More Successful Arminius

[MerryPrankster]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius

According to the link, Arminius, the German warlord who annihilated three Legions in 9 AD, later had two other Roman armies in similar dire straits later on, but was foiled by the over-aggressiveness of his uncle, who kept attacking too early.

What might happen if Arminius's uncle had died earlier, or was better at keeping his head?

What effects might two more defeats of Teutonbergerwald-esque magnitude have on Rome? I wonder about Augustus's political standing--three massive military defeats by "barbarians" on his watch.

What about its effect on Arminius himself? He wanted to unite all the Germans to prevent more Roman imperialism. Could more major victories help him pull it off?

[Max Sinister]

Maybe Augustus decides that it was the wrong idea to disband half of the legions after he got full control of the whole empire. Instead, he starts rising several new legions to conquer Germania back. Instead of consolidating the empire, his successors expand it - Britannia becomes Roman some decades earlier, Germania is reconquered, Caledonia becomes a province a bit later, so do Bohemia, Hungary and Dacia; and of course, there are also Arabia and the Parthian empire. And why stop there?

[carlton_bach]

Personally, I doubt a good deal of the things that are written about Arminius. For one thing I don't think he was on the verge of total triumph - he was good militarily, but so were his opponents, and his politics skills sucked. But assuming he does it, Augustus won't have an option but to give in (gracefully). His rule is based on the promise of continued peace and stability, and if he is forced to buy it I think he might. But that means sometime in the next generation there will be another attack. Probably not a successful one, but Rome does not forget such things.

[jolo]

Even if the accounts are pretty much true (not quite unlikely) - this uncle seems to have been a pretty good war lord, despite his lack of disciplin. He's the one who managed to beat the Romans 3 times - despite their numerical, technological and experience advantages. Without him, the successes of Arminius might not have been possible at all. And both attacking earlier than anyone expects (even the own people), as well as leaving the enemy a way out to avoid unnecessary losses and desperate fighting, are well known tactics.

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by jolo

Even if the accounts are pretty much true (not quite unlikely) - this uncle seems to have been a pretty good war lord, despite his lack of disciplin. He's the one who managed to beat the Romans 3 times - despite their numerical, technological and experience advantages. Without him, the successes of Arminius might not have been possible at all. And both attacking earlier than anyone expects (even the own people), as well as leaving the enemy a way out to avoid unnecessary losses and desperate fighting, are well known tactics.

His uncle whipped up on the Romans too?

[jolo]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

His uncle whipped up on the Romans too?

If I read Wiki correctly, the main battle was usually over when Arminius arrived, with the Romans in panic and disarray - thanks to his uncle.

[Mayhem]

There's little chance of Arminius making much more of a serious impact on Rome than he did OTL; he did frighten the Romans into not expanding past the Rhine.

Without him, though, there's a fun thought. Roman domination of all Europe?
Yeah, baby!

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

There's little chance of Arminius making much more of a serious impact on Rome than he did OTL; he did frighten the Romans into not expanding past the Rhine.

Without him, though, there's a fun thought. Roman domination of all Europe?
Yeah, baby!

Ah.

When I started this thread, I was thinking primarily of the possibilities of him uniting the Germans (as he wanted to), or even causing the fall of Augustus.

Although the idea of a pan-Germanic invasion of Rome, led by a Romanized German who might be inclined to appreciate urban civilization, sounds kinda cool.