Splinters - Rommel Dies At Alam Halfa

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by Cymraeg

In mitigation I haver to say that it's just a part of the 6th Panzer, the advance element. The majority will get through to Tripoli. I remain astonished a) as the way that the RM gave up in the latter half of 1942 and b) how effective the British forces in Malta and Alexandria could be.

Can we at least see the fleet with the Sixth Panzer battering their way through the British attack?

Seeing the British attempt to stop the reinforcement of the Afrika Korps foiled (with losses to ships and aircraft) would mitigate the Axis-screw aspect of TTL.

[BlairWitch749]

Originally Posted by Cymraeg

In mitigation I haver to say that it's just a part of the 6th Panzer, the advance element. The majority will get through to Tripoli. I remain astonished a) as the way that the RM gave up in the latter half of 1942 and b) how effective the British forces in Malta and Alexandria could be.

Those forces where not able to interdict the HG Panzer and 10th panzer troop ships responding to torch from shorter range... I can't understate how precious 6th panzer was to the OKW... they wouldn't let any part of it sail without without the thickest escort of ships and aircraft possible... Una or any other sub would find it difficult to shadow a larger convoy because destroyers would be partially detached for anti sub sweeps... which are the sort of things that force you to manuever and break contact with little hope of regaining it

[Cymraeg]

2030 Hours, 30th September 1942, Panzerarmee Afrika HQ
Bayerlein put the phone down and then stared at the map grimly. The situation was still not looking good. Von Randow had pulled back from the Australian lines, and the orders had gone out for an immediate withdrawal to the Fuka line, but it all depended on getting there. And the British were moving North-West fast, even by their standards.

If they couldn’t get back then-

He heard steps outside and then Kesselring swept into the command caravan. The Feldmarschall looked almost as tired as Bayerlein felt. He was also nursing a bandage on the side of his neck and his coat had oil on it.

“Herr Feldmarschall!” Bayerlein blurted. “I wasn’t aware that you were on your way.”

Kesselring turned a weary gaze to him and then looked vaguely affronted. “You didn’t get my message then? Damn it, I wondered about the damage to the radio on my plane. We were jumped by a Spitfire, but we were able to avoid it. I was in Tobruk when I heard about Guderian’s heart attack – my plane was being refuelled and I was talking to the engineers about repairs to the harbour. Speaking of Guderian, how is he?”

“Very ill, sir,” Bayerlein said hoarsely. “The doctor said it was a severe heart attack. He’s lucky to be alive – he’s in the hospital now.”

Kesselring nodded briskly. “I’m taking command as of this moment. I’ve already sent a message to Berlin and Rome. Now – what’s the current situation?”

[BlairWitch749]

Originally Posted by Cymraeg

2030 Hours, 30th September 1942, Panzerarmee Afrika HQ
Bayerlein put the phone down and then stared at the map grimly. The situation was still not looking good. Von Randow had pulled back from the Australian lines, and the orders had gone out for an immediate withdrawal to the Fuka line, but it all depended on getting there. And the British were moving North-West fast, even by their standards.

If they couldn’t get back then-

He heard steps outside and then Kesselring swept into the command caravan. The Feldmarschall looked almost as tired as Bayerlein felt. He was also nursing a bandage on the side of his neck and his coat had oil on it.

“Herr Feldmarschall!” Bayerlein blurted. “I wasn’t aware that you were on your way.”

Kesselring turned a weary gaze to him and then looked vaguely affronted. “You didn’t get my message then? Damn it, I wondered about the damage to the radio on my plane. We were jumped by a Spitfire, but we were able to avoid it. I was in Tobruk when I heard about Guderian’s heart attack – my plane was being refuelled and I was talking to the engineers about repairs to the harbour. Speaking of Guderian, how is he?”

“Very ill, sir,” Bayerlein said hoarsely. “The doctor said it was a severe heart attack. He’s lucky to be alive – he’s in the hospital now.”

Kesselring nodded briskly. “I’m taking command as of this moment. I’ve already sent a message to Berlin and Rome. Now – what’s the current situation?”

Raus (when he lands) will be made commander of the africa corps at this point

edit:

still mad about the convoy... you may have drowned my grandfather

[Cymraeg]

Originally Posted by BlairWitch749

Raus (when he lands) will be made commander of the africa corps at this point

edit:

still mad about the convoy... you may have drowned my grandfather

By the power of my keyboard... your grandfather is now sitting in Sorrento drinking Limoncello. Shame his ship has mechanical problems.

[BlairWitch749]

Originally Posted by Cymraeg

By the power of my keyboard... your grandfather is now sitting in Sorrento drinking Limoncello. Shame his ship has mechanical problems.

at this point he commands a panzer company in the 11th panzer regiment; 6th panzer division

going to africa is still better than his later otl destination... trying to relieve the stalingrad pocket where the division; despite ass stomping two soviet armies took over 65 percent casualties yikes

[Cymraeg]

Originally Posted by BlairWitch749

at this point he commands a panzer company in the 11th panzer regiment; 6th panzer division

going to africa is still better than his later otl destination... trying to relieve the stalingrad pocket where the division; despite ass stomping two soviet armies took over 65 percent casualties yikes

Ouch. 65% casualties is nasty. At this time my maternal grandfather is making the step up from WOII to Lieutenant. He was a Sergeant at Dunkirk - which he never really talked about. (My paternal grandfather was a miner. Which is a different form of bravery.)

[Astrodragon]

Originally Posted by BlairWitch749

Those forces where not able to interdict the HG Panzer and 10th panzer troop ships responding to torch from shorter range... I can't understate how precious 6th panzer was to the OKW... they wouldn't let any part of it sail without without the thickest escort of ships and aircraft possible... Una or any other sub would find it difficult to shadow a larger convoy because destroyers would be partially detached for anti sub sweeps... which are the sort of things that force you to manuever and break contact with little hope of regaining it

While I understand the convoy will be considered important, the record of Italian A/S isnt that good - the large majority of subs sunk by surface units were in coatal waters, and most RN sub losses weer due to mines, which isnt an issue in this case.

There is also the issue of trying to get the RM active and ready in a short time frame, not their most noticeable skill...

The main reason for getting an Italian convoy through was the absence of subs and plane (this was the same reason as in the Atlantic, against the worlds best A/S force...), so if the ships run into one of the notoriously aggressive RN sub commanders, ships are going down.

The bulk of the convoy will probably get through (as did the bulk of the OTL convoys) simply because there isnt a sub with torpedoes in the area.

[Alex1guy]

My grandfather at this point (or great-grandfather) had just saved the Cook Islands from Japanese Invasion. When the Japanese fleet was probing the area, my great-Grandfather proposed raising fake American flags above the islands to make it appear they were under American protection. In short, the plan worked =)

[Cymraeg]

2300 Hours, 30th September 1942, Coast Road, one mile from Daba
The engine in the big Opal truck did not sound healthy, thought Feldwebel Gunter Suddmann as he squinted desperately through the dust-smeared windscreen at the dim rear lights of the truck ahead. It was probably that bloody cylinder again. Well at least they had spare parts for it, unlike the British trucks that they’d been using and cannibalizing. They were dropping like flies.

A snore emerged from the right hand seat in the truck and he looked enviously at Hollen, who was sleeping the sleep of the utterly exhausted. The entire supply company was just about out on their feet. They’d been driving desperately back and forwards with supplies, replacements, fuel, ammunition and everything they could get their hands on.

The Opal was carrying fuel tonight, every drop of which was desperately needed. Rumour had it that the army was going back West soon. He wasn’t surprised – they’d been hammered good and hard by the Tommies. Speaking of the Tommies, he was surprised that the bloody RAF wasn’t flying over the road tonight. He supposed that they must be bombing the army again, poor bastards.

Something flashed out of the corner of his eye and he was starting to look to his right when the first tracers slammed into the truck ahead and turned it into a blazing wreck. He jerked the steering wheel violently to the right to avoid the rapidly slowing vehicle, so violently that Hollen woke with a startled gasp. “What the hell’s going on?” he yelped.

More tracers whipped out of the darkness to the South and Suddmann started to put his foot down when he caught sight of the flames in the wing mirror. The canvas cover at the back of the truck was on fire. And they were carrying fuel. “Shit, we have to get out of here, we’re on fire,” he shouted as he stood on the brakes.

More tracers whipped by and he could see by now that it was coming from more than one placed now as whoever the hell it was fired at the trucks that were now nicely lit by the burning ones. The Opal ground to a halt and then he and Hollen were out of the cab and running madly away from it.

They had good timing, because the fuel promptly went up like a bomb, spattering burning liquid along the road but fortunately not on Suddmann and Hollen as they cowered by the side of the road. As more trucks exploded or ground to a halt Suddmann looked around. It was not a good night because the British were on the road.

[Alex1guy]

Poor Germans, can't get a break lol

[whatisinaname]

The German's are due some good luck ?

[Alex1guy]

Lol short of an earthquake leveling the British Camp they are pretty well screwed at the moment.

[Some Bloke]

As I said earlier the heavier German casualties sustained ITTL's Alam Halfa makes the campaign from then on an exercise in futility. Most of the axis armoured forces were gutted in that battle, much of their reinforcements are feeding the fish, morale is at rock bottom, they've lost 2 commanders and the defences at El Alamein don't seem to be anywhere near as well prepared as in OTL. In short, I seriously doubt there'll even be a race to Tunisia. While OTL's El Alamein broke the back of Axis military power in North Africa, it looks like this version will actually anihilate the Axis position then an there rather than merely seal its fate.

[DuQuense]

They had good timing, because the fuel promptly went up like a bomb, spattering burning liquid along the road but fortunately not on Suddmann and Hollen as they cowered by the side of the road. As more trucks exploded or ground to a halt Suddmann looked around.

ROADBLOCK -- And someone will have to clear the Road, before anyone can use it.

The British have already put Rommel and Guderian out of the fight, If they can bag Kesselring, Whe have Dino sized butterflies.

[trekchu]

We should have those already. Alt-Normandy will have someone else in charge of the coastal defences for one.

[Derek Pullem]

It's only a month before Torch as well - I would imagine the "negotiations" with the Vichy generals (particularly in Algiers) will be much more positive if the Germans have been demonstrably routed and are retreating (as opposed to the confusion immediately post El Alamein in OTL)

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Derek Pullem

It's only a month before Torch as well - I would imagine the "negotiations" with the Vichy generals (particularly in Algiers) will be much more positive if the Germans have been demonstrably routed and are retreating (as opposed to the confusion immediately post El Alamein in OTL)

Yeah but...

The less fighting in Operation Torch, the less experience that American Troops will get for the future...

[trekchu]

There's always Italy. The more the British do to defeat the DAK the more pull they have and IMO ITTL some form of Italian campaign is inevitable.

[Cymraeg]

0630 Hours, 1st October, Panzerarmee Afrika HQ
The first reports from aerial reconnaissance were coming in and so far the news was not good, to put it mildly, thought Bayerlein as he sat muzzily on a seat of the command caravan. He was operating on the last of the good coffee that a friendly Italian officer had donated after seeing the colour of Bayerlein’s face. At least was in better shape than von Mellenthin, who had collapsed the previous night. According to the doctors he had a bad case of amoebic dysentery. Not nice at all.

He looked at Kesselring, who was muttering to himself as he flipped through the message flimsies that had just been delivered. The Feldmarschall looked fresher than everyone else – but then everyone else looked like walking corpses right now, from lack of sleep and an over-abundance of stress.

“They have at least a battalion of armour at Daba,” Kesselring muttered at last. “Mixed armoured cars and tanks. Possibly more.” He turned to look at von Luck, who standing by the table and staring at the map. He was covered in dust and had a long streak of black along one arm, a souvenir from a burning tank Bayerlein had heard. “Von Luck – can we break through to the West?”

Von Luck stared at the map with red-rimmed eyes and then sighed deeply. “I don’t know sir,” he said quietly. “My group are down to less than 20 runners, mostly Mark IIs. We’re very low on fuel and ammunition.”

“What about 21st Panzer?”

Bayerlein looked down at the latest report from von Randow. “37 tanks sir.”

Kesselring looked up sharply. “I thought he had at least 50?”

“No fuel for the others sir.”

Kesselring ran a hand tiredly over his face. “Well, we’ll have to try. What’s the latest on the Italians?”

This brought a wince to Bayerlein’s face. “They’re withdrawing in good order to the North West, but their infantry are very short on motorised transport so they’re going more slowly than we might wish. Now that the sun is up they’re also being harassed by the RAF again.”

“And the cut-off part of 164th Division?”

“No word from them for over two hours sir. They did say that they were being heavily shelled again.”

Kesselring pulled a face. “We’re going to have to abandon them as Guderian planned. Very well gentlemen – I want an assault on the British position at Daba as soon as practically possible.”