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#941
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interesting update, Makedonia is quite screwed, but I think successor states could hold out in Anatolia.
Magnum: your not obstructing the TL your pointing out something Errnge could use to improve it
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#942
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ITTL: "All true....those cowards cant deny the fact we live here!!!" OTL: very awsome update. cant wait to see how the Volcae en Boii ar going to chance the face of Macedon.
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#943
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Celts FTW!!! will Epiros manage to hold out? seems a bit more alive than Makedonia.
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#944
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Hey Errnge
I just got this really cool idea. You know how there's a Phoacean Greek colony in southern Gaul by the name of Massilia? Founded around 600 BC, they've been exchanging cultures with the Celts for centuries by the time of 275 BE. So what if this little colony decides to expand, be ruled by some King of mixed Celto-Hellenic heritage, and soon vassalizing most of what is now Southern France? And what if their philosophies and ways of life soon mixed in with the Celts'? A Unified Gaul with Hellenic influence would be able to defy the universe! |
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#945
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Also, as far as Celtic battle organization goes, despite contemporary writers' opinions, it seems that there was some good deal of organization. Gallic war-bands were top-knotch mercenaries at the time and were a staple of most armies. The Celtic armies, while not consistently, did defeat Hellenic armies rather often-- Look at the Galatians, or the Lusitanians. It appears that there was some level of organization that allowed them to maneuver. Perhaps their control over armies was not as firm as that of Hellenistic generals, and I'd be willing to bet Celtic leadership wouldn't be as professionally trained, but to depict them as a mindless horde simply charging in around an enemy seems... unlikely. Also, most of the Macedonian leadership in Anatolia stopped giving two figs about Macedonia proper after the Babylonian invasion. They are much more worried about that more immediate threat than the one that just got rid of their sucky-ass king for them. I think that there will be Macedonian resistance, but it will come in a different form than expected. I never said anyone was going quietly... I do have to say though, you do know a lot more about military history than me, so it's always great to hear your opinions
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The Weighted Scales: A World of an Aborted Rome Apparently it's the best Ancient TL of 2011. Oh Baby! |
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#946
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The Weighted Scales: A World of an Aborted Rome Apparently it's the best Ancient TL of 2011. Oh Baby! |
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#947
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The system of Trimarchisia is said to have been used among Celtic cavalrymen whom participated in the OTL Delphi Expedition. This system would split the cavaly force into groups of three, with one or two sections brought into combat at a time. Quote:
Caesar describes one Celtic group, the Helveti of Switzerland, as forming a phalanx-like formation in battle against Romans. Whether this was something gradually adopted through contact by the Greeks or that some such military tactic existed among northern Europeans for centuries is unknown. The 10,000 Galatians (about half of which may have been actual warriors) that entered Anatolia in the 270's BCE at the behest of King Nicomedes I of Bithynia, had survived for a long time after they started running amok. This group having survived as long as they did, could not have done so if they were a mere undisciplined rabble. Not for nothing were Celts in demand as mercenaries by the Greeks, Carthaginians and even Romans. The image of Celts as a mob of charging bloodthirsty wild-men is one of the strongest stereotypes of the ancient world. If a large Celtic horde was to have a high number of professional warriors in it, its more likely they would have a profound understanding of group discipline and tactical manoeuvres. Most say the problem with the Celts was that they lacked organization. No, the real problem was that divided into smaller polities over a much larger geographic expanse. Their "tribes" were their nations. What's the real difference between a Celtic tribe and a Greek city-state? What's the difference between a tribal confederacy and a city-state league? |
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#948
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The Weighted Scales: A World of an Aborted Rome Apparently it's the best Ancient TL of 2011. Oh Baby! |
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#949
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And is this the last update for a week or so? |
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#950
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Methinks so.
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The Weighted Scales: A World of an Aborted Rome Apparently it's the best Ancient TL of 2011. Oh Baby! |
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#951
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Oh shoot, I forgot to leave accolades when I read the updates earlier.
Accolades!
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#952
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Ah, those wacky celts.
"How did you get injured in the battle?" "Someone hit me with a pig on a stick!" Bruce |
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#953
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I think Macedonai is going to be robbed blind
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#954
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And here come the Celts!!!
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#955
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And another dynasty bites the dust. Can't wait for this storm to smash all over Hellas.
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#956
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David Houston un Canadien errant my TL: Canada-wank (99% ASB-free) Turtledove 2010 updated: 1 Sep '12 |
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#957
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Errnge, two things:
First, I am certain that the history of warfare will be drastically different than OTL by 1500 AD. Will there be any different directions taken in combat, armor, weaponry, etc. within 100 years of last chapter? Also, if you need pictures of possible infantry, archers, cavalry, artillery, etc, just let me know, give descriptions, and I will grant your demands. Second, when's the next update? ![]() |
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#958
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I don't think I need pictures, but if I do, I will tell you. And soon. I'm still working out some of the kinks in it, but I'm almost done.
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The Weighted Scales: A World of an Aborted Rome Apparently it's the best Ancient TL of 2011. Oh Baby! |
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#959
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Chapter Five: To Live And Die By Fire
Part Twelve: The Birth of Ouolkike The following is a passage from The History of Ouolkike: Volume 2 by Catuandros— “With the head of the Mapedonnirix [1] at the head of their army, the Ouolki moved onward with new strength. The Gods truly were on their side, and this new land delivered to them was fertile and warm. The war-horns and drums announced their arrival to each new city, and each new city paid tribute to the Ouolki. The cities the Mapedonni called Idomenai, Ioron, Bragylai, Morrylos, Europos, Klitai, Ichnai, Herakleia, Allante, Tyrissa, Gendetros, and Kyrrhos all opened their gates to the Ouolki upon their arrival and showered them with the riches their city had to offer. They swore fealty to the Ouolki and forsook their former loyalty to the Mapedonnirix, whose head was possessed by Iouinaballa Acichorignos. Since the Mapedonnirix had no sons or daughters, there was no one to take his place as king in the Mapedonni tradition. Mapedonni generals began calling themselves kings in far off lands ruled by the Mapedonnirix. Fearing the coming might of the Ouolki, the Mapedonni living in the city they called Pellas began to flee by way of the ocean, while others set to panic and began to riot within the walls of the city. When the Ouolki arrived, half of the city was empty, and those who remained opened the gates to the Ouolki without a struggle. The city paid the greatest tribute of all, and many of the houses left abandoned were filled with the wandering families of the Ouolki. The Ouolki then sent out two armies from Pellas. One was led by Brennos, and went west to defeat the Botti and the Paeoni, while another led by Acichoros went east and exacted tribute and fealty from the cities there as far as Philippi and the island of Thasos. Ouolki began to settle these cities and farm the lands abandoned by the craven Mapedonni.” From the ashes of the destructive end of the Makedonian Empire, the Wolkae, or Ouolkoi as the Greeks later called them, began to settle and took quick control of the region. They ravaged the tribes along the Strymonas River, decimating the Maedi. They then cut east, and moved down the Bardarios River, assaulting Paeonian and Thracian cities such as Stobi, Dober, and so on, until they marched into the heart of Makedonia. The coming arrival of the Celtic migration had caused such fear that many cities simply surrendered to the oncoming army, not even risking the violence. Many of the Makedonian nobles fled the city of Pellas to Anatolia; however, for those who could not escape, it seemed that death drew nearer with everyday. All accounts agree that a few days before the Wolkae arrived, a riot broke out in Pellas. The remaining nobility in the city insisted that the city man a defense, and hope that they could survive a siege long enough for reinforcements from Anatolia. But the fear within the city was too great, and the people within the city determined that if they gave up the city, their lives would be spared. Chaos held over the city for two days as the opposing sides vied for control of the city gates, until finally the last of the nobility were had either been captured, died, or fled the city. The gates of Pellas opened to the Wolkae without a fight on the ninth day of Scorpio, 274 B.E. (281 B.C.). The Wolkae determined to make Pellas their new base of operations, settling the rest of their families there. Brennos and Acichoros each set out with armies of approximately 60,000 men and began securing the surrounding area. In Anatolia, the satraps and viceroys established independence, seeing that they could no longer rely on Makedonia for protection. Meanwhile, the Boii, who had broken off from the Wolkae army, set about ravaging Thrace. They defeated and exacted tribute from the tribes along the Hebros River, including the Bessi, Sapaei, and Odrysians. Here they settled the Thracian city of Aenus, or Poltyobria, and set up a kingdom that the Wolkae called Bojikika. The Boii attempted to take Byzantion, but were turned back by an army from Bithynia. The Bithynian satrap pushed the Boii advance long enough to secure the surrounding area, but was defeated near Salmydessus by the Boii under Bolgios with the help of the Asti, a Thracian ally. To the South, the Hellenes braced themselves for the coming onslaught of the Galatoi. And they had good reason to. Word soon spread that the Wolkae chieftain Brennos was leading an army of 100,000 men south. Almost half of this army was made of cavalry that used the trimarchisia system, where one cavalry man would be fighting in battle, while two others waited to retrieve his body, replace his horse, or replace him in battle. ![]() Now, here is where historical bias becomes almost unbearable on both sides, because it is hard to discern the true motives of Brennos as he moved south. The Hellenes insist that his intention was to sack Delphi and desecrate the gods; but the histories written by the Ouolki insist that he intended to make the peoples located there into vassals and tributaries. It is likely that both are partially true. The Wolkae were doing a good job of securing the region of Makedonia, and the Greeks to the south remained unconquered. But then again, gold is always a great incentive for a raiding party, though Delphi may not have been his main target. Regardless, by the spring of the next year, Thessaly had fallen. Brennos’ army met little resistance until Thermopylae, where a pan-Hellenic force had assembled to hold off the barbarian Galatoi. The majority of the army was made up of Aetolians, however a sizeable number of Athenians, Argives, Corinthians, and Spartans were assembled. Their army totaled 10,000. Both sides agree on one thing: Thermopylae was a mistake for the Wolkae. They fought for two days, taking heavy casualties. Estimates range from 10,000 to 30,000 fallen Wolkae, while the Hellenes had only taken minimal damage. Frustrated, Brennos had his second-in-command, Iccauos [2] take 20,000 men west to raid Aetolia, hoping it would draw the Aetolians to their homeland and weaken the Hellenic forces at Thermopylae. Brennos had made a gamble, but it worked. Iccauos’ army arrived in Aetolia and wrought such carnage, that the Aetolians left at Thermopylae were forced to leave to defend their homeland. This halved the army assembled at Thermopylae, which was soon overrun. In Aetolia, Iccauos slaughtered the Aetolian army when it arrived. The Aetolian defense was so vicious, that: “The woman and children took up arms to defend not only their homeland, but their very existence. Such was the disparity of their situation.” When Iccauos’ army had finished, Aetolia was devastated. His army took loot, and marched to regroup with Brennos as Delphi. When they met at Delphi, the Wolkae looted the temple and raped the Oracle. As they left, they saw a small Spartan and Athenian contingency of about 1000 men marching towards them. With the higher ground atop Delphi, the Wolkae cavalry passed over the Spartans like a great wave, leaving none alive. [3] The Wolkae continued to raid and loot Hellas for another month until they drew back north to Pellas with all of the riches of the Greeks in tow. However, along the way, a disagreement broke out over the how to divide the spoils. The Hellenic historians simply say the Galatoi had such a lust for gold that they broke into squabbling over it. More specifically, the Ouolki say there was a disagreement over the rights and distribution of the plunder. Brennos wished to keep most of the loot for himself and the men of his tribe, but his generals insisted that the loot be divided equally through all the tribes assembled within the army. The disagreement led to infighting, and a brief battle broke out in Thessaly that the Ouolki call Briga Dibu e Debu, or the Hill of the Gods and Goddesses. It is likely that this is Mount Olympus, near where the Wolkae occupied lands began. In the end of the dispute, Brennos was exiled, and he took the some 20,000 men of his tribe left back north into Illyria, where he fell into historical oblivion. The Celtic Invasions would leave a massive mark on the history of the region, and would directly shape the culture and political climate of the Aegean. ----------- [1] My take on the Gallicization of the word Macedonians with the suffix –rix, denoting royalty. “King of the Macedonians” [2] OTL, Acichoros was Brennos’ 2nd in command at Thermopylae, but ITTL, he is in Pellas securing Macedonia. This is a fictional man fulfilling a similar purpose. [3] OTL, this happened a year later, so there weather was very different. A storm had caused chaos in the Celtic ranks, and forced the Celts to retreat at Delphi without actually sacking it.
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The Weighted Scales: A World of an Aborted Rome Apparently it's the best Ancient TL of 2011. Oh Baby! |
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#960
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very good
![]() but then... its awsome ![]()
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