Effect of no Shakespeare on the English Language?

wilcoxchar

Clearly, Shakespeare has had a lot of influence on the Enlgish language. So what would English be like if he never existed or didn't become a playwright? A lot of the words he coined would probably come into use anyway (since many of them were putting words into new parts of speech), but words like 'puking' that he just plain made up on the spot and a lot of the common phrases he invented would not be around. Then there's his influence on the grammar and syntax of English (I'm not as familiar with his influence here).

So, what would English be like without Shakespeare?
 

torque7844

iirc, Dickens used quite a few Shakespeare quotes in his works didn't he? If so, it's possible that Dickens finds his inspiration elsewhere (or even nowhere).
 

Sicarius

Shakespeare invented, or at very least popularized, a ton of phrases and some 1700 household words. In fact, he invented the term "household words"! Here's just some of the shit we'd lack -

Words:
eyeball
obscene
countless
epileptic
moonbeam
wormhole
alligator
dwindle
dislocate
baseless
misplaced
lonely
gloomy
clangor
negotiate
outbreak
tranquil
bedroom
castigate
frugal
birthplace
critical
hurry
eventful
suspicious

Phrases:
Hot blooded
Fell swoop
The Game is Afoot
It’s Greek to me
Fair play
Wear one’s heart on one’s sleeve
Break the ice
A laughing stock
In a pickle
 
Space Oddity

Space Oddity

It gets worse...

Christopher Marlowe is now the greatest Elizabethan playwright. And thus, now children have to memorize Tamburlaine the Great, instead of Romeo and Juliet. Also, the greatest Carolingian tragedy, 'Tis Pity She's A Whore is now never written.
 

Desmond Hume

No Shakespeare means Edmund Spenser takes his rightful place as the greatest author in the English language. No problems there.

Actually, there could be one problem. Spenser's epic "The Faerie Queene," which in a no Shakespeare TL would almost certainly become recognized as the greatest work in English literature, uses a very idiosyncratic, self-consciously archaic orthography that Spenser adopted in tribute to his literary idol Chaucer. In a TL where Spenser has more cultural weight, English spelling would probably be standardized in a very different way; in effect, modern English would look less different from Middle English (although I doubt the pronunciation would change). That's not to say English spelling was standardized the way it was solely because of Shakespeare (it wasn't), but a change that grants greater cultural authority to Spenser would seem to grant more authority to his penchant for archaism.

Also, as Space Oddity suggests, English drama is much poorer without Shakespeare. Drama might become a relatively less important genre, with greater prestige going to the various poetic genres. Maybe people keep on writing epics past "Paradise Lost"?
 
Space Oddity

Space Oddity

Desmond Hume said:
No Shakespeare means Edmund Spenser takes his rightful place as the greatest author in the English language. No problems there.
Click to expand...

Maybe for you. I'd argue there's a reason Shakespeare's plays are still performed, while Spenser's poem is largely the domain of advanced liberal art college classes. And I say that as a man who considers Boiardo and Ariosto fun...
 

Thespitron 6000

Edmund Spenser's poetry was actually written by William Shakespeare, while the works attributed to William Shakespeare were actually written by Christopher Marlowe after he faked his death, and the works attributed to Marlowe were written by Francis Bacon.

The scientific method was developed by the Earl of Oxford.
 
Beedok

Beedok

Thespitron 6000 said:
Edmund Spenser's poetry was actually written by William Shakespeare, while the works attributed to William Shakespeare were actually written by Christopher Marlowe after he faked his death, and the works attributed to Marlowe were written by Francis Bacon.

The scientific method was developed by the Earl of Oxford.
Click to expand...

And the Inuit discovered Ireland.
 

Thespitron 6000

Space Oddity said:
And John Webster, John Ford and Ben Johnson were the same man!
Click to expand...

Yes, Sir Benjamin Webster Fordson. And? I assume most people learn that in elementary school. Now, the fact that George Eliot was a man cross-dressing as a woman cross-dressing as a man, that's university-level stuff.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

Desmond Hume said:
No Shakespeare means Edmund Spenser takes his rightful place as the greatest author in the English language. No problems there.

Actually, there could be one problem. Spenser's epic "The Faerie Queene," which in a no Shakespeare TL would almost certainly become recognized as the greatest work in English literature, uses a very idiosyncratic, self-consciously archaic orthography that Spenser adopted in tribute to his literary idol Chaucer. In a TL where Spenser has more cultural weight, English spelling would probably be standardized in a very different way; in effect, modern English would look less different from Middle English (although I doubt the pronunciation would change). That's not to say English spelling was standardized the way it was solely because of Shakespeare (it wasn't), but a change that grants greater cultural authority to Spenser would seem to grant more authority to his penchant for archaism.
Click to expand...

Shakespeare's stuff had standard spellings? ????

I've seen some of his stuff with weird spelling that I assumed was the original, and that all the modern editions have been redacted to modern orthography.

Edit: aren't there 40+ surviving signatures of his that ALL use different spellings?
 

Desmond Hume

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Shakespeare's stuff had standard spellings? ????

I've seen some of his stuff with weird spelling that I assumed was the original, and that all the modern editions have been redacted to modern orthography.

Edit: aren't there 40+ surviving signatures of his that ALL use different spellings?
Click to expand...

No, Shakespeare's stuff did not have standard spellings. You're right that the standardization of spelling in his work is the doing of modern editors.

All I was trying to say was that if Spenser's archaic, faux-Middle English spellings had higher prestige, English spelling might have been standardized in a different way.
 

Chookie

Desmond Hume said:
All I was trying to say was that if Spenser's archaic, faux-Middle English spellings had higher prestige, English spelling might have been standardized in a different way.
Click to expand...
True, but you're all forgetting the Great Vowel Shift. Shakespear didn't invent modern English. The Vowel Shift invented Shakespeare.

Or at least it allowed his works, which by the way, written by the Earl of Essex and Francis Bacon,( not to mention that one was written in Japanese) to reach alcohol-fuelled audiences.
 
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