WI: Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld die on 9/11.

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

POD 1: The President does not go to Florida, and is in the White House on 9/11.

POD 2: Donald Rumsfeld, who in OTL was in a meeting at the Pentagon when the plane hits, is forced to move the meeting to another room within the Pentagon.

POD 3: The brave souls of Flight 93 fail to stop the plane from reaching Washington.

Result: Flight 93 hits the White House, and Vice-President Dick Cheny, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice and President George W. Bush are killed. When Flight 77 hits the Pentagon, Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsefeld is killed.

Now, Speaker of the House of Representatives Dennis Hastert is President. How does he handle the attack? Who does he pick to replace Cheny, Rice and Rumsfeld? How will history be changed?

[Mysterion]

Don't know enough about Hastert to orumate an intelligent response to the question, but am interested to see this timeline.

[azander12]

Originally Posted by Alternatehistorybuff5341

POD 1: The President does not go to Florida, and is in the White House on 9/11.

POD 2: Donald Rumsfeld, who in OTL was in a meeting at the Pentagon when the plane hits, is forced to move the meeting to another room within the Pentagon.

POD 3: The brave souls of Flight 93 fail to stop the plane from reaching Washington.

Result: Flight 93 hits the White House, and Vice-President Dick Cheny, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice and President George W. Bush are killed. When Flight 77 hits the Pentagon, Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsefeld is killed.

Now, Speaker of the House of Representatives Dennis Hastert is President. How does he handle the attack? Who does he pick to replace Cheny, Rice and Rumsfeld? How will history be changed?

First of all, the economy collapses completely. Secondly, as the dust begins to settle and it becomes clear that Islamic extremists are responsible, anti-Muslim pogroms break out, especially in NYC. The country itself becomes willing to accept any leader willing to give them a path forward. My guess is that either:

A) someone widely respected (Colin Powell perhaps) comes to power as a compromise candidate between Republicans and Democrats, and leads the nation on a similar course to Bush.

B) someone kind of nuts comes in, I don't know the era's politicians all that well, and takes the country on a radically right-wing course. Perhaps stripping first generation Muslims of their citizenship, interning recent immigrants, begins a draft, pushes through a much stronger PATRIOT Act, and invades Afghanistan with much greater force, maybe use of tactical nuclear weapons at Tora Bora for example.

[New Patomic]

Dennis Hastert is kind of a unknown for the Presidency, since even as speaker he kept a low-profile.

But... when it comes to relations with the Muslim Community I can't see him doing any better than Bush, who for how ever many faults he had did do a good job on placing the blame on islamic extremist rather than the muslim community at large.

[Noravea]

He might make Colin Powell Vice President, then resign to make Powell President. Dennis Hassert probably wouldn't handle it well, and wouldn't even want to be POTUS.

[Tim Thomason]

Hastert isn't that bad. But yeah, he won't stay in office long. He'd listen to his advisors (incidentally, some pretty conservative people who might not like Powell) and appoint who they think is an appropriate person to the Vice Presidency. Now's not the time for politics™, but whoever it is is going to be a tough sell to the Senate, but they'll be keelhauled in anyway to appoint whomever (Jeb Bush?, Trent Lott?) decides to take charge.

This is assuming Hastert becomes President in the first place. It's a momentous undertaking and, since he'd have to resign his congressional seat, he might just pass, presumably after getting Robert Byrd to agree to pass. And it'd settle on Colin Powell naturally.

Colin Powell is in Peru during the 9/11 attacks. Which gives it plenty of time for him to be sworn in on the flight home after all the "Who's the President drama?" settles. It'll probably take about an hour and a half.

[azander12]

Originally Posted by Noravea

He might make Colin Powell Vice President, then resign to make Powell President. Dennis Hassert probably wouldn't handle it well, and wouldn't even want to be POTUS.

I'd agree, it seems he could barely handle being Speaker, even in the most executive branch-led government in decades AND with Tom DeLay's hand up the back of his shirt making his mouth move. Likely, he would prove to be completely ineffective, leading to either an internal coup, with I'm guessing Powell or Giuliani becoming President through your method (appointed VP, then given office). If Hassert refused to step down but remained largely ineffective, an actual coup might happen, with the Joint Chiefs of Staff stepping in to stabilize the country. Another option is a far-right Congressman or maybe Governor or other politician (Pat Buchanan anyone?) coming out and creating a new, quasi-fascist political movement.

[Apollo 20]

Quite a few problems with this scenario.

Given the timing involving Flight 93 as the last plane to get underway, it's hard to see Bush and Cheney being kept in the same location after the second plane hit the WTC. One or the other is heading to Raven Rock (Site R), Mt. Weather or into the air on an E-4.

It also isn't clear that the White House was the DC target; it could have just as easily been the Capitol, which is also an easier target to hit.

And, even if the WH was the target, it's hard to imagine there not being some warning and evacuation of the WH before Flight 93 getting to its target. As I recall, the Capitol was evacuated once it was believed that the plane might be headed back to DC.

[Tim Thomason]

Originally Posted by Apollo 20

Quite a few problems with this scenario.

Given the timing involving Flight 93 as the last plane to get underway, it's hard to see Bush and Cheney being kept in the same location after the second plane hit the WTC. One or the other is heading to Raven Rock (Site R), Mt. Weather or into the air on an E-4.

It also isn't clear that the White House was the DC target; it could have just as easily been the Capitol, which is also an easier target to hit.

And, even if the WH was the target, it's hard to imagine there not being some warning and evacuation of the WH before Flight 93 getting to its target. As I recall, the Capitol was evacuated once it was believed that the plane might be headed back to DC.

Yep. Hastert himself spoke of how he was directly evacuated from his office by Agents and taken to an undisclosed location in an interview a couple of years ago.

[Orville_third]

They did state that a threat was supposedly phoned in that said Air Force 1 was a target. (No record of that recording survives- if it existed...) Of course, that could mean AF1 could get hit in midair...

[Lord Grattan]

Originally Posted by Orville_third

They did state that a threat was supposedly phoned in that said Air Force 1 was a target. (No record of that recording survives- if it existed...) Of course, that could mean AF1 could get hit in midair...

Given the difference in piloting skills and deffensive weaponry between the hijackers & planes vs. AF-1 & its pilots, I'd say not remotely possible.

[rottengreekfire]

Originally Posted by Noravea

He might make Colin Powell Vice President, then resign to make Powell President. Dennis Hassert probably wouldn't handle it well, and wouldn't even want to be POTUS.

Could he even do that? Wouldn't Hastert only serve as Acting President? I suppose that he could resign and somehow skip the president pro tempore, thus making Powell Acting President due to his being secretary of state. How would that work?

[wolf_brother]

Slightly related.

[Ariosto]

Didn't a couple Al Qaeda operatives try and pose as reporters and "interview" President Bush while he was down in Florida right before the attacks? Maybe that goes through somehow, but I seriously doubt either Cheney or Bush would be in the White House that long after the initial attacks. I guess you could also have Cheney have a heart attack at some point, not out of the realm of possibility. That could give you this scenario.

[Orville_third]

Originally Posted by Ariosto

Didn't a couple Al Qaeda operatives try and pose as reporters and "interview" President Bush while he was down in Florida right before the attacks? Maybe that goes through somehow, but I seriously doubt either Cheney or Bush would be in the White House that long after the initial attacks. I guess you could also have Cheney have a heart attack at some point, not out of the realm of possibility. That could give you this scenario.

There was a rumor of that...
If it had happened, you can imagine the shock...

[Ariosto]

Originally Posted by Orville_third

There was a rumor of that...
If it had happened, you can imagine the shock...

Ah, here we go. Apparently it did happen.

On the morning of 9/11, President George W. Bush was at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, Florida. He woke up around 6:00 AM and prepared for his morning jog. A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent arrived at the Colony Beach Resort and claimed they had a "poolside" interview with the President. They did not have an appointment and were turned away. It is possible this was an assassination attempt modeled on the one used on anti-Taliban fighter and Northern Alliance military leader Ahmed Massoud two days earlier. The previous April, Massoud addressed the European Parliament and warned of the possibility of al-Qaeda attacking in the West. Longboat Key Fire Marshal Carroll Mooneyhan was reported to have overheard the conversation between the men and the Secret Service, but he later denied the report. The newspaper that reported this, the Longboat Observer, stands by its story. Both Mooneyhan and the Observer reporter were questioned by the Secret Service, but the agency has not commented further. Witnesses have recalled seeing 9/11 hijacker ringleader Mohamed Atta in the Longboat Key Holiday Inn a short distance from where Bush was staying as recently as September 7, the day Bush’s Sarasota appearance was publicly announced.

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

Okay, so whatever the reason, say that Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld all die. Who replaces them?

[Duke 4]

Hastert is just has capable as Gerald Ford who became President. The economy won't fall apart. The stock market will go down for few days. Then go back. Hastert will not give up being POTUS to Powell or any one else. He might ask Powell to become VP. But it will be a republican who will be asked. There will be no high brained ideas of making democrat VEEP. And if a Democrat became President that way they would not make a Republican the VP. Will he run in 2004? That will depend on how comfortable he feels in the job, and how successful he feels. I think he would run in 04. You are talking about career politicians here. They strive and fight to be number one. America is stronger than one President or set of leaders. The country may or may not go into Iraq. Bush had personal reasons for that. Hastert will not have those reasons. But the US military will still have success in the war against terror. Bin Laden will still die. Maybe a lot sooner. History wil not change that much in that regards. On the domestic front, there could be a lot of changes.

[Ariosto]

Originally Posted by Alternatehistorybuff5341

Okay, so whatever the reason, say that Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld all die. Who replaces them?

Well, as others have stated, Speaker Dennis Hastert becomes the next President. He is likely not going to run again in '04.

I am not sure who he would choose as his Vice President, though Colin Powell as others have stated is a possibility given his strong appeal to all American voters and being considered relatively an unbiased pick. John McCain I guess could also be a possibility being a Moderate and also popular, but given he had just fought in a primary campaign against the recently deceased President it might prove a distasteful move.

Without knowing Hastert's policies I have not idea who he would replace Rumsfel or Condi with.

[Jim Smitty]

Powell becomes the new VP, then Hastert steps down making Powell POTUS.

Powell would pick up a middle of the road republican, Jeb Bush for his VP. For DOD I see Powell picking Gates or someone like him. To take over for Rice, I see a Petraeus like person maybe even Petraeus himself.

There will be no Iraq war, Afghanstan will be done right. With possible black SF raids into Iran, Pakistan, and other countries. America pulls out of Afghanstan by the end of 08. The country will not be swimming in debt, and overstreght.