could either of the mexican monarchies worked?
- Thread starter herricks
- Start date
Prefrence
Banned
Maxamillion if he would have taken a more conservative stance atleast initially.
The Problem with Maxamillion was he was too liberal for the Conservatives, and too conservatives for the Liberals.
Maxamillion unlike most monarchs had a deep concern for the people and generally sought to improve the lives of the average mexican, I think it would be a good thing for him to be emperor.
Or have the CSA get independence and support him. (However Maxamillion ceeding territory to the CSA is ASB)
The Problem with Maxamillion was he was too liberal for the Conservatives, and too conservatives for the Liberals.
Maxamillion unlike most monarchs had a deep concern for the people and generally sought to improve the lives of the average mexican, I think it would be a good thing for him to be emperor.
Or have the CSA get independence and support him. (However Maxamillion ceeding territory to the CSA is ASB)
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Bah, have Maximilian invade the CSA
(I know, as ASB as CSA invading Mexico).
Bah, have Maximilian invade the CSA
Retake Texas! I am sure the Americans wouldn't mind a bit of help.
Kill Santa Anna off and you might be able to get the first empire to survive longer. If the empire can survive then the Kingdom of Guatemala likely stays part of the Empire instead of spliting off to form the Federal Republic of Central America/United Provinces of Central America.
I think your best bet would be the First Empire under Iturbide. As much as I like Maximilian for a prospective monarch, having an invading power install a foreign prince would be a very difficult pill to swallow (as was the case OTL).
Iturbide on the other hand was a native born Mexican and probably had more qualifying credentials than Maximilian could ever have (i.e. one of the highest ranking military officers instrumental in the independence of the nation in question). By about 1821 I think you may need to change Iturbide to the point that he is more cooperative with Congress (or at least puts a pretty good façade so he makes less enemies). Getting rid of Santa Anna would help (in more ways than one) but Iturbide's behavior in OTL ensured someone was gonna try and get rid of him. You can also go earlier than 1821 and have monarchy be more accepted in Mexico, as by 1821-22 republicanism was strong, especially within Congress.
In the end you need someone savvy enough to successfully maneuver through the messy stew that was Mexican politics in the 1820's. Iturbide is a maybe, but unless you change his person enough to survive (politically and otherwise), though doing so may change the outcome of Mexican independence.
Iturbide on the other hand was a native born Mexican and probably had more qualifying credentials than Maximilian could ever have (i.e. one of the highest ranking military officers instrumental in the independence of the nation in question). By about 1821 I think you may need to change Iturbide to the point that he is more cooperative with Congress (or at least puts a pretty good façade so he makes less enemies). Getting rid of Santa Anna would help (in more ways than one) but Iturbide's behavior in OTL ensured someone was gonna try and get rid of him. You can also go earlier than 1821 and have monarchy be more accepted in Mexico, as by 1821-22 republicanism was strong, especially within Congress.
In the end you need someone savvy enough to successfully maneuver through the messy stew that was Mexican politics in the 1820's. Iturbide is a maybe, but unless you change his person enough to survive (politically and otherwise), though doing so may change the outcome of Mexican independence.
Short Answer: No.
Longer Answer: You need a POD during the late stage of the Mexican War for Independence. Perhaps pretty much every Spaniard commander and their mother doesn't betray the Crown after Iturbide's lead. Once he became Augustin I, the nation was his - but everyone else wanted a piece of the pie and they all worked to undermine him. Juarez needs to die for Maximilian to even have a chance, and even then a surviving CSA to prop him up or something is what he should pray for.
If you want monarchies in Latin America, look to South America (except Gran Colombia):
Brazil - Empire per OTL
Argentina + Uruguay + Paraguay = Platinea - Monarchy like the upper class wanted
Peru - Incan monarchy could work
And Bolivia could be part of Platinea or Peru
I do think that Emperor Napoleon I of Mexico has a nice ring to it though, but that doesn't answer the OP
Longer Answer: You need a POD during the late stage of the Mexican War for Independence. Perhaps pretty much every Spaniard commander and their mother doesn't betray the Crown after Iturbide's lead. Once he became Augustin I, the nation was his - but everyone else wanted a piece of the pie and they all worked to undermine him. Juarez needs to die for Maximilian to even have a chance, and even then a surviving CSA to prop him up or something is what he should pray for.
If you want monarchies in Latin America, look to South America (except Gran Colombia):
Brazil - Empire per OTL
Argentina + Uruguay + Paraguay = Platinea - Monarchy like the upper class wanted
Peru - Incan monarchy could work
And Bolivia could be part of Platinea or Peru
I do think that Emperor Napoleon I of Mexico has a nice ring to it though
, but that doesn't answer the OP^This. Iturbide has the best chance, and his best chance is not that good. Him working better with Congress is actually the POD I chose for my timeline, but even if he doesn't dismiss Congress when he did IOTL he probably would do it later. If he waits a few more years, he might have consolidated his rule to the point he can survive, but it's more likely he's toast at that stage.
Another possibility is that if Iturbide lasts longer, monarchy might be more accepted as a form of government even if Iturbide personally is unpopular. So maybe monarchy can last longer as various generals crown themselves. Who likes the sound of Emperor Antonio I of the House of Santa Anna?
yourworstnightmare
Banned
At leas they'd get a monarch with an ego fitting for the crown.As if OTL wasn't a Mexiscrew enough
Grey Wolf
Donor
IIRC there was a moment when both Santa Anna and Guadeloupe Victoria were on the point of being captured/killed but they managed to escape, and became the main thorns in the flesh for Iturbide
The initial peace with Spain had apparently looked for a European monarch, but none stepped forward and Iturbide as commander of the armies and already acting as regent stepped up. Again IIRC the Captain-Generalcy of Guatemala remained loyal to the Mexican ideal whilst under the empire, but later seceded when the republic was proclaimed
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
The initial peace with Spain had apparently looked for a European monarch, but none stepped forward and Iturbide as commander of the armies and already acting as regent stepped up. Again IIRC the Captain-Generalcy of Guatemala remained loyal to the Mexican ideal whilst under the empire, but later seceded when the republic was proclaimed
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
As if OTL wasn't a Mexiscrew enough
I don't know. Despite losing a lot of territory to the North and South, Mexico managed to hold it's core lands together and not collapse as a state, which it was somewhat luck to do, in my opinion.
Arkhangelsk and Desmond are pretty much right. Iturbide would be the easiest bet if he tried appeasing congress. However I doubt a Mexican monarchy could last very long. Even if Iturbide does stay in power, it is very likely someone down the line (probably probably Iturbide himself) would suffer some populist revolution. A Reform War equivalent is very likely to happen do to the conservative nature of the government.
Maximilian has it very hard. Even if he is one of the few Mexican leaders that truly loved Mexico, he ended up alienating everyone that supported him. Furthermore France had withdrawn their support due to the Franco Prussian war. Even if he somewho manages to defeat the liberals and be more conservative, second wave of liberal revolutionaries (probably under Porfirio Diaz would give a round 2) The scenario where the CSA wins independence and the supports Maximilian, is a pipe dream. I don't understand why the CSA would ever do that they really didn't have any relations with his government at all. And Maximilian would not give any territory to them since he can't really risk being more unpopular.
Maximilian has it very hard. Even if he is one of the few Mexican leaders that truly loved Mexico, he ended up alienating everyone that supported him. Furthermore France had withdrawn their support due to the Franco Prussian war. Even if he somewho manages to defeat the liberals and be more conservative, second wave of liberal revolutionaries (probably under Porfirio Diaz would give a round 2) The scenario where the CSA wins independence and the supports Maximilian, is a pipe dream. I don't understand why the CSA would ever do that they really didn't have any relations with his government at all. And Maximilian would not give any territory to them since he can't really risk being more unpopular.
I'm not an expert on this era, but I always find the idea of an enduring Mexican Empire fascinating. There is a hell of a lot of potential there if they can keep their territory intact, but of course that's the challenge.
Is a Shogun solution possible? The retention of a figurehead monarchy that has real limits on their power but is able to preserve some of the privileges for the conservatives - ie a constitutional monarchy? Can Iturbide be compelled to remain emperor under a constitutional arrangement, and would it be enough to preserve the stability of the realm? Ironically if such a structure can be developed then it may potentially provide the best mechanism for political stability in the turbulence that was OTL Mexican politics.
Is a Shogun solution possible? The retention of a figurehead monarchy that has real limits on their power but is able to preserve some of the privileges for the conservatives - ie a constitutional monarchy? Can Iturbide be compelled to remain emperor under a constitutional arrangement, and would it be enough to preserve the stability of the realm? Ironically if such a structure can be developed then it may potentially provide the best mechanism for political stability in the turbulence that was OTL Mexican politics.