the descendant of the Earl of the arse end of nowhere, 1252th in line for the throne. Led by stiff upper lip bowler hat wearing prim and proper sorts. With a underclass of cockneys.

The basic idea you've stated here is what I'm planning to do for the remnants of the British government, apart from two things:

1. The monarchy would be led by the descendant of the monarch - the royal family would definitely have some method of surviving the war.

2. No underclass of cockneys. There's an underclass, but I'm going to do something a bit... different with London.

Tyr said:
The north of course needs some sort of flat cap socialist republic, largely descendants of folk who survived down the mines. Acutally rather powerful and with some genuine industrial might but due to their socialist form of government they have endless commitees and debates about everything so wind up not doing much.

Suffice it to say that "T' Socialist Republic of Yorkshire" will be making it onto the map.

Tyr said:
Industry wise coal would remain king in this retro-futuristic Britain of course.

Hmm, I hadn't really considered coal. I suppose coal-fired power stations wouldn't be too hard to set up/renovate, and there might be some surviving coal-powered trains and ships that could be used. It also provides the surviving British government a good reason to invade Wales.

jkarr · Sep 4, 2011

Krall said:
Hmm, I hadn't really considered coal. I suppose coal-fired power stations wouldn't be too hard to set up/renovate, and there might be some surviving coal-powered trains and ships that could be used. It also provides the surviving British government a good reason to invade Wales.

but its unlikly thered still be large enough coal deposits...rember this is set in a world where oil has being used up....its likly coat went the same way...weve already hit our limits concering coal nowadays, in britan at least

Krall · Sep 4, 2011

jkarr said:
but its unlikly thered still be large enough coal deposits...rember this is set in a world where oil has being used up....its likly coat went the same way...weve already hit our limits concering coal nowadays, in britan at least

There would still be some coal deposits, and they wouldn't be fuelling the entirety of British industry in its prime - just what few factories remain and a small number of coal-powered ferries and trains.

I've been thinking about currency in the Fallout British Isles. Bottlecaps don't make much sense in Britain, and while the British government would presumably try to print their own money, I doubt a fiat currency would be widely accepted. Even if it was backed by gold, who wants gold in a post-apocalyptic wasteland?

I was thinking of having most of Britain have a barter economy, with no established currency, but with a basket of widely accepted and useful goods that are used like currency. These goods would include tea bags (of course), tinned food, potable water, ammunition, and so forth. Collectively these barterable goods would be referred to using slang terms for money, like "dosh", "lolly" or "wonga".

LSCatilina · Sep 4, 2011

Krall said:
The basic idea you've stated here is what I'm planning to do for the remnants of the British government, apart from two things:

1. The monarchy would be led by the descendant of the monarch - the royal family would definitely have some method of surviving the war

I can defenitivly see a ghoul monarch.

Flashman · Sep 4, 2011

But there would still surely be some coal.

I have my own idea for a nation:

When the bombs fell, men had been digging a mile underground to find iron ore. The mine was sealed up, with the entrance to the elevator shaft sealed. They sent hydraulic lifting gear up the elevator and tried to get the thing open. While they did this, a man established himself as "King Frederik of the depths" with his claim to power that he had tooken the rifles that were kept under lock and key, and a shotgun that he had brought down as he was the former director of the mine. He gave thirteen of the rifles to his most trusted friends and declared them dukes of different sections of the mine. He kept one of the rifles (Along with the shot gun) for him self, and gave the other six to men who would make sure no rebellions would occur.

He established his "palace" from his old office. With in was a safe, where he kept taxes and tribute of metal and pounds for further use of the depths, a grandfather clock, a window from which he could see men getting to work each day, and a book case, potted plants, a desk and of course a carpeted floor. The second section, what was once the meeting room, he put a couch from the office3 waiting room, and would sleep there. In the waiting room was a snack machine, a television in which they would play holotapes, a couch, several chairs, a couch, and some books and magazines.

In the waiting room subjects would plead to the king.

The mine was in the shape of half a sphere, with the miners in it. it was designed to hold a group of people for a while, as miners were meant to spend 20 days in the mine and 10 at home. There was a tower of offices that men would live in, a large cafeteria with a atomic fridge, a mini atomic engine to power the lights and other electrics, a cinema.

Eventually, men finished digging out, and came across a wasteland. King Frederik decided that the iron ore would be used to make swords and spears. He ripped unnecessary pipes and stuck spear heads on the end, made swords and gave his gaurds plenty of ammo. They went up the elevator, with king Frederik waiting nervously in the palace, and they set off to see what they could find. What they found was a police station, with riot guns and gear.

They armed themselves and took all the bootee they could carrie back to the king. They now had more ammo, and armor. They established an out post at the station.

Eventually the miners struck coal, and they decided to use it for the old diesel train that had been off line for years.

One day they struck a vault, and were able to get the door open. They offered the people a chance to join the kingdom. A civil war broke out in the vault, with the overseer wanting to stay independent and many of the people wanting to join the kingdom. Eventually the people who wanted to join The Depths won. They stuck they old overseers head on a spear and stuck it outside the super market under which the vault was built. They named the vault partly after the old overseer, and named it merchants paradise.

Eventually people from the surface would trade with the out post and merchants paradise, in exchange for food, money or weapons. Some people would decide to join the kingdom (For a price) and along with the women from the vault, children were being made.

now they rule much of the old Manchester underground and the military base and vault in the city. They are attempting to clear out the entire under ground, and make it safe. They trade from there link to the city, the subway stations. They trade with survivors, but many along with several of the stations, many of the tunnels have Mutts in them. They have iron gates made of scrap in order to stop ghouls and other things from charging into the trade outposts. They own the Royal trains line, a large steam powered train that carries merchants across the isles.

Not only have i solved transportation, i have made an awesome faction.

Flashman · Sep 4, 2011

Krall said:
There would still be some coal deposits, and they wouldn't be fuelling the entirety of British industry in its prime - just what few factories remain and a small number of coal-powered ferries and trains.

I've been thinking about currency in the Fallout British Isles. Bottlecaps don't make much sense in Britain, and while the British government would presumably try to print their own money, I doubt a fiat currency would be widely accepted. Even if it was backed by gold, who wants gold in a post-apocalyptic wasteland?

I was thinking of having most of Britain have a barter economy, with no established currency, but with a basket of widely accepted and useful goods that are used like currency. These goods would include tea bags (of course), tinned food, potable water, ammunition, and so forth. Collectively these barterable goods would be referred to using slang terms for money, like "dosh", "lolly" or "wonga".

I dont think a barter economy is good. Perhaps playing cards could be currency?