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  #301  
Old April 10th, 2012, 06:12 AM
Daztur Daztur is online now
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I've just started reading this one and am trying to budget it out so that I can actually get some work done instead of spending all day reading this

I really appreciate the amount of research that you've obviously put into this, it does so much to improve the verisimillitude of the timeline.
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  #302  
Old April 10th, 2012, 12:31 PM
wolf_brother wolf_brother is offline
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I've just started reading this one and am trying to budget it out so that I can actually get some work done instead of spending all day reading this

I really appreciate the amount of research that you've obviously put into this, it does so much to improve the verisimillitude of the timeline.
Thank you very much

Though, to be honest, the downside of my dedication to research is the time involved. The dearth of updates lately is largely due to my choice to pause the timeline at such an awkward moment, from a writer's point of view, to devour several works on China and East Asia so as to improve on upcoming updates that will cover that region (spoilers: no Second Opium War ITTL).
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  #303  
Old April 11th, 2012, 01:25 AM
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Thank you very much

Though, to be honest, the downside of my dedication to research is the time involved. The dearth of updates lately is largely due to my choice to pause the timeline at such an awkward moment, from a writer's point of view, to devour several works on China and East Asia so as to improve on upcoming updates that will cover that region (spoilers: no Second Opium War ITTL).
Interesting…
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  #304  
Old April 15th, 2012, 09:35 PM
RandomWriterGuy RandomWriterGuy is offline
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This is a very detailed timeline. however, what is the POD of it?
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  #305  
Old April 15th, 2012, 10:57 PM
Grand Prince Paul II. Grand Prince Paul II. is offline
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This is a very detailed timeline. however, what is the POD of it?
From wolf_brother's second post:

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... The Sonderbund cantons, with the exceptions of Lucerne and Fribourg, sought and obtained permission from their respective Landsgemeindes (cantonal assemblies) for general conscription between the end of September and the opening of October; troop mobilization was complete by 19 October. Two days later, the radical majority in the Tagsatzung voted to dissolve the Sonderbund by military force. The same day, the Diet elected General Guillaume-Henri Dufour of Geneva (4) as commander in chief of the federal army, despite his reluctance and the efforts of the Bernese government to appoint Ulrich Ochsenbein (5) to this post. In his letter of acceptance to the Diet of 22 October, Dufour emphasized that he would "do everything in order to alleviate the inevitable evils of war."

On 24 October, immediately prior to taking the oath of office, Dufour requested explanations concerning his orders (which were written in German) and, after an impolitic remark by the representative of Vaud, Jules Eytel, declined the office and left the meeting of the Diet. (6) After two days, Ochsenbein was sworn in as the Swiss General in his stead on 26 October. Two days later he appointed his division commanders, four representing the radicals, and three for the conservatives, reflecting his somewhat liberal reputation within the Diet. Among his most controversial appointments were Louis Rilliet de Constant of Vaud, Giacomo Luvini-Perseghini of Ticino for the radicals, and conservative Peter Ludwig von Donatz of Grisons.

(6) This is the POD. IOTL it took two emergency closed sessions, and a delegation of the representatives of Geneva, to convince Dufour to reconsider and to be sworn in on 25 October. ITTL he remained unconvinced and returned to Geneva.
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  #306  
Old April 21st, 2012, 06:36 AM
CaliBoy1990 CaliBoy1990 is online now
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It's been a long time since I've checked this TL out, and so far, I'm liking what I'm seeing here. Especially this bit:

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"I believe Sociocracy is the grandest theory ever presented, and I am sure it will someday rule the world.
Then men will be content to work for the general welfare and share their riches with their neighbors
."
- former industrialist, philanthropist, and NAC Premier Andrew Carnegie
1 January 1885

As the five o'clock whistle cried high and shrill, Joshua Mouller wiped the sweat from his brow, sighing heavily as he stepped back from the crate he had just set down. Arching his spine to dig his knuckles into the small of his back, he turned to take the long walk to the clock-out station, briefly chatting with the next man coming on the line, his neighbor Jacob. It had been a long day, though he had only worked a half shift after classes, even five hours as a dock worker in one of the largest and busiest ports in the world would leave anyone exhausted. The money was good though, and he certainly was learning more here than he ever did in the public school system. He couldn't wait until his birthday next month when wouldn't have to attend school at all; then he could really start making his fortune at the pier. Of course then again, Joshua mused to himself, once I turn sixteen I might not stay at the docks.

Mouller followed the mass of workers, shuffling in herd mentality out of the port's storage facilities and repair shops and off of the company grounds. Not all of them were lowly workers. Here and there Mouller could see a petty bourgeoisie, and even a patriciate from a distance, heading for the landing pads to fly above the city's hustle-and-bustle in their private autos (1); though of course in the latter's case they were almost always new money. You'd never see a patriciate from the revolution at the New York docks. While most of his fellow workers would make their way home via the public systems, either underground or in the sky, Mouller was one of the few who owned a personal motor vehicle. Of course then again Mouller didn't live in New York City proper, he lived on Long Island, more approximately in Modernopolis, which took a long time to commute, even when using the East River bridge, or the newer Long Island Sound tunnel (2). Once again, the money was very good for an industrious, experienced, dockworker in one of the world's busiest harbors. It also didn't hurt that Mouller's father had served in the Navy during the revolution, retiring after the Tripartite War to work in the docks before moving to Medernopolis. Suffice it to say that he had a lot of pull with the Harbor Guild, and was largely why Joshua had a job well outside of his home town.

Mouller soon was out of the harbor district, walking to the public park where he had left his own vehicle parked. It'd be damn nice if the Port Authority would allow us to build a dedicated garage for parking our velos & wagons in. Joshua knew that wasn't likely though, the management and the ownership had had a twelve-year running brawl extending back into his father's time at the docks over building the landing pad for the autos; nobody in the guild was going to be likely to take up the cause again for a less popular form of transportation. Joshua smiled though just a few minutes later as he came around the corner and beheld his pride and joy.

Two shining steel wheels held up a black-blue chassis the color of the sea on a cloudy night. Joshua ran his hands over the handles and down the steering column, admiring the craftsmanship that had gone into his vehicle. It had taken him nearly six months, but he had finally saved up enough for his very own FR-87 Scout. She was a modern marvel, her 750 cc air-cooled side-valve two-stroke twin rotary engines could push the velo to a top speed of nearly two hundred and fifty kilometers per hour, from naught to 100 km/h in less than ten seconds (3). Made in the Detroit Motor Combine, the Scout was in short the fastest production in the world that didn't fly, and Mouller was the one of the few people in the Greater New York area to own one - a fact he was quite proud of.

Straddling his pride & joy, Joshua thumbed the ignition button. He loved the sound of the velo coming to life, the high-pitched whine of the primary electric motor followed seconds later by the tenor roar of the secondary petrol engine. Reaching into his side-pack near the back wheel, Mouller pulled out his leather coif and bourgundian sallet. He knew several other velo-enthusiasts who didn't wear a helm of any type, not even the coif, and Mouller himself hadn't until last year when his neighbor had tried going out for a ride after having a few smokes at the local bar without one. The man's wife still wore black, though the widow's year was up; she swore she always would for the last of her days. It was a sobering thought, which was why Mouller was startled out of his reminiscing by a voice behind him and the feel of a stranger's hand on his shoulder.

"Perdón, but is that a Scout?"

The voice and hand belonged to the same man, a rather portly looking fellow, well-tanned, what some might call brown even. Clothed in overalls of the local style yet made too-handsomely, covering a well-to-do button-up shirt, the gold buttons reflecting the evening's fading light in sharp contrast to the dull gleam of the plain copper fasteners of the courser material. Below a well groomed if extravagant mustache was a wide, smiling face, revealing some of the cleanest ivory-white teeth Mouller had ever seen. Wonderful, Joshua thought as he returned the smile, shaking the man's hand as friendly as he could be; tourists.

His fears were soon realized when his new acquaintance, who revealed his name to be Diego García, a 'financial adviser director' by trade, whatever that might be, introduced his small family - his wife, Sofía, a rather put-out looking housewife who might have been a real looker in her youth, but right now was merely more than somewhat ruffled and apparently bored, and his son, Alejandro, a youth not that much younger than Mouller himself, who looked about with barely concealed wonder at the strange city, and was obviously ready to bolt at any moment from his parent's watchful eye. Diego explained that they were on on vacation from Veracruz, though of course he was quick to state that he worked in México City himself, on one last family outing before young Alejandro took his Grand Tour the following summer. Diego rambled on in this way for some time, revealing, in what Mouller quickly understood to be his native characteristic, an overly friendly, casual, and yet energetic approach to life. He talked of his life, his business, his hometown, his marriage, and perhaps most frankly of all his wife, going into such intimate details that Joshua's face was quickly turning the same shade of crimson as the setting sun, and though he continually expected it Diego's wife never rebuked him for his overtly-casual airs with such a complete stranger about their most intimate memories. Indeed she was now dusting off the top of a nearby large crate before perching upon the edge of the case, her sultry dark skin and even darker eyes revealing some of the beauty that Mouller had missed on his first estimation as the evening turned to night and the electric and gas lamps of the city flicker to life around them. Indeed Mouller soon found himself all-but openly staring, his thoughts drifting to tales told by his older comrades who had joined the services after a round of the pipe of Latin beauties found south of the old border..

Thankfully Mouller was pulled away from these thoughts as the conversation shifted yet again, this time to velocipedes (4). "Oh yes, you know, I've always wanted a Scout." Diego declared, smiling broadly as he ran his hand along the smooth sweep of the rear fender. "But of course, you know, the tariff blockade..." With a sigh the middle-aged man stepped back to enjoy the view of the velo once again, obviously happy but not exactly content to merely have touched the FR-87. Mouller briefly tightened his grip on his sallet before relaxing, smiling brightly, never more proud of his purchase than now. "You sound like you ride yourself."

"Oh yes," Diego happily stated, settling down beside his wife now, though still appreciatively gazing at the Scout, practically leaning off the crate to be that many more centimeters closer to the velo. "My father bought me my first Johnson was I was younger than Alejandro, and now I own two Heinz-Pierce's, as well as an Excelsior."

"The Super-X?" Joshua asked excitedly, wheeling his own velo around now to properly face his new compatriot.

"The very one. I believe the Scout only beat her time at the Indianapolis ring by less than naught-point-one, correct?" Diego asked with a knowing smile, showing to any third party that might have happened upon the discussion that he was well aware of the truth of his statement and was only hoping to draw Mouller further into the conversation. Joshua though, was too young, too inexperienced, and above all too excited now to be talking with a foreigner, let alone one who knew something about his favorite past time to notice, or perhaps even to care. The conversation continued on this way for quite some time, until Mouller finally had to let his idling Scout rest before he drain his charge, or potentially worse, burn through his small ten liter tank of petrol.

Soon Joshua became aware of the lateness of the hour, and the fact that his ma' would be worrying about him if he didn't return soon double-quick, and what his father might say about him staying out so late on a school day talking with a Mexican tourist about velos. Mouller's father was a hard man, and he might even force Joshua to leave his after-school job in order to 'focus on his studies.' Mouller hated school work, and dreaded the thought of going through another two years of schooling, or worse yet - being forced to attend university when he turned eighteen. Diego was now rambling on about a Norton C♭, an Anglo-Germanic model that Joshua knew nothing about, though his own patriotic senses told him that it couldn't be faster than the Scout. Thirty-five break horsepower simply couldn't be possible on something with merely a single 450cc petrol engine, that would be almost double the power of Mouller's own vehicle but with half the weight! Choosing not to comment upon this absolutely implausible fable, Mouller waited for a pause in the conversation to finally excuse himself.

"Well it's been nice talking with ya'll, but I..."

"Perdón yet again, but I must ask, for I sincerely doubt such an opportunity will ever present itself before me again; how much for such a wonderful vehicle?"

Although it was an egregious request, Joshua couldn't help but laugh as the stuffy old Mexican pulled a wad of bills from his pocket, offering them to Mouller, exclaiming about the 'hundreds' he would hand over for the Scout.

"Somebody has played you for a fool, friend." Mouller explained as gently as possible. "I know in other lands paper money is usually considered more than coinage, but here it is not so. Here, let me show you. Those labor notes that you have are worth several times that what you must have exchanged them for at customs."

Mouller could tell that Diego was still lost, and now Mrs. García and Alejandro were looking on as well. Joshua decided to try approach the issue from a different angle.

"Look here, one labbie is worth enough food to feed one man for a single day, from one hour's hard work. So what you have there would be enough to feed you and your family for several months, or to purchase one goodly keepsake to show your friends and co-workers back in Veracruz. Now you have some dollar coins as well? No? Oh, well in that case then you'll have to do some work to earn some more labbies so you can afford your trip, eh? Last time I checked the newspapers labbies were trading ten-to-one against dollar coins at the New York Exchange, your family could put in one day's somewhere and then trade the bills for some hard specie."

Mouller could tell that this news was not met well by the confused and dejected looks upon the García family's faces, though he couldn't blame them. What normal bourgeois from a power like Mexico could have expected to have to work for their keep while on their hard-earned vacation? Thinking quickly Mouller offered a second choice.

"You could always try going to the Mexican Embassy, do you know where it is? Yes, good. Perhaps they will help you, surely you can't be the first travelers from your country to have been so, ah.. confused as you were regarding Yankee currency."

Ending on this amiable note, Mouller once again fired up his pride & joy, giving additional directions to Diego and his family to several important monuments and popular tourist sites within New York City, such as the Stock Exchange, St. Anne's, and the Wall of Revolutionary Martyrs, before finally strapping his sallet on tightly and riding off into the night, hoping to arrive home before his father, though oddly jubilant even with such a dire threat looming over him. Perhaps Pa-pa will believe me when I tell him about Mr. García. After all, he is always telling me I need to learn how to cooperate with others.



(1) Autoplanes; in this case they are essentially small gyrocopters used for personal transport, though larger quad- and even hex-rotor designs are used for transportation, industrial, and military applications.

(2) IOTL's Brentwood, New York, a relatively small city with a population of just over 50,000 souls. Originally founded as Modern Times, an anarchist, utopian, commune by Josiah Warren to promote his mutualist theories; Modern Times continued to grow & thrive until the 1870s, when inflation from the US Civil War, and immigration to the city by those who didn't share the same socialist libertarian philosophy, and often who were new immigrants to the country in general, eventually led to its dissolution. The town was only reformed as Brentwood in 1907 as a home for the Ross Health Resort by one Dr. William Ross, who believed that the smell of pine needles and fresh air was medically effective at combating various lung diseases, especially for those who lived in industrialized cities.

ITTL Modern Times remains an isolated community, steadily growing in size even after the War Between the States, though it does still drop its original, quite unwieldy, name.

Josiah Warren founded Modern Times, and its sister commune of Utopia, Ohio, as a way to promote his philosophy, which was in many ways a merger of the best of Robert Owen's Cooperativism and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon's Mutualism. IOTL Warren's own work, on individual liberty at least, was highly influential, not only in anarchist & socialist circles, but even in liberal thought. John Stuart Mill explicitly took up the principle of the sovereignty of the individual from Warren. In economic matters however Warren is considered the father of modern anarchism, and his principle of cost the limit of price is considered the corner-stone of contemporary anarchist economic thought. 'Cost' in this instance refers not to the monetary price paid for an item or service on purchase, but instead to the labor exerted to first produce said item or service. Warren based this principle on his experience owning and managing his Cincinnati Time Store, in which customers would purchas goods with labor notes, which represented a legal contract to perform labor of equivalent value in return for the purchased goods, with a 4% mark-up, and the standard of one hour of labor being pegged to twelve pounds of corn. The store was not only popular, but widely successful, and Warren nearly drove many of his competitors out of business until he unexpectedly closed his shop after three years to expand on his theories by settling Modern Times. ITTL Warren goes on to field several more communes beyond Modern Times and Utopia, and they have more time to mature and grow.

(3) Yes, the Americas will use metric ITTL.

(4) If you haven't figured it out yet, 'velocipede' is the ITTL name for motorcycles, from the Latin vēlōx ('swift') and ped ('foot').
Too bad about America using metric, though. ()....still, can't wait to see how TTL's automobiles develop.(If you would like some ideas, I would be more than happy to help you out, btw.)

Also, If you want my take on personal flying transport......it sounds like an interesting idea and perhaps it could be semi-affordable for some well-to-do people, at least in 1st-world nations. Can't really see it quite going the Model-T route, though, you'd probably need ASB intervention for it to go that far.(the main thing is, you'd have so many flying vehicles so close to one another, there'd be bound to be many, many unfortunate accidents. I do believe you pointed out that 30,000 motor vehicle fatalities occur on average IOTL; here, we could see fatalities easily a couple times that, perhaps up to 5 or even 10x more. I'm kinda glad this hasn't happened IOTL, tbh.)
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  #307  
Old April 21st, 2012, 02:52 PM
wolf_brother wolf_brother is offline
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It's been a long time since I've checked this TL out, and so far, I'm liking what I'm seeing here. Especially this bit
Well I'm glad you're enjoying it so much

Quote:
Too bad about America using metric, though. ()....still, can't wait to see how TTL's automobiles develop.(If you would like some ideas, I would be more than happy to help you out, btw.)
I have the chronology pretty well done at this point, but please go and head and PM what you have in mind, I'm always open to other insights.

Quote:
Also, If you want my take on personal flying transport......it sounds like an interesting idea and perhaps it could be semi-affordable for some well-to-do people, at least in 1st-world nations. Can't really see it quite going the Model-T route, though, you'd probably need ASB intervention for it to go that far.(the main thing is, you'd have so many flying vehicles so close to one another, there'd be bound to be many, many unfortunate accidents. I do believe you pointed out that 30,000 motor vehicle fatalities occur on average IOTL; here, we could see fatalities easily a couple times that, perhaps up to 5 or even 10x more. I'm kinda glad this hasn't happened IOTL, tbh.)
I have to say, I'm particularly tickled by how such a small throw-away line in one post is generating almost as much commentary as whole pages of updates normally would

To respond to this point more properly, all I'll say for now, to quell further commotion over the subject, is that all of you will have to wait and see
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  #308  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 06:17 AM
Hnau Hnau is offline
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wolfbrother, you are a prodigious writer. I am still enjoying this timeline greatly.
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  #309  
Old April 26th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Nanwe Nanwe is offline
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wolf_brother, a question, I know that you are busy reading and preparing stuff for Asia's TTL development among other stuff right now, but would new chapters be up faster in summer?
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  #310  
Old April 27th, 2012, 07:15 AM
wolf_brother wolf_brother is offline
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wolfbrother, you are a prodigious writer. I am still enjoying this timeline greatly.
Thank you very much

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wolf_brother, a question, I know that you are busy reading and preparing stuff for Asia's TTL development among other stuff right now, but would new chapters be up faster in summer?
Unfortunately no, my schedule isn't one of a student any more

Honestly things are just getting stuck up right now because I've been putting off doing the Chinese chapter for so long now. I could continue on at a relatively good clip if I turned my focus back to Europe if I wanted to, but that would only postpone the inevitable.
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  #311  
Old May 1st, 2012, 07:25 AM
Nanwe Nanwe is offline
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Unfortunately no, my schedule isn't one of a student any more

Honestly things are just getting stuck up right now because I've been putting off doing the Chinese chapter for so long now. I could continue on at a relatively good clip if I turned my focus back to Europe if I wanted to, but that would only postpone the inevitable.
So are you planning on making China suffer BIG changes from OTL, perhaps a successful Taiping Rebellion?
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  #312  
Old May 1st, 2012, 08:33 AM
Grand Prince Paul II. Grand Prince Paul II. is offline
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So are you planning on making China suffer BIG changes from OTL, perhaps a successful Taiping Rebellion?
It looks like it, see the spoiler-ish map wolf_brother posted two months ago in the ninth map thread.
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  #313  
Old May 1st, 2012, 09:01 AM
Nanwe Nanwe is offline
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It looks like it, see the spoiler-ish map wolf_brother posted two months ago in the ninth map thread.
Thanks, I usually can't find them once I've seen them once since the map thread are so huge and long :P
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  #314  
Old May 1st, 2012, 12:23 PM
wolf_brother wolf_brother is offline
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So are you planning on making China suffer BIG changes from OTL, perhaps a successful Taiping Rebellion?
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Originally Posted by Grand Prince Paul II. View Post
It looks like it, see the spoiler-ish map wolf_brother posted two months ago in the ninth map thread.
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Thanks, I usually can't find them once I've seen them once since the map thread are so huge and long :P
Man, I hadn't realized how much I had changed my plans from just two months ago
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  #315  
Old May 1st, 2012, 01:02 PM
Nanwe Nanwe is offline
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Man, I hadn't realized how much I had changed my plans from just two months ago
The good thing with you wolf_brother is that you change the future of the timeline so often that it is spoiler-proof
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  #316  
Old May 1st, 2012, 01:25 PM
wolf_brother wolf_brother is offline
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The good thing with you wolf_brother is that you change the future of the timeline so often that it is spoiler-proof
Ha, well, you know me and my research. I finally got a smart phone so I can do a little light reading on the side when its quiet at work. Its so much easier using the internet to find sources than having to rely on the local libraries.
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  #317  
Old May 4th, 2012, 11:22 AM
Nanwe Nanwe is offline
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wolf_brother, I found a spoiler (I hope it's up to date) of what Greece is expecting.

Quote:
So how will the Svoyards put that weak man in charge of Greece, obviously he wont have the headache of ruling over Spain as IOTL but will Italy create some kind of spehere in the Balkans liek they tried OTL?
Also you put there that Amadeo's eldest son is also king, so I suppose that Greece will have a shaky story with several coups and countercoups between monarchists and republicans?
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  #318  
Old May 4th, 2012, 12:50 PM
wolf_brother wolf_brother is offline
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Goodness, now everyone finds the spoilers I've been sprinkling across the boards for months

Yes, Italy will exert some (considerable) influence in Greece, and Greece will have a shaky history ITTL; neither of which shouldn't be that surprising considering how well positioned a successfully united 1848-Italy would be, and considering how weak the foundations of the Greek state were even IOTL.
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  #319  
Old May 4th, 2012, 01:54 PM
Nanwe Nanwe is offline
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Goodness, now everyone finds the spoilers I've been sprinkling across the boards for months

Yes, Italy will exert some (considerable) influence in Greece, and Greece will have a shaky history ITTL; neither of which shouldn't be that surprising considering how well positioned a successfully united 1848-Italy would be, and considering how weak the foundations of the Greek state were even IOTL.
I also found a certain African migrations' map but sadly I have no idea of what happened there in the 19th century so I won't quote it, I'd be just content with a larger Spanish empire in Africa and perhaps early discovery of oil in Equatorial Guinea (it took a year after decolonizing it for oil to be found )
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  #320  
Old May 4th, 2012, 02:05 PM
wolf_brother wolf_brother is offline
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I also found a certain African migrations' map but sadly I have no idea of what happened there in the 19th century so I won't quote it, I'd be just content with a larger Spanish empire in Africa and perhaps early discovery of oil in Equatorial Guinea (it took a year after decolonizing it for oil to be found )
Jonathan Edelstein, one of our community's few African experts, could probably put it in context for you.

As for the Spanish in Africa, well, you'll have to wait and see. I don't want to spoil everything before I actually get to it

Finally, I think its important to remember when considering the oft-brought up 'colonial oil' scenarios that without a pressing demand for a large supply, no matter how much oil the European powers discover in their colonial holdings its not very likely to get developed.
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