Alternate histories have been written where Japan adopts Christianity, but what if somewhere in history, Japan becomes predominanty Jewish. Granted, the faith as practised in Japan may be tweaked from that practiced in Europe and elsewhere. Produce a TL where Japan is mostly (or wholly) Jewish by 1889, and bring it tyo the present day.
AH Challenge: Jewish Japan
- Thread starter Wendell
- Start date
Well those Natives on the northern islands are suppose to be the remains of the ten lost tribes,
But that may be a little to far back to start, or maybe not.
600 bc
Babylon attacks and carries the ten tribes of Israel off into Captivity, while the two tribes of Judah remain.
500 BC
With Babylon falling the people of Israel attempt to return home, with a Assyrian Army to the West, they flee east to attempt to go around it.
300 BC
After many Adventures and Misfortunes The Remains of the Tribes, still calling themselves the Sons of Israel, find themselves under attack in Korea By a larger army, Fleeing Eastward in Boats, they come to a very sparely inhabited Island.
200 BC
The First Koreans mostly Fishermen start visiting the Islands to the east. there they find a people who worship one god, and practice certain rituals to mark themselves. the Fishermen land and setup small villages Marrying some of the local Girls. As Culture and Religion is passed down thru the Females, the Children are raised as Israelites.
150 BC
The First attempt by Korea to Conquer the Islands is repulsed by the rebuilt Israelite Army. But the Peaceful immigration continues, with the Israelites managing to keep a slight Majority, and Cultural advantage.
100 BC
There had been several small attempted invasions over the last fifty years, but this was a major attempt, and It succeeded in taking several Coastal towns and holding them. Major immigration of Koreans, Not just Fishers and Farmers but All levels of Craftsmen, and others.
75 BC
A Attempt to enlarge the Korean Holding is a Disaster as the Israelites, taking revenge for 25 years earlier not only defeat the Koreans, but take back the Holdings.
The Israelites now find themselves with a large Korean Cultural Community, They can't get rid of. Over the next Fifty Years, more and more of the Oriental Culture is adopted by the Israelites, while they retain their Religion.
25 BC
Merchants from China start Visiting The Islands which they call Nippon, With then they bring their Language, The Books of Genesis and the Torah are written down in this new Language.
1436 AD
Vinco De Gama is astonished when after visiting China, he continues North and discovers a Land that worships Yehovah, and call themselves Israelites. In his Log records the Chinese Name for the island,
Japan
I know this is not what Wendall was after, and my Dates are ASBish,
But it is two in the morning, I was about to turn off the Comp, walk the dog and go to bed, But this just came off the top of my head.
Enjoy it anyway.
But that may be a little to far back to start, or maybe not.
600 bc
Babylon attacks and carries the ten tribes of Israel off into Captivity, while the two tribes of Judah remain.
500 BC
With Babylon falling the people of Israel attempt to return home, with a Assyrian Army to the West, they flee east to attempt to go around it.
300 BC
After many Adventures and Misfortunes The Remains of the Tribes, still calling themselves the Sons of Israel, find themselves under attack in Korea By a larger army, Fleeing Eastward in Boats, they come to a very sparely inhabited Island.
200 BC
The First Koreans mostly Fishermen start visiting the Islands to the east. there they find a people who worship one god, and practice certain rituals to mark themselves. the Fishermen land and setup small villages Marrying some of the local Girls. As Culture and Religion is passed down thru the Females, the Children are raised as Israelites.
150 BC
The First attempt by Korea to Conquer the Islands is repulsed by the rebuilt Israelite Army. But the Peaceful immigration continues, with the Israelites managing to keep a slight Majority, and Cultural advantage.
100 BC
There had been several small attempted invasions over the last fifty years, but this was a major attempt, and It succeeded in taking several Coastal towns and holding them. Major immigration of Koreans, Not just Fishers and Farmers but All levels of Craftsmen, and others.
75 BC
A Attempt to enlarge the Korean Holding is a Disaster as the Israelites, taking revenge for 25 years earlier not only defeat the Koreans, but take back the Holdings.
The Israelites now find themselves with a large Korean Cultural Community, They can't get rid of. Over the next Fifty Years, more and more of the Oriental Culture is adopted by the Israelites, while they retain their Religion.
25 BC
Merchants from China start Visiting The Islands which they call Nippon, With then they bring their Language, The Books of Genesis and the Torah are written down in this new Language.
1436 AD
Vinco De Gama is astonished when after visiting China, he continues North and discovers a Land that worships Yehovah, and call themselves Israelites. In his Log records the Chinese Name for the island,
Japan
I know this is not what Wendall was after, and my Dates are ASBish,
But it is two in the morning, I was about to turn off the Comp, walk the dog and go to bed, But this just came off the top of my head.
Enjoy it anyway.
The Sandman
Banned
Maybe more Jews reach China via trade and expulsion. When Japanese envoys start visiting China in the 600s, they also encounter a thriving Jewish population in the port cities along the Yangtze. Jewish ideas get imported along with everything else the Japanese borrowed while in China, the Japanese take a liking to them, and suddenly Jewpan is born.
POD - Mid 1st Century AD - As a responce to the Christian movement, Jewish leaders make several changes to Judaism to make it more of a missionary religion.
2nd - 5th Centuries AD - Judaism spreads across the Roman Empire. During the time of Constantine the Great, who ended all religious persecution, the empire was half Judaic and half Christian, with Pagans forming a small minority. Judaism is more present in the west, in places like Gaul and Hispania.
6th-8th Century AD - Hispania is under the rule of Christian Visigoths. In the late 600s, the King becomes a Jew, but following his death civil war breaks out.
701 - Arab rule begins in Hispania. Judaism remains in the Kingdoms of the North.
10th Century - 1492 - Slow collapse of Islamic spain results in the Jewish Kingdoms of Castile, Aragon, and Portugal to retake the Iberian Peninsula. Castile and Aragon unite to form Spain.
Late 1400s - Christians and Muslims expelled from Spain.
16th - 17th Century AD - Rise of the Spanish Empire. Areas as far as the Phillipines conquered, and forcibly converted to Judaism.
1690 - Spanish attacks begin on the islands of Japan. Despite heavy resistance, the islands will fall under Spanish rule, under the colonial name of "Nueva Galicia".
late 17th Century AD - 1878 - Nueva Galicia is forcibly converted to Spanish Judaism.
1878 - Nueva Galicia rebells against the Spanish Empire, declaring itself the independent state of Nihon.
2nd - 5th Centuries AD - Judaism spreads across the Roman Empire. During the time of Constantine the Great, who ended all religious persecution, the empire was half Judaic and half Christian, with Pagans forming a small minority. Judaism is more present in the west, in places like Gaul and Hispania.
6th-8th Century AD - Hispania is under the rule of Christian Visigoths. In the late 600s, the King becomes a Jew, but following his death civil war breaks out.
701 - Arab rule begins in Hispania. Judaism remains in the Kingdoms of the North.
10th Century - 1492 - Slow collapse of Islamic spain results in the Jewish Kingdoms of Castile, Aragon, and Portugal to retake the Iberian Peninsula. Castile and Aragon unite to form Spain.
Late 1400s - Christians and Muslims expelled from Spain.
16th - 17th Century AD - Rise of the Spanish Empire. Areas as far as the Phillipines conquered, and forcibly converted to Judaism.
1690 - Spanish attacks begin on the islands of Japan. Despite heavy resistance, the islands will fall under Spanish rule, under the colonial name of "Nueva Galicia".
late 17th Century AD - 1878 - Nueva Galicia is forcibly converted to Spanish Judaism.
1878 - Nueva Galicia rebells against the Spanish Empire, declaring itself the independent state of Nihon.
A few hundred years ago (don't remember exactly), an area somewhere between the Caucasus and the Ukraine (also dont remember exactly) was declared Jewish by its leader to distinguish itself from the surrounding places (Christian, Muslim, and others). In reality, the (mostly) herders living there had rather something like pre-christian animalistic believes which just had a few similarities to Jewish religion due to proximity to the Middle East. They were converted to "real" Judaism at the will of the leader, as was common at the time.
Naturally, a Jewish country bordered by countries with low opinions of Judaism will have trouble finding allies in a war against anyone and is therefore likely to cease to exist eventually.
My PoD would be the following: A leader of that area realizes the danger his empire is in and takes some steps to let the religion and therefore (in the long term) his state expand into the surrounding territory.
That not only includes missionaries, but also sending settlers to more or less unoccupied places. Furthermore maybe agreeing with surrounding states to allow all of their respective missionaries in each others territory, and/or grant them passage to further away places, and/or grant freedom of religion at least in bordering states (that might also cause a lot of PoDs).
To the west, the Jewish missionaries are still in trouble, so most go to the east and north-east. Some of the more simple religious believes of the area are pretty easy to convert, so there are more allies among religious lines and therefore a longer lasting empire. Also, the religion spreads into areas with more religious tolerance or diversity.
Beginning in India, but even more so in China and Japan, the missionaries face the problem that the believe systems there are actually more logical than western theism - they don't need any God or gods, they just accept them as personal taste. They accept rules, but also don't see someone as eternally damned if he or she has to break some of them (More Yin and Yang, less God and Devil). And so on.
The Jewish scholars of above mentioned state, also enlightened more due to allowing eastern preachers into their country, adapt their religion a little bit - God is made synonymous to the Yin-and-Yang principle, angels (including the fallen one) are reduced to myths and equal to similar western and eastern gods, demons, and so on, the world and it's rules are determined to be logical and not spiritual, even including the people, and a little bit more. The Tora is adapted accordingly (not the first time sth. like this happens to a religion).
Due to this change, the religion penetrates much of east Asia quickly. Including Japan, which makes the religion her state religion by 1888.
Naturally, a Jewish country bordered by countries with low opinions of Judaism will have trouble finding allies in a war against anyone and is therefore likely to cease to exist eventually.
My PoD would be the following: A leader of that area realizes the danger his empire is in and takes some steps to let the religion and therefore (in the long term) his state expand into the surrounding territory.
That not only includes missionaries, but also sending settlers to more or less unoccupied places. Furthermore maybe agreeing with surrounding states to allow all of their respective missionaries in each others territory, and/or grant them passage to further away places, and/or grant freedom of religion at least in bordering states (that might also cause a lot of PoDs).
To the west, the Jewish missionaries are still in trouble, so most go to the east and north-east. Some of the more simple religious believes of the area are pretty easy to convert, so there are more allies among religious lines and therefore a longer lasting empire. Also, the religion spreads into areas with more religious tolerance or diversity.
Beginning in India, but even more so in China and Japan, the missionaries face the problem that the believe systems there are actually more logical than western theism - they don't need any God or gods, they just accept them as personal taste. They accept rules, but also don't see someone as eternally damned if he or she has to break some of them (More Yin and Yang, less God and Devil). And so on.
The Jewish scholars of above mentioned state, also enlightened more due to allowing eastern preachers into their country, adapt their religion a little bit - God is made synonymous to the Yin-and-Yang principle, angels (including the fallen one) are reduced to myths and equal to similar western and eastern gods, demons, and so on, the world and it's rules are determined to be logical and not spiritual, even including the people, and a little bit more. The Tora is adapted accordingly (not the first time sth. like this happens to a religion).
Due to this change, the religion penetrates much of east Asia quickly. Including Japan, which makes the religion her state religion by 1888.
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Do you have anything on these tribes supposed to be in Japan?
That sounds...really odd. The only decent lost tribe I know of is those black Africans.
This is hard to do without changing the Jewish religion so much that it becomes much more christian. Judaism is not a religion that encourages conversion of people, its actually dead set against it...
That sounds...really odd. The only decent lost tribe I know of is those black Africans.
This is hard to do without changing the Jewish religion so much that it becomes much more christian. Judaism is not a religion that encourages conversion of people, its actually dead set against it...
There are several websites which claim that the Japanese people - not just the Ainu in the far north - are descended from Israelites. See http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracame.htm or http://www.biblemysteries.com/library/tribesjapan.htm , both sites with the theories of Arimasa Kubo, or a brief note at http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=325&letter=T indicating that the theory is a bit older.Leej said:
Let's also not forget that basically all of the Middle East and some surrounding territories was predominantly Jewish before Christianity and later Islam arrived.
Also, both Islam and Christianity result from Judaism. It's not too difficult to imagine another offspring, closer to the roots of Judaism, but more expansionist.
Furthermore, as Jews who lived in an area for a long time usually can't be distinguished from local populations of other believes by looks, it's pretty save to assume there was a lot of mixed relationships, which is also a method of spreading a religion.
Also, both Islam and Christianity result from Judaism. It's not too difficult to imagine another offspring, closer to the roots of Judaism, but more expansionist.
Furthermore, as Jews who lived in an area for a long time usually can't be distinguished from local populations of other believes by looks, it's pretty save to assume there was a lot of mixed relationships, which is also a method of spreading a religion.
What would Judaeo-Shintoism look like? Also, more importantly, what would Judaeo-Shintoism have made Japan look like by 1868?
Hendryk
Banned
Like the WI about Jewish China, this one leaves out a fundamental aspect of East Asian spiritual traditions, which is their total absence of concern for orthodoxy and dogmatic purity. I am no expert on Judaism especially in its rabbinical form, but judging from the Old Testament it places a huge emphasis on a) the preservation of orthodoxy and b) the obliteration of competing creeds; see in particular Exodus 32:25-29 and Deuteronomy 7:1-6 and 7:25-26. Both priorities would be utterly incomprehensible from the perspective of East Asian cultures (and I won't even go into culinary taboos: good luck to anyone who attempts to convince the Japanese that seafood is impure 
). So whichever way it reaches Japan, Judaism would either have to "go native" until it had changed beyond recognition, or remain the creed of a small minority of the population.
). So whichever way it reaches Japan, Judaism would either have to "go native" until it had changed beyond recognition, or remain the creed of a small minority of the population.Hendryk said:Like the WI about Jewish China, this one leaves out a fundamental aspect of East Asian spiritual traditions, which is their total absence of concern for orthodoxy and dogmatic purity. I am no expert on Judaism especially in its rabbinical form, but judging from the Old Testament it places a huge emphasis on a) the preservation of orthodoxy and b) the obliteration of competing creeds; see in particular Exodus 32:25-29 and Deuteronomy 7:1-6 and 7:25-26. Both priorities would be utterly incomprehensible from the perspective of East Asian cultures (and I won't even go into culinary taboos: good luck to anyone who attempts to convince the Japanese that seafood is impure
I'm not to sure about this interpretation. To me, some eastern philosophies appear to be much more logical than western spirituality, and therefore even more pure in this sense.
There is great tolerance towards spiritual believes - gods, dragons, demons and so on - which appears similar to ancient and therefore not very respected believes in the west. But under this surface one can find a very clear structure which doesn't need those elements. Among better educated Asians, those Gods imo appear to be not too much more than astrology, miracles, or the likes to us.
This is unlike Greek and Roman gods, who are essential to their respective believe systems, and also unlike most monotheist believes, which also rely completely upon their god.
This non-spiritual basis avoids a lot of the open questions in western believes: Who created God? If God always was, why not just have an eternal universe? Why the split into a physical and a metaphysical world - which in effect means two universes have to be explained instead of just one? And so on. It was already difficult to turn Greece and Rome into monotheist places, even though there is great progress. But with Asian philosophies, I cannot see any progress due to adapting any monotheist religion. Rather the opposite. And many Asians probably think so, too.
But I do agree with you that especially in the popular dealings with their religion, those Gods are very important - to me, that's more a sign of tolerance, though.
And I also see an advantage in the rigidness of monotheism: I believe it's an important reason for the rise of Europe after the renaissance, as it created the foundation for a very strong intellectual disciplin. Still, I see it more as strictness than as purity. And not as very logical.
As I don't want to start another one of the many "Does God exist?" threats, I will just let this stand as a post trying to explain the rather slow spread of monotheism to parts of Asia.
Hendryk said:Like the WI about Jewish China, this one leaves out a fundamental aspect of East Asian spiritual traditions, which is their total absence of concern for orthodoxy and dogmatic purity. I am no expert on Judaism especially in its rabbinical form, but judging from the Old Testament it places a huge emphasis on a) the preservation of orthodoxy and b) the obliteration of competing creeds; see in particular Exodus 32:25-29 and Deuteronomy 7:1-6 and 7:25-26. Both priorities would be utterly incomprehensible from the perspective of East Asian cultures (and I won't even go into culinary taboos: good luck to anyone who attempts to convince the Japanese that seafood is impure
Well, Jewish monotheism and its priorities might be incomprehensible to the East Asian cultures of OTL, because they developed differently and did not have a monotheistic religion as one of their main cultural influences. In a world where Judaism, or another monotheistic religion, had a greater influence on the culture and views of China or Japan, you might see a society where there is a much greater concern with religious orthodoxy, and where most people take it as an axiom that there is a one correct way of belief, rather than many possible interpretations.
Wendell said:
I'd say, anything is possible, in any direction. Like fashion, religions can come and go - sometimes even equally fast. I'd just consider it difficult. Also, it appears to me as if the spread of Christianity was helped by a lot of unlikely factors - a slow decay of the Roman Empire, a few unusual celestial happenings, a few wheather catastrophies, and so on. Such a doomsday feeling would probably not be as likely to happen again.
Also, I'd say there is a direction towards more and more realism. In the West, Demons and the likes were replaced by Gods when it became possible to understand day to day happenings, and only unusual occurrences were not understandable. Gods were replaced by an abstract God when it became clear that a godly soap opera was a little bit too human. More and more secular thinking even bytes at the remaining believes. In the Far East, the development was (and is) in the same direction, but on a slightly different path: Instead of abolishing old believes, they were supplemented by more and more advanced ideas - probably mainly to avoid unnecessary religious conflicts.
Therefore, as some of the ideas developed in Asia are imo at least as advanced as the ones in western religions, it's imo a little bit unlikely (but not impossible) for western religion to become dominant in Asia without some changes which some would consider major changes.