present-day micronation of Neutral Moresnet ?

Michel Van · May 29, 2011

Neutral Moresnet 1815-1919
Was a tiny Belgian-Prussian condominium in tri-border area of German Empire, Belgium and Netherlands
more here http://www.moresnet.nl/english/index_en.htm

in 1914 The German Empire invaded Belgium but respects the neutrality of Neutral Moresnet
until 1915 the military occupying Neutral Moresnet.
in order to build the Montzenroute a miltary railway supply line Aachen-Antwerpen.
with the Treaty of Versailles awarding Neutral Moresnet to Kingdom of Belgium

but Wat if Neutral-Moresnet manage to remain Neutral in 1919 and gain territories and compensation from German Empire ?
and remain a micronation until present-day

reformedcpmuser · May 29, 2011

Michel Van said:
Neutral Moresnet 1815-1919
Was a tiny Belgian-Prussian condominium in tri-border area of German Empire, Belgium and Netherlands

Who lived in this border area? Was this simply a buffer zone between the three states?

Michel Van · May 29, 2011

reformedcpmuser said:
Who lived in this border area? Was this simply a buffer zone between the three states?

the problem was the valuable zinc spar mine in Moresnet
The Prussians and the Netherlands were making claims on this mine
in 1815 it's was ONLY zinc spar mine on European main-land
the other mine was in Bristol under control of the British Empire
So the Congress of Vienna of 1815 declare the area Neutral, to prevent a new war in Europe.
with Netherland (later Belgium) or Prussian (later German Empire) Commissioners in controll

in Neutral-Moresnet live 2572 people
695 locals population so called "“neutrals”
the rest were
852 Belgians, 807 Prussians, 204 Dutch and 14 immigrants
the languages was German, French, Dutch
the respectfully Dr. Wilhelm Molly proposed in 1908 to make Esperanto offical language of Neutral-Moresnet
even today the aera has strong Esperation community.

around 1900 the German Empire start agressive campain to claim Neutral-Moresnet
with cut-off of electric power and telepon lines
also prevent the construction of new connections across Belgian territory
as the Micronation try to open a casino in 1908 the german threatens with take over.

reformedcpmuser · May 29, 2011

Michel Van said:
the problem was the valuable zinc spar mine in Moresnet
The Prussians and the Netherlands were making claims on this mine
in 1815 it's was ONLY zinc spar mine on European main-land
the other mine was in Bristol under control of the British Empire
So the Congress of Vienna of 1815 declare the area Neutral, to prevent a new war in Europe.
with Netherland (later Belgium) or Prussian (later German Empire) Commissioners in controll

in Neutral-Moresnet live 2572 people
695 locals population so called "“neutrals”
the rest were
852 Belgians, 807 Prussians, 204 Dutch and 14 immigrants
the languages was German, French, Dutch
the respectfully Dr. Wilhelm Molly proposed in 1908 to make Esperanto offical language of Neutral-Moresnet
even today the aera has strong Esperation community.

around 1900 the German Empire start agressive campain to claim Neutral-Moresnet
with cut-off of electric power and telepon lines
also prevent the construction of new connections across Belgian territory
as the Micronation try to open a casino in 1908 the german threatens with take over.

Very interesting.

Are there any houses left in Neutral-Moresnet? Also, what money did they use?

Micronations today tend to be the hobbies of eccentric millionaires (e.g. Sealand). Its interesting to see how a neutral state was able to stay independent for so long.

Alex Richards · May 29, 2011

reformedcpmuser said:
Very interesting.

Are there any houses left in Neutral-Moresnet? Also, what money did they use?

Micronations today tend to be the hobbies of eccentric millionaires (e.g. Sealand). Its interesting to see how a neutral state was able to stay independent for so long.

The former capital of Kelmis has a population of 10,000.

They used the French Franc officially, but the currencies of Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands were also legal tender.

Simon · May 29, 2011

Michel Van said:
But what if Neutral-Moresnet manage to remain neutral in 1919 and gain territories and compensation from the German Empire? And remain a micronation until present-day?

I can't really see it remaining independent post-Treaty of Versailles unless you somehow get Belgium and Germany on the same side, and even then it would be tough. Since the only reason it kept its independence was because it was so valuable and nobody wanted people starting a war over it after WW1 whichever side won is going to take it precisely because of its value. Even if Belgium somehow stayed neutral throughout I could easily see the Germans unofficially bullying them to end the condominium and ceding it to Germany.

reformedcpmuser · May 29, 2011

One more question: is there a scaled map of Neutral Moresnet? There are no scales on the map on the website. The length of the territory appears to be no more than a few kilometers at best.

Microstates would be much easier to create and maintain with the euro. I've suggested on other threads that some, most, or even all EU countries should maintain a common postal system. A common EU postal system or even a common transportation ministry (for superhighway projects, etc) is unpopular with some here at AH, so I don't bring it up much. Still, microstates would benefit from not having to maintain individual postal and transportation ministries.

Michel Van · May 30, 2011

here map of Neutral-Moresnet

the west side on Belgium site is 5,33 km or 3.31 mi
the south side atlong Hergenrath 1,6 km or 1 mi
the east side is 4 km or 2.48 mi
it had roughly 1,984 km2 or 0,766 sq mi
that size of Monaco !

in 1919 were life around 4000 inhabitants in this micronation
today around 36000 inhabitants in area
again size of Monaco

reformedcpmuser · May 30, 2011

Michel Van said:
here map of Neutral-Moresnet

the west side on Belgium site is 5,33 km or 3.31 mi
the south side atlong Hergenrath 1,6 km or 1 mi
the east side is 4 km or 2.48 mi
it had roughly 1,984 km2 or 0,766 sq mi
that size of Monaco !

in 1919 were life around 4000 inhabitants in this micronation
today around 36000 inhabitants in area
again size of Monaco

Thanks. That is about the side of the American town I grew up in. That town also had about 30 000 residents or so. 4 000 residents could easily fit within that area.

Unlike Monaco, there was no prince, duke, or other noble. Neutral-Moresnet was rather radical in that it was a town ruled by a council, if I'm not mistaken. Here in New England many towns are run the same way. The mayor is called an 'alderman', and he (or she) sits as a first among equals on a board of 'selectmen' who rule as a council over the town. Was Neutral-Moresnet also run in this way?

Michel Van · May 30, 2011

Neutral-Moresnet was governed by two Royal commissioners, in end was a Belgium and a German
the Belgiums were Judge from city Liege or town Verviers
the Germans were District commissioner of village from Eupen

The municipal administration was headed by a mayor appointed by the commissioners.
next to that was a municipal council of ten members.
The council, as well as a welfare committee and a school committee,
were appointed by the mayor and served an advisory function only. The people had no voting rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_Moresnet

Michel Van · Jun 3, 2011

my bigges problem with this idea
how can people of Neutral-Moresnet can convince at the Treaty of Versailles ?
not to be integrate in Belgium
but to remain independent and get from Weimarer Republik, land area and Reparations ?