Query Could Turkey have been a dangerous Nazi ally

[Derek Jackson]

Is there any post 1900 pod which makes Turkey both a significant military force and an ally of Hitler?

If so is it as big a problem as it looks from a cursory view of the map?

[usertron2020]

Franco dallied with the Axis plenty, but as far as I know the Turks were basically telling the Nazis what they wanted to hear. I don't think the Nazis trusted the Turks enough to maintain what would have amounted to a Second Front in Asia Minor.

[GTAmario]

No, their army could barely fight WWI and hadn't been modernized.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Turkey has no interest in joining the Axis.

[Roslin's Wig]

Weren't the Turks "untermenschen" in Hitler's eyes?

[Typo]

Originally Posted by Roslin's Wig

Weren't the Turks "untermenschen" in Hitler's eyes?

Hitler's racial beliefs was more or less arbitrary, and really flexible when it comes to anyone other than jews and slavs

[TyranicusMaximus]

Originally Posted by GTAmario

No, their army could barely fight WWI

History begs to differ.

Also, there was no Republic of Turkey in WW1.

[The Kiat]

Their army might not have been particularly impressive, but it's existence alone would force the British to divert further units to the Middle East to protect oil supplies. They'd probably end up being another Italy for the Reich.

[Chengar Qordath]

Just to toss another factor into the mix. Britain went to a lot of trouble to buy up Turkish supplies of strategic war materials like Chromium to keep them out of German hands. Presumably, an Axis Turkey would be providing said materials to the Germans.

[Life In Black]

Turkey joining the Axis becomes a burden for the Germans. Germany couldn't supply and equip its own forces without severe bottlenecks in production and distribution. Turkey would require the Germans to not only equip and train at least a handful of Turkish divisions and their airforce, but to accomplish this while fighting in both Africa and Russia, both of which taxed the limits of the Germans supply capabilities.

[Derek Jackson]

Could Turkey have rearmed effectively at some stage prior to 1939?

[Life In Black]

Originally Posted by Derek Jackson

Could Turkey have rearmed effectively at some stage prior to 1939?

In the short term, maybe. Like Germany though, any funds and resources used for the military means something important and vital gets neglected. About the only thing Turkey could accomplish for the axis would be tying down British and Russian forces in the Middle East.

[Chengar Qordath]

Would the benefits Germany gains by having access to Turkey's supply of strategic materials like chromite be enough to create a significant difference for Germany's production situation? Given the lengths the British went to in order to keep Turkish chromite out of German hands, one would think that having access to those materials might be of benefit for Germany's production capacity.

[Plumber]

Turkey has nothing to gain from joining either side in WWII. So it didn't.

[Beedok]

Turkey needs to stay neutral. Have you guys ever played as them in the civ II WWII scenario? You get crushed as soon as you make a move by someone.

[Life In Black]

Originally Posted by Chengar Qordath

Would the benefits Germany gains by having access to Turkey's supply of strategic materials like chromite be enough to create a significant difference for Germany's production situation? Given the lengths the British went to in order to keep Turkish chromite out of German hands, one would think that having access to those materials might be of benefit for Germany's production capacity.

IMHO, probably not. Not only are there supply issues, but Germany's pruduction capability was awful. They changed designs and intruduced new ones so often that significant amounts of both time and resources had to be wasted on retooling machines and retraining workers. Germany would have to hold on to the Med or failing that, keep at least air-parity with the Soviets and station Flak units and Luftflotten in Turkey to stop British (and possibly American) bombers to ensure supply isn't interrupted too badly. Fixing one of these issues doesn't solve the other one.

[Chengar Qordath]

Originally Posted by Life In Black

IMHO, probably not. Not only are there supply issues, but Germany's pruduction capability was awful. They changed designs and intruduced new ones so often that significant amounts of both time and resources had to be wasted on retooling machines and retraining workers. Germany would have to hold on to the Med or failing that, keep at least air-parity with the Soviets and station Flak units and Luftflotten in Turkey to stop British (and possibly American) bombers to ensure supply isn't interrupted too badly. Fixing one of these issues doesn't solve the other one.

Have to agree with you there; having a few less material bottlenecks might help a bit, but it won't fix the fundamental problems that plagued German industrial production throughout the war, and keeping the supply lines to Turkey open will probably eat up a lot of the production gains Germany gets from having more material

[Citizen Samuel]

Ataturk's personal motto was something along the lines of "Peace abroad, peace at home". I can't see any scenario where he'd join the Axis.

[Chengar Qordath]

Originally Posted by The Gonzo

Ataturk's personal motto was something along the lines of "Peace abroad, peace at home". I can't see any scenario where he'd join the Axis.

Of course, Kemal came down with a nasty case of death in 1938, so that's not as much of an impediment to an Axis Turkey as it could be.

Originally Posted by Beedok

urkey needs to stay neutral. Have you guys ever played as them in the civ II WWII scenario? You get crushed as soon as you make a move by someone.

Technically, they did join the Allies, but seeing as that was in 1945 it was a fairly obvious token declaration so they could say they were on the winning side.

That's probably the most likely way you could get an outright Axis Turkey as well; Turkey's not likely to throw it's lot in with either side until the war is a foregone conclusion. However, you could end up with a Turkey that favors the Axis a bit more in diplomacy and trade than it did OTL.

[BlairWitch749]

i have no opinion on this matter or how it could affect the world stage