Map Thread VIII

[Devilmaypoop]

Originally Posted by Troyer IV

5. Borders on the east might be a tad too convergent, but alright. Seems fine. The Bulgars, though, and their northern... Hun neighbors? have similar colors - are they in some sort of union or is that just coincidence?

Borders everywhere seem to be a tad strange. None of them really make any sense, as they are pretty much randomly drawn lines with little regard to geography.

Mainly looking at the Americas, Europe, Asia and Africa here.

[chris456]

here is a standerd napoleon win map of 1806

[Megaman03]

A quick and dirty map I made for my own amusement. If you have any questions, fire away!

[TaintedTamt]

Originally Posted by chris456

here is a standerd napoleon win map of 1806

How can Napoleon get Australia? It was being heavily colonised by the British then. The most he could get was land in the West

[Ares96]

Originally Posted by chris456

here is a standerd napoleon win map of 1806

Danish Scania, half of Halland and Blekinge, and Finnveden?

We are not amused.

[Devilmaypoop]

Originally Posted by Megaman03

A quick and dirty map I made for my own amusement. If you have any questions, fire away!

What in the world happened to Finland that made it join the Eurasian Union? Are the Russkies good guys now, or what?

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Originally Posted by TaintedTamt

How can Napoleon get Australia? It was being heavily colonised by the British then. The most he could get was land in the West

Eh? Heavily? It was just the east coast. In fact, France claimed all of Western Australia all throughout the Napoleanic Wars because it was only populated by natives.

I get that they wouldn't be able to grab New South Wales, but Western Australia was any man's game. In fact, in 1806, Britain didn't even claim it themselves.

[Megaman03]

Originally Posted by Devilmaypoop

What in the world happened to Finland that made it join the Eurasian Union? Are the Russkies good guys now, or what?

Finland got independence from Russia peacefully after talks were held with the Russian authorities. The two nations continue to share close ties and Russia is Finland's largest export market.

[Devilmaypoop]

Originally Posted by Megaman03

Finland got independence from Russia peacefully after talks were held with the Russian authorities. The two nations continue to share close ties and Russia is Finland's largest export market.

Wait, so this is an ATL where Finland never left Russia? What's the current year then?

If Finland never left Russia, they should have the same borders as the Grand Duchy of Finland. Those borders are the ones forged only because of the Winter War.

It's a good map, btw.

[Megaman03]

Originally Posted by Devilmaypoop

Wait, so this is an ATL where Finland never left Russia? What's the current year then?

If Finland never left Russia, they should have the same borders as the Grand Duchy of Finland. Those borders are the ones forged only because of the Winter War.

It's a good map, btw.

That's correct. The Russian Constituent Assembly election of 1917 eventually paves the way for Russian democracy as the Bolsheviks of TTL are willing to accept the Russian democracy. This paves the way for a new social democratic Russia with social democratic and centre-left parties dominating the political scene. The Bolsheviks are forced to reform their positions in an attempt to capture the attention of the voters. In this TL, the Bolshevik Party resembles today's Chinese Communist Party with large sections of the party essentially liberal capitalists in all but name. The Duchy of Finland is reformed into an autonomous republic within Russia and eventually obtains independence in the 1960s. It is the mid 21st century.

That's true. I'll fix the map

Thank you.

[Troyer IV]

Originally Posted by Emperor-of-New-Zealand

Just as an FYI - the border between Califernia and Japanese Alaska is completely reasonable. Look at the OTL US borders - straight lines everywhere.

As for your complaints about straight lines in the Sahara desert...what do you propose colonial powers base those borders on? Sand dunes? Seriously, look at OTL maps, it's not that unrealistic.

Only objection I have to Tron's map is the general level of space-filling she has done.

For the Deseret-wank-analogue of Califernia's northern border to be so straight with an ostensibly earlier Japanese colonization of the West coast... no. I would expect the Japanese to have spread much farther along the coast before turning so far inland into the huge wild environs of Alaska. By the time the (presumably European descended) Califernians show up, the Japanese _probably_ would have stretched far more along the coast unoppposed like the Brits did on the East Coast - only halting when they ran into the French and Spanish - before turning all attention inland. In Colonial days, he who owns the coast claims the interior.

My issue is simply that that border, unless otherwise decided via treaty, war, or whatever, would not be straight as an arrow. Your argument that straight lines are used all over the USA is entirely different as that has to do with internal divisions of a nation in a huge wilderness and lats & longs were the easiest to use. For two nations agreeing to the same sort of border, I call bollucks, especially considering the potential history there.

Now, straight lines in the desert is something else entirely. You want to do that, go right ahead, but again, diagonals are gonna make for screwy issues - hence why people did use lats & longs. Just saying. Those are internal divisions, though, so whatever. Algeria has a funny shape OTL due to such issues.

But yeah, the Space-Filling is a bit of a concern.

Originally Posted by Devilmaypoop

Borders everywhere seem to be a tad strange. None of them really make any sense, as they are pretty much randomly drawn lines with little regard to geography.

Mainly looking at the Americas, Europe, Asia and Africa here.

Yup. Well... that's what you get when you just right in and invent your own world and history as you go.

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Originally Posted by Troyer IV

snip

I didn't know that about the Japanese ITTL, sorry.

I still disagree with Algeria though. If it can have such a shape in OTL, no reason why the same cant occur in an ATL.

[Looseheadprop]

Originally Posted by B_Munro

Yeah, but in the TL as written they keep fighting until actual starvation sets in - I'm not sure if even Churchill could keep Britain in the war under those circumstances.


Bruce

that a little bit of miscommunication. they don't fight on until starvation. i was trying to say that the political situation deteriorates as the bombing and u-boat attack takes its toll. britain crumbles from the inside rather than being taken over. Churchill is part of the problem. He leads a militant pro-war faction that pisses off the surrender faction and the governing group.

Look, your criticism about the 1945 part is fine. the war is a very near thing. But the drought in 1947 was truly catastrophic in any scale. even without the war this would have been a devastating drought. And russian agriculture would still be suffering from collectivisation anyway.

oh, and on the topic of the australia-india-ROC alliance: the USA is very far away and isnt as powerful as it could be. The Indians actually have a hostile border with the Japanese, and the ROC is picking fights with them daily. together they present too much of a challenge to the japanese to fight at one time. This bloc is very friendly with the Americans but they are suspicious of the recent thawing of relations.

France is the second most powerful country in europe, the germans arent all powerful. there isnt much to stop them Also, if you look at the map the yanks have the faeroes, greenland and iceland, you can bet they are packed to the brim with nukes. The closest the germans can get to the USA are the Azores

The Japanese managed to hold on because the yanks

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Emperor-of-New-Zealand

Maybe you need a monitor adjustment, though Beedok did use the incorrect colour for Poland. The one he used is only used when a Polish state exists amidst other Polish states (like a Polish cultural circle in the Middle Ages) and is dominant to the others. There is a better colour for Poland.

Ah, on my copy of UCS that other colour is labelled as 'poland-lithuania', so I didn't want to use it.

[B_Munro]

Originally Posted by Looseheadprop

that a little bit of miscommunication. they don't fight on until starvation. i was trying to say that the political situation deteriorates as the bombing and u-boat attack takes its toll. britain crumbles from the inside rather than being taken over. Churchill is part of the problem. He leads a militant pro-war faction that pisses off the surrender faction and the governing group.

Didn't say they were taken over. But the UK is unlikely to _surrender_ outright for less than starvation: armistice, I can buy.

Originally Posted by Looseheadprop

Look, your criticism about the 1945 part is fine. the war is a very near thing. But the drought in 1947 was truly catastrophic in any scale. even without the war this would have been a devastating drought. And russian agriculture would still be suffering from collectivisation anyway.

Even with Soviet mismanagement and wartime damage, it only killed about 1.5 million people, mostly Ukrainians. OTL the Soviets lost 20 million people and kept fighting: the drought ain't going to knock them out of the war. The less useful will be "triaged."

OTL was close. In a 1945 invasion where the Soviets are expecting an attack, the Germans will do rather worse.

Originally Posted by Looseheadprop

oh, and on the topic of the australia-india-ROC alliance: the USA is very far away and isnt as powerful as it could be.

How so? OTL the US beat the Japanese essentially with one hand tied behind its back (the great bulk of the war effort was directed towards Europe.) India may be a formidable threat to Japan in 1970, but it sure won't be in 1940-something.

Originally Posted by Looseheadprop

France is the second most powerful country in europe, the germans arent all powerful. there isnt much to stop them Also, if you look at the map the yanks have the faeroes, greenland and iceland, you can bet they are packed to the brim with nukes. The closest the germans can get to the USA are the Azores

So the US nuclear blackmails the Germans into letting the French rearm? No German ICBMs in this TL? Von Braun blew himself up at an early age?

Originally Posted by Looseheadprop

The Japanese managed to hold on because the yanks

Hold onto what now?

Bruce

Edit: PS - I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a bit harsh. It just annoys me the way people keep coming up with some way to put a few more points in the Nazi column and then go "yes! Now I can write my cool Nazi victory scenario!" without examining compensating factors. Everyone is just so pantingly eager to find a way for them to win, you know? Getting then to win is just hard or requires major PODs as much as a decade or more before the war: so I'm cool with a somewhat ASB TL which produces a really nice map. Just don't keep on claiming that it's not ASB at all.

Addendum: and why would Hitler wait till '45 to attack, anyway? He was in poor health by the 40s and in a hurry to get his war done while he was still alive...

[B_Munro]

Originally Posted by Megaman03

A quick and dirty map I made for my own amusement. If you have any questions, fire away!

Heh. Nice to see another follower. And the flags are nice. What is the year, and when is the initial POD?

(I must quibble re Red Latin America: it is after all a great many pretty different countries, and such universal Red Success seems a trifle unlikely...domino theory, anyone? )

Bruce

[Megaman03]

Originally Posted by B_Munro

Heh. Nice to see another follower. And the flags are nice. What is the year, and when is the initial POD?

(I must quibble re Red Latin America: it is after all a great many pretty different countries, and such universal Red Success seems a trifle unlikely...domino theory, anyone? )

Bruce

I try my best. But 'tis nothing but a poor attempt on my part compared to an original.

It's around the mid 21st century. 2007 to be exact.

There are several PODs. Among them are :

- Western Australia succeeds in becoming it's own dominion and later votes to become a republic along with South Africa.

- The Bolsheviks accepting Russian democracy following the Russian Constituent Assembly election of 1917.

- Gran Colombia, Central America and Peru-Bolivia stay intact.

- Indonesia stays hard-line Socialist until the mid-80's which causes the...

- The Clandestine Communist Organization to be able to seize north Borneo with the help of the Brunei People's Party with Indonesian funding and assistance, both material and financial.

- Earlier independence for South Sudan.

- Civil wars in Iran and the DR Congo.

- Reformists fail to take over the Chinese Communist Party. China has begun small scale reforms. Something akin to Doi Moi in OTL Vietnam.

- The US is far more right-wing, free market oriented and export based than OTL. When TTL's financial recession hit, the US has one of the worst countries hit and is experiencing it's own American Spring of sorts.

[Pischinovski]

a little work in progress map of my araldyana tl:

1856:

[Ares96]

Originally Posted by Pischinovski

a little work in progress map of my araldyana tl:

1856:

As always, I'm loving this series. Especially Scanden.

[Muwatalli']

Originally Posted by Pischinovski

a little work in progress map of my araldyana tl:

1856:

I really like it, just as the other Araldyana ones. Curious to see the rest of the world, which you haven't finished yet.