The 12:08 service to...

[Devvy]

Right....after some thinking this afternoon, I'm going to put this TL on a hiatus.

I'm running a little thin on ideas to keep this going at the moment, want to re-assess my ideas on "train wank-ness" in the light of above comments as I'd like to keep things at least sensibly plausible even if a little stretched.

At the moment, I don't really have much of a vision for what happens in 90s/00s bar privatisation not really happening (leaving BR maintaining the tracks and the sectors operating trains to satisfy EC rules).

I've put a note in my calendar for 3 months time (July 2012 time) to relook at this if I haven't already, so if someone is reading this as the last post in this thread in Autumn time, please poke me.

Plus I need a complete break from trains after the last 7-8 months!

[JN1]

Sorry to hear that because I really enjoy this TL. Makes a real change from reading and writing about nuclear war.

[Ogrebear]

I'll make a calendar note to check in!

[Devvy]

London Newspaper clipping
April 1993

London Heathrow Rail Link opens


The new signs at London Heathrow Central station

The long awaited rail link connecting London Heathrow Airport to central London has finally opened. Fate has not shone particularly brightly on this new link, following the Government's freeze on rail spending 3 years ago, and then tunnelling collapses during construction, but BR eventually finished the link. Trains will run from London St Pancras, calling at West Hampstead and Ealing Broadway, before running into the two new stations serving Heathrow Central (for Terminals 1, 2 & 3) and the new Heathrow Terminal 4.

"A great new service for London"

BR spokemen were eager to play up the advantages of the new link yesterday during the link's opening, despite widespread comments that the train service should run to it's "natural" terminus at London Paddington. BR have widely ignored this opinion, stating that the large train congestion at Paddington resulting from it "...serving two main lines which do not leave enough platform capacity. In any case, the interchange point at West Hampstead allows further connections to be made, especially to travellers from north and south London using Thameslink West."

Heathrow user, Sharon DeLeyser, commented however "I wish that London Underground had extended their line from Hounslow to Heathrow - it would of been far easier for residents in south and western London. It's a pity that BR and politicians never listen to the public."

The Heathrow link service will run 3 times per hour between St Pancras and Heathrow, with the frequency increasing later in the year.

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Notes: AND WE ARE BACK IN BUSINESS

So the Heathrow Link (OTL: Heathrow Express/Connect) is up and running. Comments made to the Government's slashing of rail funding and tunnelling problems during construction (as per OTL). It's taken 4 years for construction of this, and completed 5 years earlier then OTL.

Also as a note for people that may of missed the relevant comments way back in this thread, the OTL Terminal 4 was never built, this TL Terminal 4 is basically an earlier version of OTL Terminal 5. The rail link is build pretty much as per OTL (obviously without the OTL Terminal 4 branch though!), so the rail link is in line for a station for a possible Terminal 5/6 if it's built (OTL Terminal 5/Third Runway debate).

I'm in the midst of draft writing about the possible privatisation of BR.

PS. I almost uploaded that picture unedited - the original version had the yellow poster to the right fully visible which is a Vodafone advert. Probably a little early for Vodafone....

[The Oncoming Storm]

Great to see this going again!

[JN1]

Good to see this back.

I'm in the midst of draft writing about the possible privatisation of BR.

To paraphrase the cast of Grange Hill: 'just say no'.

EDIT: Racal launched Vodafone on 1st January 1985, and it was de-merged as Vodafone Group in September 1991, as so maybe not too early.
Between them Vodafone and BT Cellnet (now O2) helped the UK to lead the mobile phone market, even dominating in the US, but that's another story.

[Devvy]

God I hated Grange Hill. But anyhoooo - wasn't BT Cellnet One2One first? I know my first phone was with One2One years ago. I can't remember who they were or became though.

[The Oncoming Storm]

I think they became T-Mobile

[El Pip]

First off, good to see this one back. And now for a question or two.

St Pancras? Really? Via West Hampstead? I'd love to see that route in detail because I think it's going to just be horrific. Best I can work out the link from the country's major international airport to the capital is via some of the nastiest, cobbled together, mixed-electrification, already over congested suburban lines in London AND also use the GWML between the Heathrow turn and Ealing Broadway, so wont even save any meaningful Paddington capacity.

Unless I'm missing something that looks a lot like the kind of decision that is going to get BR privatised to stop them doing anything like that again!

Also with does anybody really think they can get away with three trains an hour to Heathrow? That's half the OTL level of rail service and of course TTL there's no Picc Line to Heathrow, so things will be even worse. I'm picturing the M4 near Heathrow being utterly solid for days on end with queues stretching back to South Wales, though of course it could be worse than that...

I'm also wondering about what things look like under Heathrow with no need to go to the south of the site (as TTL T4 is out west like the OTL T5), certainly going to be different from OTL, may considerably different depending on how BR want the service to run. But that might be a bit too much detail.

[iainbhx]

Originally Posted by El Pip

First off, good to see this one back. And now for a question or two.

St Pancras? Really? Via West Hampstead? I'd love to see that route in detail because I think it's going to just be horrific. Best I can work out the link from the country's major international airport to the capital is via some of the nastiest, cobbled together, mixed-electrification, already over congested suburban lines in London AND also use the GWML between the Heathrow turn and Ealing Broadway, so wont even save any meaningful Paddington capacity.

Norf Lunnon Line via West Hampstead and Willesden Junction, innit, joining the GW just short of Acton Mainline.

[Devvy]

Originally Posted by El Pip

First off, good to see this one back. And now for a question or two.

St Pancras? Really? Via West Hampstead? I'd love to see that route in detail because I think it's going to just be horrific. Best I can work out the link from the country's major international airport to the capital is via some of the nastiest, cobbled together, mixed-electrification, already over congested suburban lines in London AND also use the GWML between the Heathrow turn and Ealing Broadway, so wont even save any meaningful Paddington capacity.

Unless I'm missing something that looks a lot like the kind of decision that is going to get BR privatised to stop them doing anything like that again!

Also with does anybody really think they can get away with three trains an hour to Heathrow? That's half the OTL level of rail service and of course TTL there's no Picc Line to Heathrow, so things will be even worse. I'm picturing the M4 near Heathrow being utterly solid for days on end with queues stretching back to South Wales, though of course it could be worse than that...

I'm also wondering about what things look like under Heathrow with no need to go to the south of the site (as TTL T4 is out west like the OTL T5), certainly going to be different from OTL, may considerably different depending on how BR want the service to run. But that might be a bit too much detail.

Well, the Dudding Hill Line isn't that bad. It's double track all the way, and isn't subjected to many (if any) bridges over it, so is easy to electrify as few trains use it prior to Heathrow Link. (EDIT: Apologies if it appeared I was suggesting the North London Line, which as you say is well used by commuter trains and freight trains OTL. I'm suggesting the Dudding Hill Line which is hardly used at all, therefore easy to sort).

Also, I've mentioned a few times about Paddington being overflowing with terminating trains. I can't see a way to terminate Heathrow services at Paddington without a large retcon. GCML Intercity services still use Paddington. They can't be diverted to Marylebone without fubaring NSE services as Marylebone is only 4 platforms. St Pancras has plenty of capacity.

OTL, Paddington to Heathrow Central is 15 minutes. I'd estimate going to St Pancras would be somewhere around 25 minutes with the 2 stops. That's a rough estimate, don't shoot me! OTL Heathrow Connect takes 30 minutes, but is still full of airport users, so it's clearly still an attractive service. Also...for the City/CWharf airport users, you'd easily save those extra 10 minutes by using St Pancras instead of Paddington.

Also, OTL Heathrow services were only 4tph for the first 7 years of operation - Heathrow Connect only started in mid 2000s-ish if I remember right. So this TL 3tph vs OTL 4 tph. Not much difference in 15 or 20 minute intervals to start with.

I'd like to think the service will immediately prove popular, and thus encourage BR to swiftly increase the frequency to maybe 4 or 5tph. Might be able to squeeze in a 5tph service in the 90s. I'd like to also quickly extend it the link to Staines later.

[Devvy]

PPS: Just found this.

http://web.archive.org/web/200910271.../tpftla_h.html

OTL, BAA apparently seriously considered St Pancras along the route I've used here.

PPPS(!):

Just to note, re: Paddington capacity. Paddington serves GCML Intercity services. Heathrow services from Heathrow to the Dudding Hill Line would not tough GCML services from Paddington to the NNL/GCML junction, so services could be conveniently intertwined

[El Pip]

The Dudding Hill Line, I must admit I had assumed it was Norf Landan Line. Mind you I'd assumed that as the Dudding Hill Line doesn't just need electrification it needs re-signalling, significant re-building and probably some major works on bomb shelters in the embankment to stabilise them for high speed running. Or you could stick with a 30mph speed restriction and skip some of those works, but it would make the name 'Express' seem a bit silly.

I can see the problem at Paddington, but given the costs of all the works on the DHL you could probably easily pay for fitting a couple of extra platforms in at Paddington in the gap north of the site between the station and the canal. That's the bit OTL Crossrail are using, but looking at TTL Crossrail it would be bugger all use to them so could be used for some new HEx platforms (or just shuffling everyone along and putting HEx in the main building)

The OTL frequency was low, because the Picc line existed. It doesn't TTL so the only realistic public transport option is the trains. Honestly I really, really struggle with that. I cannot see a T5-esque terminal being allowed with such poor transport links in place and such a low frequency.

Planing an Airtrack style link to Staines? Whatever did the motorists of West London do to you to deserve this treament?! Not content with making the roads around Heathrow solid due to lack of proper transport links, you also want to put in a scheme that has every level crossing in the region set to 'train' for 50 mins out of every hour. Your a cruel man sir, very cruel. ( )

Finally just a curiousity, where is the depot for HEx. OTL was Old Oak Common, but as that's not on the existing route it would be just a bit inconvenient for trains to use it. I can't see any convenient ones elsewhere on the route so I'm guessing a brand new build somewhere out near Heathrow? All extra expense, money that could have been put towards the Paddington re-development instead....

[GrayAnderson]

I'm just going to take a guess, but I'm suspecting that there are going to be lots and lots of grade separations under active consideration at this rate.

Well, either that or a big push for more local transit lines to clear up the traffic mess...

[Devvy]

Originally Posted by El Pip

The Dudding Hill Line, I must admit I had assumed it was Norf Landan Line. Mind you I'd assumed that as the Dudding Hill Line doesn't just need electrification it needs re-signalling, significant re-building and probably some major works on bomb shelters in the embankment to stabilise them for high speed running. Or you could stick with a 30mph speed restriction and skip some of those works, but it would make the name 'Express' seem a bit silly.

I can see the problem at Paddington, but given the costs of all the works on the DHL you could probably easily pay for fitting a couple of extra platforms in at Paddington in the gap north of the site between the station and the canal. That's the bit OTL Crossrail are using, but looking at TTL Crossrail it would be bugger all use to them so could be used for some new HEx platforms (or just shuffling everyone along and putting HEx in the main building)

The OTL frequency was low, because the Picc line existed. It doesn't TTL so the only realistic public transport option is the trains. Honestly I really, really struggle with that. I cannot see a T5-esque terminal being allowed with such poor transport links in place and such a low frequency.

Planing an Airtrack style link to Staines? Whatever did the motorists of West London do to you to deserve this treament?! Not content with making the roads around Heathrow solid due to lack of proper transport links, you also want to put in a scheme that has every level crossing in the region set to 'train' for 50 mins out of every hour. Your a cruel man sir, very cruel. ( )

Finally just a curiousity, where is the depot for HEx. OTL was Old Oak Common, but as that's not on the existing route it would be just a bit inconvenient for trains to use it. I can't see any convenient ones elsewhere on the route so I'm guessing a brand new build somewhere out near Heathrow? All extra expense, money that could have been put towards the Paddington re-development instead....

I've just edited the last line of the post to:

"The Heathrow link service will run 3 times per hour between St Pancras and Heathrow, with the frequency increasing later in the year."

So we'll say that it'll be at 5tph within 3-4 months, "when the second batch of new trains are delivered" or something like that!

My thoughts for the depot were for it to be at the depot just north of Cricklewood station - there's little freight on the MML so there should ample space at the depot.

Dudding Hill Line would need to be refurbished, but given that there are few trains using it, you could probably reduce it to single line working and modernise each of the lines one at a time. The previous site I linked to has BAA quoting £33m for electrifying the DHL in the early 90s which seems a small price to pay to go with relaying track and a bit of resignalling.

Gray - this TL Heathrow Link is grade separated at "Airport Junction" anyhow as per OTL, although I was thinking that it would feed directly into the GWML slow lines (with a single crossover into the fast lines from the chord as a reverse of OTL). The GWML slow lines are the ones that branch off onto the DHL, although that junction is not grade separated. The GWML-DHL junction is immediately adjacent to Acton Main Line (which the DHL avoids), so trains will be travelling at extremely low speeds as they approach/leave the station - something that makes me thing that trains crossing over can be squeezed in here.

[Devvy]

Also: I've just noticed your comment about Airtrack Pip. The level crossings are primarily at Egham (4 through the town, with the railway slicing the town in half). I'm only planning on an extension to Staines at the moment as a halfway house point, with the St Pancras - Heathrow services extended to terminate at Staines - there are no level crossings there.

Ultimately, Egham needs sorting, but this isn't the time to do it by a long way. At some point I'd like to thing we can at least replace 2 of the 4 LCs with bridges, but that's a long way from happening if it does at all.

Wokingham is the other borough that complained about Airtrack, as their level crossing is also used by FGW from Redhill/Gatwich to Reading, so there are 4tph across that LC in each direction (as I know painfully well!), but at least at the moment Heathrow links aren't going anywhere near Reading.

[MonsooN]

Great to see this fantastic T/L back, Devvy!

Vodafone and Cellnet had been around since the 80s with their analogue networks. In 1993, the digital networks came along, Orange, Vodafone, Cellnet (They weren't taken over by BT until the late 90s) and Mercury one 2 one.

I worked for one 2 one/T-Mobile for a number of years and they originally only wanted to operate inside the M25, but the government at the time said they couldn't do this. This meant that one 2 one were always one step behind the other networks when it came to coverage outside of London.

Maybe in this T/L, with our new, forward thinking and more dynamic BR, they might lobby the networks to get coverage on all the major routes quicker to encourage business use. This could lead to train travel being more attractive than cars and flights as more work could be done on the train.

[Devvy]

Originally Posted by MonsooN

Great to see this fantastic T/L back, Devvy!

Vodafone and Cellnet had been around since the 80s with their analogue networks. In 1993, the digital networks came along, Orange, Vodafone, Cellnet (They weren't taken over by BT until the late 90s) and Mercury one 2 one.

I worked for one 2 one/T-Mobile for a number of years and they originally only wanted to operate inside the M25, but the government at the time said they couldn't do this. This meant that one 2 one were always one step behind the other networks when it came to coverage outside of London.

Maybe in this T/L, with our new, forward thinking and more dynamic BR, they might lobby the networks to get coverage on all the major routes quicker to encourage business use. This could lead to train travel being more attractive than cars and flights as more work could be done on the train.

Thanks for the comments

Maybe BR will partner with the networks, I hadn't thought at all about that concept. To be honest, with the increased patronage (and then even more because of fewer motorways making rail more attractive again), I would think the mobile networks would be all too happy to partner with BR, but that's something I'll moot over for a while.

Cheers for the history lesson though

[Devvy]

Newspaper Clipping
October 1993


A Network South East service in motion

"Government suffers defeat over rail privatisation"

The Government suffered a backbench rebellion and defeat over it's planned controversial privatisation of British Rail. The planned legislation would of radically transformed BR into a wide group of private companies, with some looking after track, some for trains, and some running ancilliary station services.

It was only due to a last minute Conservative back bench rebellion that the legislation failed to pass in the Commons, although such action had been threatened before. Labour called the rebellion "an embarrasing failure and reflection upon the Conservative policy on the railways".

Sources within British Rail have quietly expressed their delight at the defeat as well.

Continued on Page 2...

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Notes: OK; I know this is short and sweet, but I'd rather keep the focus on BR here rather then branching out into politics. I've got my hands (and head) full of what is going on with the world of BR without adding Parliament!

So the Railways Act 1993 (ie. the privatisation of British Rail) was defeated in the Commons after a Tory backbench rebellion. As I mentioned, I don't want to dwell too much upon the politics, but we'll have a look at what this means for BR when we get to '94.

Also, there's been some mention of what would of happened to the motorway network in this TL. This is my rough idea for what it might look like - no way is it an accurate depiction though, motorway history is definitely outside of my area of knowledge! No M11 link road, A1 not motorised, M4 not extended past Cardiff, north conurbations have much simpler motorway networks. I'd figure more cheaper dual carriageways, but still - the road capacity is going to be far less then OTL.

[JN1]

Hooray, BR survives. Since the Major government's majority was paper thin in 1993 a fairly small number of backbenchers could really have defeated the bill.

Btw always liked the NSE colours, so thanks for a nice pic.