What if Hitler hadn't been hit on the head?

[Fooldartz]

Yes, I realise that Hitler wasn't actually hit on the head. But think about it. He makes all of these smart descisions, then BAM! the guy can't do anything right. So, here Hitler honors his treaty with Russia during the late thirties and forties. Also, he ignores Japan and doesn't declare war on the United States, so the US focuses on Japan, while Germany takes all of non-Russian Europe, including Britain. Where do we go from here, or is this completely wrong?

[The Red]

This is completely wrong. Hitler didn't suddenly go mad, he was always making rash decisions, however as the war progressed Germany didn't have the ability to achieve them any more. Granted he began to lose focus with reality as the situation got increasingly worse.

[Fooldartz]

But everything he did was strategically sound until he invaded Russian Europe. Or am I just an idiot?

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by Fooldartz

But everything he did was strategically sound until he invaded Russian Europe. Or am I just an idiot?

Basically, ideaologically speaking Hitler had spent the entire time since 1923 preaching about how the 'true Aryan race' was under threat from the 'Judeo-Marxist threat' including Bolshevism and the Soviets. Simply put, the Molentov-Ribbentrop Pact was something of an abberation and couldn't be sustained politically for long within the party as it went against the grain. And Hitler was planning to invade the Soviet Union all along, so it can't really be taken out the equation.

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Alex Richards

Basically, ideaologically speaking Hitler had spent the entire time since 1923 preaching about how the 'true Aryan race' was under threat from the 'Judeo-Marxist threat' including Bolshevism and the Soviets. Simply put, the Molentov-Ribbentrop Pact was something of an abberation and couldn't be sustained politically for long within the party as it went against the grain. And Hitler was planning to invade the Soviet Union all along, so it can't really be taken out the equation.

Also, he had got to the point that invading the Soviet Union in 1941 was the best option on the table. Leaving Stalin alone or invading a year or two would only have entailed a quicker defeat down the line.

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by Fooldartz

But everything he did was strategically sound until he invaded Russian Europe. Or am I just an idiot?

He got away with it (earlier), but he increasing bit off more than he could chew - Russia is just more obviously that than say, Norway.

[Fooldartz]

Okay, you're right, I'm an idiot.

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by Fooldartz

Okay, you're right, I'm an idiot.

Everyone makes mistakes. Making mistakes is not the same as being an idiot.

Not recognizing that one makes mistakes, on the other hand...

[Tangerine]

Originally Posted by Fooldartz

But everything he did was strategically sound until he invaded Russian Europe. Or am I just an idiot?

Hitler's strategies had nothing to do with early German successes - all the actual work was done by his generals. Besides, the German armed forces outmatched those of Britain and France at the start of the war (if not in actual material strength then in doctrine, morale and tactics). Germany was fighting at an advantage at the start of the war because their opponents were either unprepared for war (Britain and France) or simply didn't have the resources to match Germany's war machine (Poland).

So, Germany was more than capable of conquering continental western and central Europe. This was the zenith of Germany's success not because Hitler suddenly started making stupid decisions, but because the next round of fighting would be with enemies Germany had no realistic hope of defeating: the USSR and the USA. To be fair, if Germany had played its cards better the USSR might have folded in 1941, but it was a long shot. The sheer logistical strain of invading the USSR had broken the back of the German armed forces by 1942, and the resulting war of attrition was unwinnable for the Nazis given that the USA was now pouring nearly limitless resources into the war effort of both Britain and the USSR.

People often cite the opening of hostilities between Germany and the USSR as Hitler's "big mistake", but from their viewpoint it would have been an even bigger mistake not to invade the USSR. By the 1940s the USSR was knee-deep in militarization and the officer corps of the Red Army was being quickly rebuilt after being eviscerated in the 1930s. Hitler and the generals knew that the chance of victory over the USSR became slimmer every year the invasion was delayed.

[V-J]

Originally Posted by The Red

Also, he had got to the point that invading the Soviet Union in 1941 was the best option on the table.

I should think that history proves that it wasn't. Hitler's best option after 1940 would probably have been to mostly sit tight and wait for developments. Of course, that swam against his mentality.

[Germaniac]

Originally Posted by V-J

I should think that history proves that it wasn't. Hitler's best option after 1940 would probably have been to mostly sit tight and wait for developments. Of course, that swam against his mentality.

But once again it was completely and utterly against everything the party believed in NOT to invade the USSR and to "sit tight" would only provide the USSR with more or a chance of beating the Germans. While Germany might have beat the USSR in 1941 (There could have been a chance at a negotiated peace had some stars fallen align at the right times), It would already have become impossible to defeat them even one year later.

[The Red]

Originally Posted by V-J

I should think that history proves that it wasn't. Hitler's best option after 1940 would probably have been to mostly sit tight and wait for developments. Of course, that swam against his mentality.

He still lost, but he would have lost harder if he tried in 1942 or 1943 as the Red Army reformed and modernised. The Red Army may have been the one invading in 1943 in fact.

[Bob the Great]

Hitler's "Genius" plan for invading France was just stolen from Manstein.

[Bob the Great]

Hitler's "Genius" plan for invading France was just stolen from Manstein.