Wi: No Islam?

What if Persia became christian somehow circa at the same time as Rome did and then East Rome and Persia realize the "danger" of the uprising islam. They put their armies together, fought the muslims and forced christianity on the Arabs successfully.
What would the world look like in the middle ages, the early modern times etc.?
 
Persia DID fight the Muslims in several battle and those were pretty massive armies, as well. They did not disregard the Muslim threat at all, they were just incompetent. It doesn't matter since the Sassanids didn't have capable military leaders. Both the Eastern Romans and the Sassanids fought the Caliphate and they were both defeated.
 
First things first-the Sassanians already had a monotheistic religion with Heaven and Hell. They were never going to adopt Christianity, which did exist in the Persian Empire.

Second things second-why, necessarily, would either of them see the Muslims as a threat or directly collaborate to destroy it? Why wouldn't they just use the Lakhmanids and the other one to destroy this particular Arab Irruption while using their real armies to fight each other?

Third things third-in 200-300 years much of the world would be unrecognizable, arguably quite a bit of it for the worst, some of it for the better.
 
First things first-the Sassanians already had a monotheistic religion with Heaven and Hell. They were never going to adopt Christianity, which did exist in the Persian Empire.
Just to quickly pick you up on this- by the time of the Islamic conquest, Christianity was very widespread in Persia, and Christians (albeit of various different denominations) probably outnumbered Zoroastrians in Mesopotamia. Persia could well have gone Christian, given various Shahs had Christian wives. For Persia to adopt Chalcedonian Orthodoxy is admittedly unlikely though.
 
Persia doesn't have to go Christian for the powers to combine against the Moslems. Just assume they had spies in Arabia who alert them that the new religion's followers are a major threat and they act accordingly.

Possible outcome: the Moslems continue to exist, but hold only the eastern side of the Red Sea coast and adjacent badlands for a long time afterwards. Sassanid Persia lasts until the dynasty fails or it succumbs to a major attack from the east (probably by the Turks). Byzantium keeps a much larger core empire (including Egypt, Syria and the Holy Land) for a longer time, but is always under some threat from the east and north, so does not try to regain western Europe. Whether it withstands the eventual Turk attack, and the later Mongol one, is anybody's guess.
 
As people seem to have problems with Persia going Christian and because I like PODs to be as late as possible, could Mohammed be assassinated before gaining many converts?
 
Have him be killed instead of managing to escape to Medina. No assassination in the sense of a Persian or Byzantine assassin necessary.
 
I don't think that Islam can be eliminated by military forces from Persia. It would at least survive as a local sect on the Arabic peninsula.

Moreover, I think despite all wars, theological and military threats, and diplomatic and cultural ties: The first really indispensable, unundoable implications of the Muslim world to Europe come into effect after the fall of Byzantium.
It was very crucial for self-definition of Europe (and their American off-springs) that the Rennaissance had contact to three types of heathens: The Muslims, the native Americans, and the ancient Roman and Greek Pagan authors. Taking one group out of this combination would cause very significant consequences in a philosophical way.
 
I don't think that Islam can be eliminated by military forces from Persia. It would at least survive as a local sect on the Arabic peninsula.

Moreover, I think despite all wars, theological and military threats, and diplomatic and cultural ties: The first really indispensable, unundoable implications of the Muslim world to Europe come into effect after the fall of Byzantium.
It was very crucial for self-definition of Europe (and their American off-springs) that the Rennaissance had contact to three types of heathens: The Muslims, the native Americans, and the ancient Roman and Greek Pagan authors. Taking one group out of this combination would cause very significant consequences in a philosophical way.

The Sassanians or the Byzantines (or both) curbstomp then the Riddah Wars start up all over again........
 
I don't think that Islam can be eliminated by military forces from Persia. It would at least survive as a local sect on the Arabic peninsula.

No, probably not, but there's also another scenario I can imagine...

The Byzantines and the Persians are more successful against the Muslims, and a large portion of the Caliphal military is destroyed. The prestige of Islam is hugely damaged, tribes began to break away, and at some point, the Muslim leadership itself gets into a series of civil wars. Islam atomizes, and by 700 the Arabian pennensula has, politically, gone back to the way it was before Islam. No one wrote down the Quran or hadith, so Muhammad has become something of a legendary figure, with different versions of his teachings circulating (though they all seem to agree that Muhammad was a strict monotheist and had nice things to say about Christ).

At this point, at least some of the different "Muslim" sects are going to start identifying themselves with Christianity, most likely the non-Chalcedonianism of Egypt and Syria. Gradually, as Coptic and Jacobite influences penetrate more into Arabia, this becomes more common (no one really knows the specifics of what Muhammad said by this time, so the idea he was really a non-Chalcedonian Christian isn't all that farfetched). Eventually, a non-Chalcedonian "Church of Arabia" forms, which regards Muhammad as a great Saint, a legendary figure who tried to bring the gospel of Christ to the heathen Arabs. Nice hagiographic writings of Muhammad's saintly life are produced, with little relation to reality. Ultimately, he's remembered as a minor historical figure in a rather peripheral part of the world.
 
Christians will never accept Mohammed as a Christian, because he founded Islam, which is not Christian.

If Christians could mistake a statue of Marcus Aurelius for one of Constantine I, I think Mohammad being seen as some kind of heterodox Christian, in the way Mirza suggested, is doable.
 
Didn't people back saw Muslims as Christian heretics at first? :confused: Without Islam, you wouldn't have Arabic spreading beyond the peninsula so the area will still be mostly Aramaic, Coptic, etc.
 

Starseed

Banned
What if Persia became christian somehow circa at the same time as Rome did and then East Rome and Persia realize the "danger" of the uprising islam. They put their armies together, fought the muslims and forced christianity on the Arabs successfully.
What would the world look like in the middle ages, the early modern times etc.?

I'll post so the usual suspects don't have to:


How dare you.. I mean, why hasn't this been locked? It's obviously a racist white-wank with a side of christdom-wank.

Wah-wah.
 
I am for sure NO racist! And I`m not even christian/religious. I just asked because of interest. Nothing more, nothing less.

@ Mirza Khan: Very good, I really like your "option". Maybe I`ll use it in some TL.:)
 
Didn't people back saw Muslims as Christian heretics at first? :confused:

Yes, at least partially.

Without Islam, you wouldn't have Arabic spreading beyond the peninsula so the area will still be mostly Aramaic, Coptic, etc.

I don't have a clear opinion on that. It is quite conceivable that Arabs will spread whatever their religion may be - perhaps even if they are most heterogeneous in religion.

No, probably not, but there's also another scenario I can imagine...

No one wrote down the Quran or hadith,

I'm getting second thoughts about that now. Wasn't the Quran taken down during Mohammed's lifetime?
 
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