The Weighted Scales: The World of an Aborted Rome

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

Originally Posted by Xgentis

The irony would be in fews decade when they would be "civilized" that another celtic tribe destroy and conquer them.

The Celtic tribes were no less "civilized" than the Latin, Etruscan, Samnite, Umbrians or Campanian tribes or city-states in Italy. Not That I'm accusing you of making this mistake, but it is a fairly common fallacy to assume that a foreign culture with either no known literary resources or urbanization is uncivilized or more primitive. If anything, at least in respect of metallurgical expertise, the Celts' technology in that area was ahead of that in Italy.

[ImmortalImpi]

Originally Posted by Lysandros Aikiedes

The Celtic tribes were no less "civilized" than the Latin, Etruscan, Samnite, Umbrians or Campanian tribes or city-states in Italy. Not That I'm accusing you of making this mistake, but it is a fairly common fallacy to assume that a foreign culture with either no known literary resources or urbanization is uncivilized or more primitive. If anything, at least in respect of metallurgical expertise, the Celts' technology in that area was ahead of that in Italy.

Nor should we forget of the Coligny calender or the Celtic Legalistic achievements.

[Xgentis]

Originally Posted by Lysandros Aikiedes

The Celtic tribes were no less "civilized" than the Latin, Etruscan, Samnite, Umbrians or Campanian tribes or city-states in Italy. Not That I'm accusing you of making this mistake, but it is a fairly common fallacy to assume that a foreign culture with either no known literary resources or urbanization is uncivilized or more primitive. If anything, at least in respect of metallurgical expertise, the Celts' technology in that area was ahead of that in Italy.

I never say they weren't civilized just that it's what the others peoples like greeks think of them. I know very well they aren't more primitive.

[Emperor Qianlong]

Originally Posted by ImmortalImpi

Nor should we forget of the Coligny calender or the Celtic Legalistic achievements.

The problem is that the Celts - for the greater part - had no own writing system and only adopted it from foreign people they came into contact with. Broadly, however, there were four writing systems:

- The Celtic-speaking people in northern Italy (as well as in the Alps) adopted a variant of the Etruscan alphabet for writing their language(s).

- The southern Gauls (adjacent to Massilia) adopted a variant of the Greek alphabet.

- The Celtiberians of the upper Duero/Ebro areas adopted the semi-syllabary of the Iberians (who had, in turn adopted this writing system from the Tartessians).

- Lastly, there's also Gaulish inscription using the Latin alphabet from the Roman period.

[Monopolist]

Great work as always Errnge.

Just a random thought, but I think it'll be interesting to see how the Samnites might react to the Rasna collapse and the Senones. Might we see Samnite invasions of Campania ITTL too?

Oh, and can I request a map?

Originally Posted by Henriksson

*snip*

Whoa! I hate to be a little late to comment, but... I don't even know what to say to that, other than now I really want to buy that guy's book! Really interesting stuff Henriksson.

[Errnge]

Originally Posted by Monopolist

Oh, and can I request a map?

ask and you shall receive.

btw this took me forever to make, so it better get some love

[Henriksson]

Really cool map! It's really obvious you've put a lot of thought into it.

[Monopolist]

And your efforts were not to waste! Very detailed and very nice map you made there.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

That map is beautiful, bella! Magnifique!

[Berserker]

holly crap that map is nice

[Analytical Engine]

Originally Posted by Errnge

Analytical Engine: Oh, there will be Gauls

As a true Celtic chap, I say huzzah!!!

Can we have a Hellenised Narbonensis?

Originally Posted by ImmortalImpi

If you have any questions about Persia just ask.

State of the Selucids?

Originally Posted by Errnge

ask and you shall receive.

btw this took me forever to make, so it better get some love

*furious drooling*

Can we please, please, please, have a Hellenised Ba'alist religion (the cult of Belos is fine) as the dominant faith in Europe ITTL, please?

[sudfamsci]

Originally Posted by Errnge

btw this took me forever to make, so it better get some love

Beidh mé grá a thabhairt duit Ceilteach

[Kalvan]

Originally Posted by Emperor Qianlong

The problem is that the Celts - for the greater part - had no own writing system and only adopted it from foreign people they came into contact with. Broadly, however, there were four writing systems:

- The Celtic-speaking people in northern Italy (as well as in the Alps) adopted a variant of the Etruscan alphabet for writing their language(s).

- The southern Gauls (adjacent to Massilia) adopted a variant of the Greek alphabet.

- The Celtiberians of the upper Duero/Ebro areas adopted the semi-syllabary of the Iberians (who had, in turn adopted this writing system from the Tartessians).

- Lastly, there's also Gaulish inscription using the Latin alphabet from the Roman period.

You forgot Oghams in Ireland and Pictavia

[Errnge]

Thank you guys, it took me forever to research and make that damn thing

Analytical Engine: Its kinda sorta you will have to wait and see.

Kalvan: the problem is that Ogham is extremely rare. it is thought that much of pagan Celtic writing was part of a sacred druid ritual, and thus not used for historical accounts but for religious ceremonies and places of worship.

If writing was adopted by the average Celt, they would likely adopt Greek, what with the major Greek city of Massalia being right there next to the "most Celtic" part of the world at that time

[ImmortalImpi]

Originally Posted by Analytical Engine

State of the Selucids?

Erm, I haven't completely followed the Tl but from the last update it's 363 BC. Alexander's conquests have not even begun yet.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Originally Posted by ImmortalImpi

Erm, I haven't completely followed the Tl but from the last update it's 363 BC. Alexander's conquests have not even begun yet.

Alexander's father Philip hasn't even began his reign over Macedon. His older brother Perdiccas III was King of Macedon at this time period.

[ImmortalImpi]

Originally Posted by Cuāuhtemōc

Alexander's father Philip hasn't even began his reign over Macedon. His older brother Perdiccas III was King of Macedon at this time period.

Yeah I was about to say that. If we're talking Achaemenids, I can say a bit about that.

At this time the civil war between Cyrus the Younger and Artaxerxes II had damaged Persian stability but they were able to keep their grip on the Greeks of Asia minor for a bit longer. At this time Egypt is independent, having broken off under Amyrtaeus. Not until Nectanebo II was defeated and forced out by the generals of Artaxerxes III was it recaptured. The Persians are a shell of their former self but nothing like the collapsing corruption infested Persia that Alexander's conquered.

[Errnge]

Originally Posted by ImmortalImpi

Yeah I was about to say that. If we're talking Achaemenids, I can say a bit about that.

At this time the civil war between Cyrus the Younger and Artaxerxes II had damaged Persian stability but they were able to keep their grip on the Greeks of Asia minor for a bit longer. At this time Egypt is independent, having broken off under Amyrtaeus. Not until Nectanebo II was defeated and forced out by the generals of Artaxerxes III was it recaptured. The Persians are a shell of their former self but nothing like the collapsing corruption infested Persia that Alexander's conquered.

as far as i know, none of the events that have taken place in italy would affect the fall of the achaemenids or the rise of alexander.

unless someone has information otherwise. i'd be more than happy to read about it.

[Analytical Engine]

Originally Posted by Kalvan

You forgot Oghams in Ireland and Pictavia

The Irish and Picts WERE NOT CELTS!!!!!

Celtic, yes (debatable for the Picts), but not Celt.

It's like calling the English "German".

[/Susanoist rant]

Originally Posted by ImmortalImpi

Erm, I haven't completely followed the Tl but from the last update it's 363 BC. Alexander's conquests have not even begun yet.

Brain-fart...

Originally Posted by Errnge

Analytical Engine: Its kinda sorta you will have to wait and see.

Look forward to it...

Kalvan: the problem is that Ogham is extremely rare. it is thought that much of pagan Celtic writing was part of a sacred druid ritual, and thus not used for historical accounts but for religious ceremonies and places of worship.

See above for my rant...

If writing was adopted by the average Celt, they would likely adopt Greek, what with the major Greek city of Massalia being right there next to the "most Celtic" part of the world at that time

Or it could end up like Serbo-Croat - the same language, written in three different alphabets.

[8Deer]

Originally Posted by Analytical Engine

The Irish and Picts WERE NOT CELTS!!!!!

Celtic, yes (debatable for the Picts), but not Celt.

It's like calling the English "German".

[/Susanoist rant]

Isn't a celt anyone who speaks a Celtic language though? I've never heard any distinction between Celt and Celtic...