Confederates in Brazil

[Melvin Loh]

Zoomar's last post just gave me an idea- I recall seeing material about how some disaffected ex-Confederate vets decided to move to Brazil after the CW, but I never really read this stuff in-depth. Another interesting POD: WI the Confederates who settled in Brazil moved there in large enough nos. to try to establish their own separate state ? Would they have then had to fight another civil war against the Brazilian govt authorities ?

[Mike Collins]

I would imagine the Brazilians would have something to say if the Confederates carved out a chunk of Brazil and said it was an independent nation. What would be interesting though would be if the Confederates managed to take over the existing government through legitimate or other means.

For those interested, the Confederate colony in Brazil still exists. They say going into one of the Confederate towns is like going into a town in rural Alabama or Georgia. The only difference is the populace is made up of brown skinned people who speak only Portugese. It seems the Confederates intermarried with the locals and there are no "pure" ones left around.

[Leo Caesius]

Originally Posted by Mike Collins

I would imagine the Brazilians would have something to say if the Confederates carved out a chunk of Brazil and said it was an independent nation. What would be interesting though would be if the Confederates managed to take over the existing government through legitimate or other means.

For those interested, the Confederate colony in Brazil still exists. They say going into one of the Confederate towns is like going into a town in rural Alabama or Georgia. The only difference is the populace is made up of brown skinned people who speak only Portugese. It seems the Confederates intermarried with the locals and there are no "pure" ones left around.

There are a few people around who speak Southron English, but as I understand it, they are generally bilingual in Portuguese (and really really old, too).

Giuseppe Garibaldi, a hero of sorts to me, was involved in a failed attempt at southern secession - in Brazil. The state of Rio Grande do Sul, which borders on Argentina and Uruguay, broke off in 1835 and continued to fight with the Brazilian authorities until 1845 - for a while, Garibaldi was enlisted with the secessionists. Ironically, he was later approached by Abraham Lincoln, who offered him a position in the Union Army (Joe Garibaldi was living in Staten Island at the time, and working as a candlemaker). Garibaldi declined, returned to Italy, and unified the peninsula.

Rio Grande do Sul had a rather cosmopolitan population - mostly Spanish speaking, with many Germans and Irish. If the civil war had succeeded, perhaps Garibaldi would have been given a position in the government (his sort of temperment always appealed to Latin Americans more than it did to the House of Savoy). If that was the case, perhaps Italy would not have been united; the new state would also have been a logical place for confederates to relocate.

I once read an Italian WI book entitled Garibaldi a Gettysburg. The premise is that Garibaldi accepts Lincoln's offer, fights in the American civil war, fails disasterously (causing the Confederates to carry the day) and returns to Italy a broken man. As a consequence, Italy is never united, and Austria controls the north until this very day.

[robertp6165]

Originally Posted by Leo Caesius

There are a few people around who speak Southron English, but as I understand it, they are generally bilingual in Portuguese (and really really old, too).

There are quite a few young people there who are bi-lingual too. The Confederados (as they are called in Brazil) try hard to keep their culture alive. They have one of two Camps of Sons of Confederate Veterans outside the United States down there (the other one is in Europe). Some friends of mine visited the town of Americana a few years ago and came back with reports of people speaking Portuguese with a Southern drawl. LOL

Originally Posted by Leo Caesius

Giuseppe Garibaldi, a hero of sorts to me, was involved in a failed attempt at southern secession - in Brazil. The state of Rio Grande do Sul, which borders on Argentina and Uruguay, broke off in 1835 and continued to fight with the Brazilian authorities until 1845 - for a while, Garibaldi was enlisted with the secessionists. .

Actually, the Confederados did take part in secessionist movement in Sao Paulo State during the 1920s. There was a brief civil war, where the secessionists (including the Confederados) were defeated.