WI: Julius Ceasar killed in Alexandria

[galileo-034]

What if Caesar had been killed during the uprising of Alexandria, what turn the civil war would take?

[galileo-034]

No opinions?

I thought to better chances of success for Cato and Scipio in Africa.

[Cymraeg]

Originally Posted by galileo-034

What if Caesar had been killed during the uprising of Alexandria, what turn the civil war would take?

Good question. I think that Octavian is a bit too young to get actively involved just then in politics, so Marcus Antonius would probably become the defacto leader of the Caesarian camp. I think that there would be a signicant amount of rallying to the Boni camp.

[galileo-034]

There is still Cicero in Italia, I believe.

[MarshalBraginsky]

Marcus Antonius (Mark Antony) ruling the Roman Empire after Caesar's early death would have butterflied a lot of things, mainly the civil war between Antony and Octavian, and I'm not sure if Cleopatra would have a different role in a Julius Caesar-free post-Alexandria.

[Antipater]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

Marcus Antonius (Mark Antony) ruling the Roman Empire after Caesar's early death would have butterflied a lot of things, mainly the civil war between Antony and Octavian, and I'm not sure if Cleopatra would have a different role in a Julius Caesar-free post-Alexandria.

If caesar goes down in Alexandria, there is an almost 100% chance Cleopatra dies too. Her brother Ptolemy or her sister would take over as Macedonian king of Egypt. Whoever emerged on top in Rome would probably feel the need to smack the Egyptians down a bit to put them in their place. They would have killed a Roman consul and de facto dictator in just one year, the honor of Rome would demand revenge.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Mark Antony or Octavian fight for the spoils.

[MarshalBraginsky]

Marc Antony wins the civil war, he probably gets Octavian killed, and becomes a Consul. If Antony wins, would the Roman Empire still survive, or would it remain a republic. Granted, Antony ruling Rome would have a lot of butterflies.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

Marc Antony wins the civil war, he probably gets Octavian killed, and becomes a Consul. If Antony wins, would the Roman Empire still survive, or would it remain a republic. Granted, Antony ruling Rome would have a lot of butterflies.

It's probably far too late to save the Republic.

[Don_Giorgio]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

Marc Antony wins the civil war, he probably gets Octavian killed, and becomes a Consul. If Antony wins, would the Roman Empire still survive, or would it remain a republic. Granted, Antony ruling Rome would have a lot of butterflies.

Well if Mark Antony still falls for Cleopatra i could see the Roman Empire slowly transforming to an Eastern style Dominate and republican Senators wouldnt like that...

[LSCatilina]

What about the oligarchic/traditionalist faction? The death of Caesar would greatly reinforce them, critically if it's shown at "fair payment for his wrongs". Even if Marcus Antonius could likely take control of Rome, the Pompeii and the more hard-line republicans could have the opportuinity to smash him.

Therefore, MA could have even searched the support of Octavius.

For Cicero, meh. This guy was a pain on everybody ass. No one could support him because of his policy of "supporting the evil-governor/administrator/etc-against-all-morale-by-mocking-my-political-adversaries-for-their-own-wrongs"

[MarshalBraginsky]

It might even be far-fetched if Octavian ended up being supported by figures like Brutus and Cassius if Antony and Cleopatra made a dynasty together. Rome would have been split into the Eastern Empire under Antony and Cleopatra and a Western Republic under Octavian, but this is just moot point.

[LSCatilina]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

It might even be far-fetched if Octavian ended up being supported by figures like Brutus and Cassius if Antony and Cleopatra made a dynasty together. Rome would have been split into the Eastern Empire under Antony and Cleopatra and a Western Republic under Octavian, but this is just moot point.

The problem is that Cleopatra would have been killed by a mob of angry Alexandrian the very second Caesar died. Without protection, his brother, the citizens would react really quickly and the queen would be death meat.

[MarshalBraginsky]

Therefore, butterflying away Cleopatra's dubious reputation as "Caesar's Whore". Ptolemy would still rule Egypt, but if Antony leads Rome, would he be a bit more pragmatic when dealing with neighboring empires like Parthia or would Antony be just as ambitious as Caesar, if not more?

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

Therefore, butterflying away Cleopatra's dubious reputation as "Caesar's Whore". Ptolemy would still rule Egypt, but if Antony leads Rome, would he be a bit more pragmatic when dealing with neighboring empires like Parthia or would Antony be just as ambitious as Caesar, if not more?

Egypt is going to be annexed. There's no way the Egyptians can save themselves from being conquered by the Romans. Ptolemy either gives it to Egypt via will or some Roman general is going to conquer it.

[galileo-034]

Without Caesar, the optimates could win at Thapsus and take control of Africa. Hispania would follow...
Mark Antony didn't have the aura of Caesar at this time, I believe.

In case of death of Caesar in the alexandrian riots, Cleopatra would die of course.
There, Arsinoe or Ptolemee have two choices: or remain neutral in the civil war, or support the optimates. The murder of Pompey the Great, especially if Arsinoe takes over, could be forgotten.

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Antipater

If caesar goes down in Alexandria, there is an almost 100% chance Cleopatra dies too. Her brother Ptolemy or her sister would take over as Macedonian king of Egypt. Whoever emerged on top in Rome would probably feel the need to smack the Egyptians down a bit to put them in their place. They would have killed a Roman consul and de facto dictator in just one year, the honor of Rome would demand revenge.

Originally Posted by Don_Giorgio

Well if Mark Antony still falls for Cleopatra i could see the Roman Empire slowly transforming to an Eastern style Dominate and republican Senators wouldnt like that...

Eeeeww!!!!

[MarshalBraginsky]

Eeewww is right. Even worse would be Octavian allying with Brutus. No one should miss on this irony.

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

Originally Posted by Cuāuhtemōc

It's probably far too late to save the Republic.

It is far too late to save the Republic, Caesar's gang losing the civil war would perpetuate a dying system that was only growing more unstable as time passed.

And Egypt is still going to be called Aegyptus very soon unless Cleopatra works her magic on Antony the way she did OTL, of course Egypt is still going to be a Roman client kingdom and eventually outright annexed into the empire so not much change OTL.

Antony probably emerges as the leader following Caesar's death, which means Octavian is either directly killed or simply sent for a battle where he will be killed. What Antony does in the aftermath in regards to following some of the plans Caesar had for helping the people of Rome and conducting campaigns in Parthia and Eastern Europe is really anyone's guess, Antony, like Caesar, was an extraordinarily ambitious man but was also very loyal, I can see Eastern Europe getting subjugated and maaaybe a win in Parthia, not the almost surefire win there would have been under Caesar though.

[t0m1991]

Mark Antony has the military skills to keep himself safe but does he have the political ability of Octavian to transform the republic into a hereditary state? Octavian isn't old enough to do much at this time and if he does do much politically then MA would have done something about him. Also would Caesar have adopted Octavian by this time? Because Octavian was mostly legally motivated to fulfill his filial duty to get rid of rivals after Caesars assassination.