Several Comic Book What-Ifs and What-If Seeds

The Premise: Rereading my JUST IMAGINE STAN LEE (in which, for
Soc.History.What-if Members, Stan Lee, the guy responsible for about 75% of
Marvel Comics' Silver Age Charecters, Especially Spider-Man, The X-Men, and
the Silver Age and later version of Daredevil, Asks what if he had worked
for DC instead of Marvel and had come up with the DC Superheroes like
Batman, Superman, Aquaman and Green Lantern) books made me wonder, how would
Marvel's Heroes have faired if "Old Faithful" had come up with them rather
than "The House of Ideas?" Each of these WIs is a self-contained oneshot, in
that each swapped charecter represents a completely different What-If.

1962: (Point of Divergence) While Trying to Decide between the Jack Kirby
drawing of Spider-Man and the Steve Ditko version, each with a different
origin, powers, and Civillian I.D., Stanley Martin Lieber (AKA Stan Lee)
notices a "doodle" Steve had been doing for a charecter called "Blue
Beetle," and decides to run with that charecter instead. The Marvel Blue
Beetle makes money for the company, even if it isn't quite the homerun
Spider-Man was OTL. As a result, there is no Ralph Bakshi Spider-Man cartoon
in 1968. Blue Beetle eventually joins the Avengers and becomes buddies with
Hawkeye and Iron Man, but overall, with the exception of the Peter David and
John Byrne runs of his third series in the '90s, he is basically as obscure
as Plastic Man. Steve Ditko leaves Marvel less than a year later, first for
Charelton and then for DC, and his art chores at Marvel are taken over by
John Romita Sr. Stan Lee's Anti-Drug storyline of 1969 is a Daredevil one.

1970: Showcase #84 Features the debut of Spiderman, Written by Denny O'Neill
and drawn by Steve Ditko, it's the same origin story as OTL, only with less
overt narration.

1971: SPIDERMAN #1 (March #1) Written by Denny O'Neill and drawn by Steve
Ditko (The Kirby Version Became Fang, A villain Kirby would use in his runs
on TEEN TITANS and SUPERMAN'S PAL; JIMMY OLSEN) Becomes DC's first Home Run
hit of the Bronze Age.

1974: Steve Ditko gets out of mainstream comics. Mike Grell takes over art
duties as of SPIDERMAN #43 (September) Peter starts getting backups in
ADVENTURE COMICS

1976: By this time, the Spideman backup in ADVENTURE COMICS has, due to
popular demand, taken over the book, although Superboy and Supergirl
continue to have occaisional backups. Spiderman becomes the first DC hero
other than Superman and Batman to have more than one monthly solo book at a
time. The Earth 2 (Golden Age DCU) storylines are shifted to THE BRAVE AND THE
BOLD.

1977: Denny O'Neill Leaves with SPIDERMAN #99. Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway
each do a story line.

1978: Marv Wolfman and George Perez take over with SPIDERMAN#110. SPIDERMAN
#112 Features the debut (but not the origin) of Firestorm.

1979: SPIDERMAN #120 Features Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane Watson leaving for
College in California. ADVENTURE COMICS #464 feaures the debut of Black Cat.

1980: DC PRESENTS #27: Debut of the third incarnation of the TEEN TITANS, as
Peter Parker joins his first team. SPIDERMAN #141 features the Debut of the
Jackal

1981: Beginning of the Spiderman-Raven-Black Cat and Raven-Spiderman-Kid
Flash love triangles. Alan Moore and Steve Engelhart take Over SPIDERMAN
with #161. ADVENTURE COMICS # 487 features the debut of Vigilante II.
AMAZING SPIDERMAN(Vol. 1) #1 (August) Features the Debut and Apperant death
of the Clone.

1982: CBS Commisions a Teen Titans cartoon based on the Wolfman-Perez work,
but with Robin already in the Superfriends, leadership duties are split
between Starfire, Wonder Girl I, and Spiderman. Hannah-Barberra completes an
hourlong pilot and four regular episodes, but CBS rejects it after the board
watches the pilot, though the anti-drug episode is run on PBS. Bootlegs of
the pilot become popular at comics conventions until Warner Home Video
releases all of it on DVD in 2003.

1983: Spiderman joins the Superfriends on CBS along with his buddies
Firestorm and Cyborg, and thus is written in to the tie-in comic book, too.
He also joins the Outsiders. BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #1 features the first
Todd McFarlane Spiderman artwork.

1984: Dave Gibbons takes over writing and art duties. In SPIDERMAN #183
Spidey unmasks as Peter Parker to Black Cat/Felecia Hardy, and his marriage
proposal is rejected. Hardy is presumed drowned in ADVENTURE COMICS #517.
With the Debut of CAPTAIN CARROT AND HIS AMAZING ZOO CREW and SPIDER-HAM,
Spidey's comic exposure (in all his various forms) reaches its height.
(SPIDERMAN, ADVENTURE COMICS, AMAZING SPIDERMAN, TEEN TITANS vols 3 and 4,
TALES OF THE TEEN TITANS, BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS, SUPERFRIENDS, CAPTAIN
CARROT (As Peter Porkchops) and SPIDERHAM(as Peter Porkchops). TEEN TITANS
vol4. #4 features Spidey nearly dying trying to save Raven from Trigon's
Posession, and both agreeing to be "Just Friends." AMAZING SPIDERMAN Vol.1
#33 Features the return of Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane. BATMAN AND THE
OUTSIDERS # 15 introduces the Symbiont Spidey suit. SUPERFRIENDS the comic
book is canceled after 116 issues.

1985: CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. Gwen Stacy dies at the hands of the Green
Goblin, but the Anti-Monitor is at least partially to blame. Spidey quits
the Teen Titans and the Outsiders. ADVENTURE COMICS and AMAZING SPIDERMAN
vol.1 are canceled.

1986 SPIDERMAN is the only DC superhero book not a Batman or Superman title
not to be reset to issue #1 after CRISIS. CBS cancels SUPERFRIENDS.
SPIDERMAN: KISS OF THE BLACK WIDOW miniseries part of DC's CLASS of '86,
written by Grant Morrison and drawn by John Byrne. SPIDERMAN # 209 Features
Peter graduating from CUNY Manhattan, quitting stringing for the DAILY BUGLE
and going to work for the New York branch of STAR Labs. In TALES OF THE TEEN
TITANS #22, The Jackal dies at the hands of Deathstroke the Terminator, or
at leats appears to.

1987: Todd McFarlane and Mike Grell alternate writing and art chores each
storyline starting with SPIDERMAN #217. Spidey gets rid of the symbiont.
SPIDERMAN #220 features the Debut of Venom. Dana Carvey does a Spiderman
spoof on SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE.

1988: FLASH Vol3 No. 28 features the marriage of Wally West and Linda Park.
Peter Parker is the best man since Dick Grayson, Gar Logan, and Vic Stone
are indesposed at the moment. SPIDERMAN #228 features the return of Black
Cat, and the debut of the Post-CRISIS Huntress, Helena Bertinelli.

1989: Mike Grell quits Spiderman to focus on GREEN ARROW. Todd McFarlane
takes over AMAZING SPIDERMAN vol.2 #1 while SPIDERMAN from #238-305 doesn't
feature the same creative team twice for each story line, although Frank
Miller's time on both art and writing occur in this period.

1990: CBS commissions a live action _Spiderman_ TV pilot, written and
directed by Sam Raimi and featuring Ted Raimi as Peter Parker/Spiderman,
Kristy Swanson as Gwen Stacy, Dann Florek as J. Jonah Jameson, and Bruce
Campbell as Norman Osborne/Green Goblin.) It never aires on TV.

1992: After failing to get control of one (or more) of the Batman books,
Todd McFarlane leads the so called "Titanic Flight," along with Rob Liefield
(TALES OF THE TIITANS, JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA), Erik Larson (HAWKMAN,
ROBIN), Jim Lee (THE TITANS, TEAM TITANS, ZATANNA), and Alan Moore
(SPIDERMAN, ACTION COMICS, WATCHMEN, SWAMP THNG vol.2) Leave DC to form
Image Comics. Todd McFarlane's SPAWN, and Eric Larson's SAVAGE DRAGON are
seen by some people as cathartic expressions of their respective experiences
at DC, and others as examples of the decay of subastance wrought by of the
Iron Age of Comics. Peter Parker/Spiderman has several guest appearences on
the run of _Batman_The_Animated_Series_.

1993-4: Green Lantern storylines "Emerald Twilight," "Zero Hour," and "The
Final Night," catylize the CLONE SAGA, although the real inspiration may
have been "The Death and Life of Superman," and "Knightfall"meta-arcs. It
ends with Ben Reilly (who really IS the original) sacrificing himself to
save the world (and Venom) from the Green Goblin and the Jackal. Peter ends
up with Reilly's memories as well as his own, secure in his identety as
Spiderman, since all the other clones are made certain to be dead by the end
of the storyline.

1995: AMAZING SPIDERMAN vol.2 is canceled at issue 77. SPIDERMAN leaves the
newstand market, naver to return. (It can form that point on only be found
in comic shops.) SUPERMAN/SPIDERMAN: WEDDING BELL BLUES miniseries, as Peter
Parker and Mary Jane Watson tie the knot in the same ceremony as Clark Kent
and Lois Lane. Pete also has a few Guest Apperances on
_Superman_The_Animated_Seires.

1997: The Garth Ennis/Jack McKenna run on SPIDERMAN from #326-334, generally
regarded as the nadir of the book. Grant Morrison teams Spidey up with
ex-teammates Huntress, Firestorm, and Flash Wally West for JUSTICE LEAGUE OF
AMERICA Vol. 3. JUSTICE LEAGE OF AMERICA, Vol.3#7 features the debut of
Brown Recluse, the Crime Syndicate version of Spider-Man. _Spiderman_ (1997)
Starring Tobey Maguire as Peter Parker/Spiderman, Reese Witherspoon as Gwen
Stacy, and Allyson Hannigan as Mary Jane, Matt Damon as Jason Osborne, John
Goodman as Dr. Octopus, and Joe Pantoliano as Hitman. Directed by the
Wachowski Brothers based on their script, and pioneering several FX
technologies they would perfect with the _Matrix_ movies. It beats out
_Batman_and_Robin_, _Steel_, _Spawn_, and _Blankman_ as best superhero movie
of 1997 by a large margin.

1998: Debut of _Spiderman:_The_Animated_Series_ and SPIDERMAN ADVENTURES..
SPIDERGIRL, written by Peter David and drawn by Frank Quitely, Debuts. She
is Anita Alverex y Morales, an inner city teen living in East LA who
accidently interrupts a nasty magical ritual, and gains her powers from it.
Her father is an TV investigative reporter. Peter David takes over writing
SPIDERMAN, too KINGDOM COME features Mayday Parker as Spiderwoman and best
friends with Iris West/ Kid Flash and Lian Harper/Arrowette. Peter and
Mayday side with Batman and Green Arrow against Superman and Wonder Woman..
SPIDERMAN: TANGLED WEBS miniseries by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale.

1999: Beginning of the Kevin Smith run on SPIDERMAN with #355.

2000: _Spiderman_2_ written and directed by Sam Raimi. Features Willem DeFoe
as Norman Osborne/Green Goblin, and a version of the "Death of Gwen Stacy"
storyline. Makes even more money than the original. Arrowette quits Young
Justice after nearly going over the edge to comepete in the Olympics. Also
competing is Spidergirl in gymnastics. After foiling a terrorist plot, she
is invited to join Young Justice. Spidergirl accepts.

2001: _Spiderman_The_Animated_Series_ goes off the air into rerun
syndication. Debut of Cartoon Network's _Justice_League_ which Spiderman
joins. JUST IMAGINE STAN LEE WITH ALAN MOORE CREATING SPIDERMAN features a
Navajo medicine man named Gary Gray Eagle.

2002: _Spiderman_3_ written by David Hayter and Directed by Sam Raimi,
features Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin, and the return of Joe
Pantoliano as Hitman. It and Marvel's _X_Men_2 bury _Attack_of_The_Clones_.
Glenn Murakami acknoleges to WB management that a Teen Titans cartoon based
on the Wolfman/Perez group would threaten to overexpose Spidey, so they go
with Young Justice instead. Red Tornado quits mentoring Young Justice to
rejoin the Justice Society. Spiderman beats out Snapper Carr for his
replacement.

2003: Beginning of the Geoff Johns/Jim Lee run on SPIDERMAN with #400
SPIDERMAN average sales top 150,000 in the direct market.(IE comics shops.)
SPIDERMAN ADVENTURES is cancelled after 60 issues. SPIDERGIRL is cancelled
after 65 issues, though Anita continues in Young Justice.

2004: AMAZING SPIDERMAN vol. 3 #1 written by Brad Melzer and drawn by
Michael Turner (SUPERMAN/BATMAN). _Spiderman_4_ Featuring Christina Ricci as
Raven, and Ron Pearlman as Deathstroke, written by David Hayter and directed
by the Wachowski Brothers, squares off against _Daredevil_ starring Ben
Affleck as Matt Murdoch/Daredevil and Carmen Electra as Elektra Natchios.
Tobey Maguire officially hangs up his tights. Debut of
_Justice_League_Unlimited_. SPIDERMAN #411 has a major tie-in with IDENTITY
CRISIS. (IE Basically Spidey quits the League after learning about what
happened to Batman)

2005: In _Villains_United_, Doctor Octopus joins the Secret Society of
Supervillains, while the Green Goblin joins the Secret Six.
_Infinite_Crisis_ features Peter Parker landing in the hospital (literally)
courtesy of Superboy Prime.

2006: SPIDERMAN and AMAZING SPIDERMAN become two of the very few DC Ongoing
Superhero books (The others are ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN, ACTION COMICS,
BATMAN, DETECTIVE COMICS, BATMAN: GOTHAM NIGHTS, HAWKGIRL, FIRESTORM, and
the Johnny DC books) not to be reset to #1 after INFINITE CRISIS. JUSTICE
by Alex Ross and Paul Dini features Green Goblin and Rhino in the Injustice
Gang,and Spiderman is rubbing shoulders with both Barry Allen (who he didn't
ever rub shoulders with while he was alive outside of "Superfriends") and
the Billy Batson Captain Marvel. THE SPIDERMAN debuts on Cartoon Network
and Kids WB, subcontracted out to a Thai animation studio (and it shows).
 
Last edited:
1958: The Point of Divergence: With Lev Gleason Comics on the auction block,
DC's management decides to by not just the presses they did OTL, but the
original art and intelectual property as well. With the Silver Age slowly
blooming, access to some of the original pioneering work in non-superhero
crime books (like CRIME DOES NOT PAY) as well as the likes of superheroes
like the Silver Streak would seem to help give DC a leg up on the competition
at Harvey, Charrlton, and Quality. Julie Schwartz notices a particular charecter,
the Bart Hill Daredevil, and asks Mort Weisinger if he could do a revamp of him,
while Gardner Fox is considering a revival of Doctor Midnite. Fox later changes
his mind, but the conversations in the bullpin give Schwartz a marvelous idea:
why not combine the two?

1959: Debut of the Silver Age Daredevil in SHOWCASE #20. Written by Julie
Schwartz and drawn by Carmine Infantino. He is Matt Bowens, a resident of
Seaboard City and an Assistant District Attourney, and his gold and red
costume with a large black D in the chest features large but blunt butting
horns, a pitchfork with a business end that can be shot out of the shaft to
be used a a grappling hook, and eye holes, even though he dosn't need them.
The character is such a hit that he gets his own book four months later.

1960: Daredevil is a charter member of the Justice League of America.

1962: CRISIS ON EARTH 3 storyline of JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA features the
debut of Blindside, the Crime Syndicate version of Daredevil.

1964: Jullie Schwartz quits DAREDEVIL to focus on the BATMAN books. Gardner
Fox takes over writing chores.

1965: CRISIS ON EARTH 7 storyline, which has installments in both JUSTICE
LEAGUE OF AMERICA and DAREDEVIL features Matt Bowen meeting Bart Hill and
other current and former Lev Gleason superheroes for the first time.

1966-9: the _Batman_ live action TV show features the Caped Crusader going
after several Daredevil rogues, including The Owl, the Siren, Captain
Harpoon, and the King of Hearts. Daredevil and Martian Manhunter become the
only charter members of the Justice League not to mentor members of the Teen
Titans. Darevdevil's broadcast debut happens in a Justice League short on
"Superman/Aquaman Hour."

1970: Gardner Fox retires. Carmine Infantino is booted upstairs. Denny
O'Niell takes over writing duties, and artwork is taken over by Jack Kirby.
Daredevil's costime is redesigned, deleting the cape, and changing the color
scheme to solid red with a two black Ds. In JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA,
Daredevil and Green Arrow slowly become pals, and Matt frequently has to
play peacemaker between Bruce and Ollie.

1973: Kirby returns to Marvel. Mike Andryeko takes over art duties.
_Superfriends_ debuts on CBS, and Daredevil is a frequent member.

1975: Denny O'Niell quits DAREDEVIL to focus on BATMAN, DETECTIVE COMICS,
and GREEN LANTERN. Steve Engelhart takes over writing chores, to great
critical acclaim but little sales success.

1978: DAREDEVIL fails to survive the DC Implosion. On _Superfriends_, The
Owl joins the Legion of Doom.

1980: Daredevil begins getting backups in ADVENTURE COMICS. Matt and Ollie
quit the Justice League at the same time, for much the same reason.

1983: Daredevil's Backups in ADVENTURE COMICS switch to DETECTIVE COMICS

1985-6: CRISIS ON INFIFITE EARTHS. EARTH-7 (The Lev Gleason universe
earth)is first merged with the Fawcett, Quality, and Charlton earths, before
it is merged with the rest.

1987: DAREDEVIL vol.2 Debuts. Written and drawn by Frank Miller. Origin
changed to include acrobatics training by Bart Hill, martial arts training
by Richard Dragon, and a good friendship with The Question along with his
friendship to Green Arrow. Over the next seven years, in storylines
including THE MAN WITHOUT FEAR, DAREDEVIL VERSUS THE PENGUIN, DAREDEVIL
VERSUS HUNTRESS, LOW MIDNIGHT, and BORN AGAIN, Miller creates several
Daredevil conventions, including love interests Elektra and the Hellena
Bertinelli Huntress, the barrowing of Batman rogues Penguin and Blockbuster,
as well as Green Arrow rogue Bullseye the Clown, and especially the
exploration of the themes of superheroing, the law, and justice.

1993: Fox commisions two different _Daredevil_ live action television
pilots: a serious one featuring Jeff Speakman as Matt Bowens/Daredevil,
Bobbie Phillips as Elektra, and wrestler Mike Alonzo as Blockbuster, and a
campy comedy one featuring Chris Potter as Matt Bowens, Kelsey Grammer as
The Owl, Leslie Anne Warren as The Siren, and Will Farrel as The King of
Hearts. Neither reach the airwaves.

1994: Frank Miller hands off Daredevil to Chuck Dixon and Greg Land to do
SIN CITY starting with Issue 86

1997: Daredevil becomes a charter member in Grant Morrison's revival in the
Justice League with Justice League of America, Vol. 3. Garth Ennis and Jack
McKenna take over with Volume 2 #120

1998: Kevin Smith and Bill Sinkiewicz take over with #138

2000: The Bart Hill Daredevil joins the Justice Society of America, after
accidently falling into the Lazarus Pit of Ra's al Ghoul. (Hey, if Jay
Garrick and Alan Scot can join it, why not Bart Hill?) Matt Bowens and
Batman are the only familliar faces at the Watchtower Ollie sees in Kevin
Smith's GREEN ARROW storyline, "Quiver."

2001: Debut of Cartoon Network's _Justice_League_. Daredevil is a charter
member. Judd Winnick and Tim Sale take over the book with # 182

2004: A Daredevil love intrest becomes a casualty of IDENTITY CRISIS.

2006: In the wake of Infinite Crisis, Matt decides to take a year long
sabbatical. Daredevil Volume 2 is canceled Ed Brubaker and Alex Proyas take
over Volume 3 ONE YEAR LATER.
 
Which of these would work better next?

Captain America: National Periodical Publications decides to give Cap a
debut in his own book rather than testing the waters with an intro story in
ACTION COMICS or ALL AMERICAN COMICS, so Kirby and Simon don't shop him over
to Timely. He debuts too late to join the Justice Society, but he does end
up leading the Seven Soldiers of Victory, and he and Wonder Woman have
several guest shots in each other's book. Cap keeps fighting WWII even
after VJ day, though. His book doesn't get turned into a horror title,
though. Instead, it continues bi-monthly until 1953.

That year, DC's editorial board tries to revive a monthly format for Cap
with an ambitious storyline that tires to cash in on the House Un-American
Activites Committee and the McCarthy hearings, but serendipitously runs
afoul of _Seduction_Of_the_Innocent_ and the congressional hearings
resulting therefrom. In the process, DC makes permanant enemies of Kirby
and Simon (Though to be sure, because throughout the storyline Mr. Rogers
never makes a civillian appearance, DC Post-Crisis can maintain that that
Cap was an Imposter).

Because of this blunder, Cap's Silver Age revival had to wait until 1967,
when he would become John Walker. Unfortunately, due to DC's editorial
direction at the time, He's just as much a jerk (in the eyes of comics fans)
as OTL's USAgent. After three different ongoing series fail, including one
written by Denny O'Niell and drawn by George Perez, he dies heroically
alongside Supergirl (and is erased just like Supergirl) in CRISIS ON
INFINITE EARTHS.

As had happened with Hawkman, Batman, and Superman, The Post-Crisis Captain
America went back to his roots, with Steven Rogers baing fished out of the
North Sea by Aquaman. Then he joins both Post CRISIS versions of the
Justice League, mourns the death of Superman, has ongoing fueds with
Deathstroke, Deadshot, and Lobo, and quits the Justice League to join the
newly reconstituted Justice Society, where he alternates the leadership
duties with Captain Marvel. Of special intrest to comics fans is his fifth
and Current ongoing series, the first 26 issues of which were written by
Paul Dini and inked and colored (painted) by Alex Ross.

Knock On effects:

Golden Age: The reshuffling and rescheduling caused by the POD means that
George Papp shops his charecter Green Arrow to Timely, where he becomes Stan
Lee's first real breakout writing gig.

Silver Age: There is no "Challengers of the Unknown," instead Kirby and
Simon come to Atlas pissed and motivated. The Atlas/Marvel monster era is
cut short as Fantastic Four arrives four years early, kickstarting the Atlas
Silver Age. Also, Kirby and Simon put up more with Stan Lee's ego and
antics, due to the perspective provided by DC. The "Fourth World/New Gods"
storyline is put into the Silver Surfer, Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men
Books.

In addition, Hawkeye's civillian ID is now Roy Harper.

Bronze Age: Chris Claremont Doesn't do the Dark Phoenex Saga or Days of
Future Past, and probably leaves UNCANNY X MEN in 1982 or so.

Iron Age: Kirby helps form Image Comics, tarnishing his name forever.


Iron Man: In the mid fifties, after a junket to Japan by DC brass, one of
them drops an ASTRO BOY manga next to Kirby or Simon's cubicle. While
neither can make heads or tails of the text, the pictures inspire them. Two
years and four attempts in SHOWCASE later, Iron Man debuts.

Not much happens until Denny O'Niell's "Hard Traveling Heroes," where he
takes the place of Hal Jordan.

After CRISIS, O'Niell takes over again and adds the parapalegia and
alchoholism. John Henry Irons is an ex-employee. He eventually becomes Lex
Luthor's Secratary of Defense.


Thor: Spun off an early Silver Age Batman Storyline: "Batman, Wonderwoman,
and Thor!"


Hulk: Martin Goodman puts his foot down on the Hulk as "Not a hero." In
the Seventies, Kirby brings Bruce with him and Len Wein writes the book as a
horror title. Ten years later, Wein brings in Alan Moore to write him as
well as Swamp Thing.


Namor: Bill Everett decides to shop the charecter to National Periodical,
where he becomes a villain to Superman, Green Lantern Alan Scott, and Wonder
Woman.

In the Silver Age, he becomes somewhat more sympathetic, especially at the
hands of Denny O'Niell.

In the Nineties, Peter David give Namor and Orin a relationship simmilar to
that between Starfire and Blackfire in the Wolfman/Parez Teen Titans.
 
One POD that might be interesting for you to play around with is that in 1982G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero written by Larry Hama, was originially supposed to be part of Marvel Comics' Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. as part of a team known as "Fury Force". Characters Breaker, Clutch, Flash, Grand Slam, Grunt, Hawk, Rock N' Roll, Scarlett, Short-Fuze, Snake Eyes, Stalker, Steeler, and Zap were all part of the original team. Baron Wolfgang von Strucker was the inspiration for Cobra Commander and Ophelia Sarkissian (a.k.a. Madame Hydra) was the inspiration for the Baroness...
 
Does that mean that Destro was based on Red Skull and Serpentor was based on Hate Monger and/or MODOK?
 
Does that mean that Destro was based on Red Skull and Serpentor was based on Hate Monger and/or MODOK?
Yes it looks like Destro was based on Red Skull, and Serpentor was based on Hate-Monger, although the idea of an octogenerian Adolph Hitler as a villian seems rather strange...
 
The Premise: Rereading my JUST IMAGINE STAN LEE (in which, for
Soc.History.What-if Members, Stan Lee, the guy responsible for about 75% of
Marvel Comics' Silver Age Charecters, Especially Spider-Man, The X-Men, and
the Silver Age and later version of Daredevil, Asks what if he had worked
for DC instead of Marvel and had come up with the DC Superheroes like
Batman, Superman, Aquaman and Green Lantern) books made me wonder, how would
Marvel's Heroes have faired if "Old Faithful" had come up with them rather
than "The House of Ideas?" Each of these WIs is a self-contained oneshot, in
that each swapped charecter represents a completely different What-If.

1962: (Point of Divergence) While Trying to Decide between the Jack Kirby
drawing of Spider-Man and the Steve Ditko version, each with a different
origin, powers, and Civillian I.D., Stanley Martin Lieber (AKA Stan Lee)
notices a "doodle" Steve had been doing for a charecter called "Blue
Beetle," and decides to run with that charecter instead. The Marvel Blue
Beetle makes money for the company, even if it isn't quite the homerun
Spider-Man was OTL. As a result, there is no Ralph Bakshi Spider-Man cartoon
in 1968. Blue Beetle eventually joins the Avengers and becomes buddies with
Hawkeye and Iron Man, but overall, with the exception of the Peter David and
John Byrne runs of his third series in the '90s, he is basically as obscure
as Plastic Man. Steve Ditko leaves Marvel less than a year later, first for
Charelton and then for DC, and his art chores at Marvel are taken over by
John Romita Sr. Stan Lee's Anti-Drug storyline of 1969 is a Daredevil one.

Wouldn't happen that way. Blue Beetle was a Charlton Comics character and had been since 1955 and had been around since 1939. The character even had his own radio serial program in the 40's. Jack Kirby even drew some of his issues during the Golden Age, so he would know who owned the Blue Beetle. Marvel might buy the rights to the character, but that sort of thing wasn't really happening in the early part of the Silver age

Torqumada
 
Wouldn't happen that way. Blue Beetle was
a Charlton Comics character and had been since 1955 and had been
around since 1939. The character even had his own radio serial program in
the 40's. Jack Kirby even drew some of his issues during the Golden Age,
so he would know who owned the Blue Beetle. Marvel might buy the rights
to the character, but that sort of thing wasn't really happening in the
early part of the Silver age

Torqumada

Well then, how about having Martin Goodman buy the rights in 1955 instead of Charlton. It would be before the Atlas Implosion, so he would definately have had the cash. Probably the biggest things that would change in of itself would be that Nite-Owl would be based on Prankster, Sarge Steel, or Gunmaster and the Giffen/DeMathis Blue Beetle/Booster Gold comedy team-up in Justice League International and later works wouldn't have happened.

Besides, things like a lack of ownership of a trademark never deterred Stan from that sort of thing before; look at Wonder Man, or for that matter, Daredevil himself.
 
Interesting. Spidey works very well in the DC universe, as opposed to other characters, and whoever made him a member of the TT is truly awesome!
 
1974: Mike Grell takes over art
:cool::cool::cool:That is the coolest part of this ATL.

1970: Showcase #84 Features the debut of Spiderman, by Denny O'Neill and by Steve Ditko

1977: Denny O'Neill Leaves. Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway
each do a story line.

1978: Marv Wolfman and George Perez take over

1979: SPIDERMAN #120 Features Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane Watson leaving for college in California.
Why get rid of Gwen? AFAIK, Marv & George didn't dislike her; as I understand it, Gerry's dislike was part of the reason she got written out.
1981: Beginning of the Spiderman-Raven-Black Cat and Raven-Spiderman-Kid Flash love triangles.
I find this a bit silly. (I also wonder why Kory never appears, & why Pete never falls for her, instead, given her similarity to MJ.:confused::confused:)
He also joins the Outsiders.
Why?
Dave Gibbons takes over writing and art
Do I understand you to mean he doesn't do Watchmen?:eek::eek::eek:
Spidey unmasks as Peter Parker to Black Cat/Felecia Hardy, and his marriage proposal is rejected.
This one is just too much, IMO. Gwen, maybe...
Spidey's comic exposure (in all his various forms) reaches its height.
Facing competition with Supes? With DC not trying their damnedest to hype Spidey, which Marvel would be doing?
AMAZING SPIDERMAN Vol.1 #33 Features the return of Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane.
Why? More important, why weren't they in the book all along?
BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS # 15 introduces the Symbiont Spidey suit.
Why? AFAIK, Dave had no part in the SW stories introducing it, so why does he create it here? Nor does Shooter, who did, work for DC at this time.
Gwen Stacy dies at the hands of the Green Goblin
Why? Since when is Dave hostile to her? I'm also less than convinced Gobbie would even be created, let alone just happen to kill Gwen, just as he did at Marvel a decade before OTL.
TITANS #22, The Jackal dies at the hands of Deathstroke the Terminator, or at leats appears to.
Why? Again, with the changes in writers & artists, what possible reason can there be for The Jackal, or any of Spidey's other OTL supporting cast, to appear in the DCU at all?
Dick Grayson, Gar Logan, and Vic Stone are indesposed
Very convenient.:rolleyes:
1989: Mike Grell quits Spiderman to focus on GREEN ARROW.
So what happens to Sable?:eek::eek: (Not that I disliked Longbow Hunters, mind.:cool:)
1990: CBS commissions a live action _Spiderman_ TV pilot, written and directed by Sam Raimi and featuring Ted Raimi as Peter Parker/Spiderman, Kristy Swanson as Gwen Stacy, Dann Florek as J. Jonah Jameson, and Bruce Campbell as Norman Osborne/Green Goblin.) It never aires on TV.
I like the casting. (It's "Osborn", tho.)
1995: AMAZING SPIDERMAN vol.2 is canceled at issue 77. SPIDERMAN leaves the newstand market, naver to return.
Whaaat?:confused::confused::confused::confused: Top-sellers get cancelled & taken off stands? When did this happen to Supes or Bats? Never?:rolleyes: So why Spidey?
Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson tie the knot
Not with Gwen still breathing, they don't.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Why do you continue to believe different writers would do the same stories as Marvel in a completely different universe?:confused::confused::confused: Hell, in this alt-DCU, Lois & Clark might end up enemies!:eek:
Grant Morrison teams Spidey up with ex-teammates Huntress, Firestorm, and Flash Wally West for JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA Vol. 3.
So why didn't Giffen & DeMatteis get him for JLI, for which, presumably, he'd be ideal? (At least as good as Ted, & arguably a better foil than Booster. The "2 beetles" joke would be a running gag by p3 of #1.:rolleyes:) OTOH, he appears to be more a team player than the (MU) Pete I know...
Reese Witherspoon as Gwen Stacy, and Allyson Hannigan as Mary Jane
Seriously? Not Charlize & Charisma (with a dye job), frex? (I could feature Famke as MJ, too, with an honorable mention for Ashley Judd & a blonde dye job as Gwen.)
Matt Damon as Jason Osborne
Y'know, with gags like that, you should be writing for Letterman. After all, somebody should.:rolleyes:
The "Dark Punisher"? Or somebody else?

Which reminds me, since so many other of Spidey's supporting cast are around, why isn't he? Or Tarantula? Flash Thompson? Harry?
comepete in the Olympics. Also competing is Spidergirl in gymnastics.
And she passes the drug screening how, exactly?:confused::confused::confused::rolleyes:
Cap ...continues bi-monthly until 1953.

That year, DC's editorial board tries to revive a monthly format for Cap
with an ambitious storyline that tires to cash in on the House Un-American
Activites Committee and the McCarthy hearings, but serendipitously runs
afoul of _Seduction_Of_the_Innocent_ and the congressional hearings
resulting therefrom. In the process, DC makes permanant enemies of Kirby
and Simon
I like the revival idea. I do wonder how DC managed to piss off Jack & Joe, tho. Seeing how this DCU is different...
Steven Rogers baing fished out of the North Sea by Aquaman.
Unless the story is written by Stan & Jack, there's scant reason for it to use the same gimmick. Indeed, it's damned unlikely it would.
Chris Claremont Doesn't do the Dark Phoenex Saga or Days of Future Past, and probably leaves UNCANNY X MEN in 1982 or so.
Why? Because Shooter is less of an idiot?:rolleyes: Or more of one?:eek::eek::rolleyes:
Not much happens until Denny O'Niell's "Hard Traveling Heroes"
Not really much of a Denny O'Niell fan, are you?:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Top