ST: Thread for the discussion and elaboration of ST ideas and POD's

Inspired by threads detailing Star Trek Timelines, I thought I would start a thread people could come to and talk about Star Trek. A thread to discuss timeline ideas and POD's to inspire others. Maybe see more of them.

First topic to start, effects of Vulcan's and Romulans not diverging.

I would think that a few possibilities present themselves in such a situation. One being a split in the population, or a divided world. Possible cold war. Of course such a situation would make a FTL civilization unbalanced as the solar system is now being fought over and other details now would be in contention.
 
I guess you could call the storyline of my ST Armada II mod "Alternative Trek History". Basically I tried to meld the Stafleet Battles/Starfleet Command storyline with the Klingon Academy/Star Trek VI Undiscovered Country one, and add my own stuff too :) I might post the whole thing here some day. Basically it helps blend SFC and the races featured in it (Hydrans, Gorn, Lyrans etc) into TNG (eventually, my mod is purely TMP based).

As for a Romulan-Vulcan unification, I believe there was a series of stories with this sort of alternative timeline. I think they called the new 'Super-Romu-Vulcans" (who were in a much better economic condition than the OTL Romulans) the "Rihannsu" although I could have my wires crossed and be thinking of something else entirely.
 
I couldn't get into the whole Rihannsa stories. It just did not draw me in or I was unable to follow or both. I gave up and moved on to other stories.
 
Well, not the one we're most familiar with. Here's the idea:

During the TNG episode "Parallels," the Enterprise from the timeline overrun with Borg is not destroyed, but Worf still makes it through the quantum field. However, the uncertainty principle Data noted earlier in the episode (alternatively, some other treknobabble) means that a few Enterprises are mismatched, and one in particular, the heavily damaged one captained by a PTSD-suffering Riker from a galaxy filled with Borg, finds its way to OTL, in orbit around earth, in September, 1945.

Notes: This Enterprise is heavily damaged. It's probably incapable of warp speed due to severe damages to its containment field. Given that it's one of the few Federation ships left, it may just have refugees onboard. Worf is on board.


This is from Polish Eagles thread, with permssion, I add it to this thread for discussion. :eek:
 
So this thread is for star trek ideas and cross overs? If so here idea Aleksandr Kerensky and the 80% of the Star League forces departed the Inner Sphere they miss-jumped into a star trek say right after the world war 3 hnn maybe three months after. Push back first contact number of years (yes throw the canon right out the window.) Instead of forming the clans Aleksandr takes what he sees as a chance to rebuild the star league from the ground up.

Rebuild earth maybe set a few colonies up around and out of the sol system later on meeting the Vulcan or maybe another race. Just think Vulcans meeting the earth people on a even setting and becoming partners instead of being the Vulcan little pet humans that lost their spines. Fast forward few hundred years where the Star league or Fed whichever they name they keep Kirk is flying around in a evolved McKenna ship name Enterprise. Lets face it after few hundred years tech between the Vulcans and whoever else joins will be traded back and forth and new inventions will pop up god knows what will happen and what they come up with.
 
Alright...how about the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 from the TOS series, with full crew and so on, is sent back to the time of the English Civil War and the Thirty Years War...
 
The Klingons and Tellarites both seem rather aggressive. I wish ST: Enterprise had done a decent first contact story with the Tellarites.

How did we make friends with the Tellarites and not the Klingons?

It's just as well in terms of storytelling, though. Imagine "Errand of Mercy" with Tellarites.

Nah.

:D:rolleyes:

But is that POD of interest to you guys?

What should have happened in the Nemesis movie? What should Spock and Shinzon have done together? Is it likely the reunification would have happened at the end of that movie?

What if Ceti Alpha V hadn't exploded and Khan's civilization still thrived?

Flint's castle and its moon were a matte painting of Rigel VII; what if Flint had settled on Rigel VII? What if he went back to Earth? Would he regain is immortality? What if he shared his neat tech with the Federation?

The Kelvans in their real form are a hundred feet tall, as I recall. What happens when they meet the Borg?


There are problems with the Vejur story in The Motion Picture. Vejur has supposedly explored the entire galaxy, but it's ignoring all the other galaxies. What happens if it does explore the other galaxies and somebody tracks it back to Earth?

And there's never any indication that Vejur has passed by any of the other planets in any episodes of TNG, DS9 or VOY.

What effects should we expect on all those episodes?
 
The Klingons and Tellarites both seem rather aggressive. I wish ST: Enterprise had done a decent first contact story with the Tellarites.

How did we make friends with the Tellarites and not the Klingons?

It's just as well in terms of storytelling, though. Imagine "Errand of Mercy" with Tellarites.

Nah.

:D:rolleyes:

But is that POD of interest to you guys?

What should have happened in the Nemesis movie? What should Spock and Shinzon have done together? Is it likely the reunification would have happened at the end of that movie?

Are you relating Spock and Shinzon because they both have interests in the Romulan Empire? They never met, but if they did: I would imagine that Shinzon has no more use for Spock's ideals than he does for wanting to keep Earth intact. He wanted to destory it.

What if Ceti Alpha V hadn't exploded and Khan's civilization still thrived?

They would probably be adversarial to the Federation.

Flint's castle and its moon were a matte painting of Rigel VII; what if Flint had settled on Rigel VII? What if he went back to Earth? Would he regain is immortality? What if he shared his neat tech with the Federation?

I have no reference for this. I do not remember encountering this. Is it from TOS? Which series is this?

The Kelvans in their real form are a hundred feet tall, as I recall. What happens when they meet the Borg?

I would imagine that the Borg adapt to this as they do anything else. Larger Alcoves and such.

There are problems with the Vejur story in The Motion Picture. Vejur has supposedly explored the entire galaxy, but it's ignoring all the other galaxies. What happens if it does explore the other galaxies and somebody tracks it back to Earth?

And there's never any indication that Vejur has passed by any of the other planets in any episodes of TNG, DS9 or VOY.

What effects should we expect on all those episodes?

1.) Galaxy/Universe are sometimes used interchangably.
2.) I would expect not nor would I expect any changes to episodes. It probably made its presense less known when it was scouting new information than when it returned. Some books actually go back to this and it is thought that it encounted early Borg tech which changed it into being self-aware. In that same series of books, its knowledge in Spock, Locutas in Picard, and Kirk's resurrection help to destroy the borg homeworld. (this last sentence can be confusing, the Vejur knowledge in Spock and the Borg knowledge in the other two. Kirk is revived after dying in the movie Generations by borg tech aquired thought the black market by a group of rouges to destroy the Federation and it continues into other stories from there on him)
 
Alternate Star Trek History? Ooh boy there is a lot, even discounting the ones that were covered on the show.

Star Trek IV. Kirk, McCoy and company get caught trying to rescue Chekhov from the hospital. Eventually the Bird of Prey is found. Earth History is changed a lot as a result from the Klingon Bird of Prey.

Star Trek VI. The conspiracy goes through, the Klingon-Federation cold war continues.

One I would have liked to see is if that Klingon didn't crash on Earth in 2151. Archer might not have been captain, T'Pol would not be a science officer.

The Original Series. The Organians did not intervene, and the Klingon-Federation War starts.

The Next Generation: Three ideas here.

One, Troi never crashed her shuttle in Season 1. Lieutenant Tasha Yar remains as security Chief. Imagine the results when Sela is introduced, "Hello Mother, It's been a while"

Two, Cmdr. Riker accepts a post on the Melbourne and dies at the Battle of Wolf 359

Three, In Season 7 Crusher and Picard start a romantic relationship after "Attached"

Deep Space 9: Sisko doesn't see the Prophet, and DS9 remains in orbit of Bajor. How would the conflicts of the show resolve without the Dominion, or the wormhole being discovered?

Voyager: Well one obvious one. Voyager doesn't get lost in the Delta Quad.

More subtle, Bleana and Seven are able to figure out Quantum Slipstream.

To make the series darker, the Think Tank offers Janeway a way to get home immediately, if Seven joins. Immediate results, Seven might volunteer for it, she has no family back on Earth, and her few friends on Voyager would reach home immediately if she sacrificed herself for her new collective.

More non-series PODs

Romulans win the conflict on Vulcan, Vulcans are unified but with a militaristic expansionist edge

Praxis explodes, but its the Romulans that bail out the Klingons, and they then ally together against the Federation.

Ferengi are the ones that make first contact with Earth in 2063.

No Treaty of Algernon. Federation has cloaking devices. Not only that but the Phased Cloak from "The Pegasus"

What should have happened in Nemesis? No Argo, No B-4, No Shinzon.
 
Yeah that always ticked me off the Fed could never use cloak except for the Defiant, and then "only in the gamma quadrant" though they did later on more or less ignore that, though still dumb what are the Romulans going to be able to tell when the Defiant is cloaked somehow? :rolleyes: That Admiral from the TNG episode had a point, the Federation did sacrifice an important strategic advantage.
 
Alternate Star Trek History? Ooh boy there is a lot, even discounting the ones that were covered on the show.

1.)Star Trek IV. Kirk, McCoy and company get caught trying to rescue Chekhov from the hospital. Eventually the Bird of Prey is found. Earth History is changed a lot as a result from the Klingon Bird of Prey.

2.)Star Trek VI. The conspiracy goes through, the Klingon-Federation cold war continues.

3.)One I would have liked to see is if that Klingon didn't crash on Earth in 2151. Archer might not have been captain, T'Pol would not be a science officer.

4.)The Original Series. The Organians did not intervene, and the Klingon-Federation War starts.

The Next Generation: Three ideas here.

5.)One, Troi never crashed her shuttle in Season 1. Lieutenant Tasha Yar remains as security Chief. Imagine the results when Sela is introduced, "Hello Mother, It's been a while"

6.)Two, Cmdr. Riker accepts a post on the Melbourne and dies at the Battle of Wolf 359

7.)Three, In Season 7 Crusher and Picard start a romantic relationship after "Attached"

8.)Deep Space 9: Sisko doesn't see the Prophet, and DS9 remains in orbit of Bajor. How would the conflicts of the show resolve without the Dominion, or the wormhole being discovered?

9.)Voyager: Well one obvious one. Voyager doesn't get lost in the Delta Quad.

10.)More subtle, Bleana and Seven are able to figure out Quantum Slipstream.

11.)To make the series darker, the Think Tank offers Janeway a way to get home immediately, if Seven joins. Immediate results, Seven might volunteer for it, she has no family back on Earth, and her few friends on Voyager would reach home immediately if she sacrificed herself for her new collective.

More non-series PODs

12.)Romulans win the conflict on Vulcan, Vulcans are unified but with a militaristic expansionist edge

13.)Praxis explodes, but its the Romulans that bail out the Klingons, and they then ally together against the Federation.

14.)Ferengi are the ones that make first contact with Earth in 2063.

15.)No Treaty of Algernon. Federation has cloaking devices. Not only that but the Phased Cloak from "The Pegasus"

16.)What should have happened in Nemesis? No Argo, No B-4, No Shinzon.

1.) That would be very interesting! I can imagine that the Cold War is going to go on a while longer, that the whales will be made a priority for conservation, and that we will be the ones to land on Vulcan and not the other way around.

2.) See the episode of TNG where Guinan guides Picard to make a better choice with regards to the Enterprise-B or was it C?

3.) Interesting idea, how would that change the Temporal Cold War? (A war that always bugged me for its obvious problems)

4.) You would have to change what the Organians were doing really to make that happen I believe.

5.) Obviously the creature would never be discovered, Worf would probably transfer to another ship. I do not believe we would meet Selar as it creates a change in the time-incursion, or whatever you want to call that paradox.

6.) That really creates some big changes that would be hard to calculate without a lot of looking back into the series.

7.) Little baby sooner, and less desire and heartbreak if at all (meaning his family may not die in this timeline) when his brother and his nephew die in the fire. Changes events during the movie Generations.

8.) That would really change a large section of history. It would also leave less devestation and appearance of a depression inside the Federation for when the Borg come the second time.

9.) No series....

10.) Different homecoming and less Borg improvements. Probably more worlds destroyed when the Borg regroup and hit the Federation.

11.) Ouch, but still not as dark as what I think of SGU.

12.) No Terran Empire/Federation, it would be a Vulcan Empire! Klingons and humans may form an alliance instead if we are not immediately annexed after first contact. Andorians may also be part of the Federatio/Klingon alliace or whatever happens here.

13.) Why would they? They do not see advantages like that often. They would rather subvert people or act behind the curtain to meet their ends.

14.) Ferengi are far away, they would be our first aliens, but I see no alliance or anything beyond that we know they exist. Vulcans are the best thing to happen to us. :p

15.) Big boost to what we can do, and probably faster improvements has the Federation as a free thinking people have more advantages than the Romulans IMHO.

16.) Oh Nemesis, you destroyed the Romulans. :rolleyes: No Typhon Pact if there is no Shinzon.
 
One, Troi never crashed her shuttle in Season 1. Lieutenant Tasha Yar remains as security Chief. Imagine the results when Sela is introduced, "Hello Mother, It's been a while"

I think that if Yar hadn't died then she wouldn't have gone back with the Enterprise C. The only reason she went back is because Guinan hinted at (read: basically told her) the fact that she was dead in the normal TL. This convinced her that there was nothing to be gained by staying, so she went back. If Yar never died, then Guinan doesn't tell her this and she doesn't go back. So no Sela.

One interesting POD I've always thought about is one that is actually suggested by Sisko in the DS9 episode "In the Pale Moonlight." He says, "Maybe I should have put a stop to it right there. Maybe I should have said, 'Thank you very much for your input, Mister Garak, I will take your suggestion under advisement,' and then gone back to my office and forgotten the whole thing. But I didn't. Because in my heart, I knew what he was saying made sense." He is speaking of course about falsifying evidence to convince the Romulans to enter the Dominion War. The reason Sisko did it was because he thought that if he didn't the Federation would be destroyed. The Dominion had the Federation and the Klingons on the defensive and were finally beginning to break through Federation lines. If Sisko hadn't acted, do you think the Federation actually would have fallen? Part of me thinks that the Romulans would have joined once they saw the Federation starting to collapse, because if the Federation falls then they will be surrounded by the Dominion. Not a nice situation to be in, even if the Romulans are naive enough to think the Dominion benign. However, if the Romulans did intervene later, might it have been too late?
 
I think that if Yar hadn't died then she wouldn't have gone back with the Enterprise C. The only reason she went back is because Guinan hinted at (read: basically told her) the fact that she was dead in the normal TL. This convinced her that there was nothing to be gained by staying, so she went back. If Yar never died, then Guinan doesn't tell her this and she doesn't go back. So no Sela.

One interesting POD I've always thought about is one that is actually suggested by Sisko in the DS9 episode "In the Pale Moonlight." He says, "Maybe I should have put a stop to it right there. Maybe I should have said, 'Thank you very much for your input, Mister Garak, I will take your suggestion under advisement,' and then gone back to my office and forgotten the whole thing. But I didn't. Because in my heart, I knew what he was saying made sense." He is speaking of course about falsifying evidence to convince the Romulans to enter the Dominion War. The reason Sisko did it was because he thought that if he didn't the Federation would be destroyed. The Dominion had the Federation and the Klingons on the defensive and were finally beginning to break through Federation lines. If Sisko hadn't acted, do you think the Federation actually would have fallen? Part of me thinks that the Romulans would have joined once they saw the Federation starting to collapse, because if the Federation falls then they will be surrounded by the Dominion. Not a nice situation to be in, even if the Romulans are naive enough to think the Dominion benign. However, if the Romulans did intervene later, might it have been too late?

You are also forgetting Castillo. She seemed to have genuine feelings and if she felt it would save the federation from war, she would do her duty and hop on the Enterprise-C

3.) Interesting idea, how would that change the Temporal Cold War? (A war that always bugged me for its obvious problems)

Considering Braga and Berman never bothered coming up with a storyline for it besides what was needed in an episode I think we can ignore it. Literally they were making it up as they went there.

>>>>>

The Federation perfect stabilizing the Omega Particle. Now what happens when the borg show up and see that....

The Excelsior did achieve Transwarp drive in 2278.

Instead of Praxis it was Remus. Would the Romulans pursue peace with the Federation?

Although let's develop the No Treaty of Algernon idea a little more. How would the Federation benefit from a cloaking device? Roddenberry's rationale was, "Our people are explorers, they don't need to skulk around in the dark."
 
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Has anybody come up with when (much less what) the POD was between our universe and the ST one? (IMO the Mirror Universe has existed from the beginning).

Spock's casual listing of casualties in the First, Second, and Third World War makes it seem that the POD is no later than 1914. Also, in the Gary Seven episode, there are references to orbital weapons platforms in the 1960's.

Another question: Where might I find the definitive list of "How Star Trek The Reboot" changed the future episodes? For Ex: The Botany Bay has probably been tracked down and moved to a stable and harmless planet.
 
Depending on your interpretation of 'canon', some of what you have suggested might occur, does occur. For example, the Klingon Empire and the Federation have anything from several minor border skirmishes to all out galactic wars after the Organians disappear (and they do disappear, as if they were still about, the events of the TMP Era movies would be somewhat irrelevant; Why worry about genesis or Babel or Praxis exploding if the Organians would just wag their finger and say "na ah" the moment the Klingon Empire so much as pointed a disruptor in the direction of the Neutral Zone)

But, as we know, what happens 'off camera' as it were is open to MASSSIVE fan interpretation. I just go with what makes sense to me :)

Slightly off-topic, but Yesterdays Enterprise for me is a great forshadowing of what occurs in Voyager, DS9 and the TNG films. Notice the darker tone, the more military uniforms, the whole atmosphere on the alternate Ent-D. Almost exactly the same changes occur in the regular timeline; more military uniforms in darker colours, less "lets talk about this" and more "eat phaser and die" responses to threats. I liked how they didn't instantly go to the "evil goatey" Mirror Universe. The idea of subtle changes that even Guinan could only have odd feelings about (rather than, "Woa, Picard you have hair" and the Enterprise D sprouting an extra nacelle a la AGT) was very well done IMHO.

Personally it was one of the best TNG episodes i've seen. Surprised I haven't managed to catch it on TV before.
 
Has anybody come up with when (much less what) the POD was between our universe and the ST one? (IMO the Mirror Universe has existed from the beginning).

Spock's casual listing of casualties in the First, Second, and Third World War makes it seem that the POD is no later than 1914. Also, in the Gary Seven episode, there are references to orbital weapons platforms in the 1960's.

Another question: Where might I find the definitive list of "How Star Trek The Reboot" changed the future episodes? For Ex: The Botany Bay has probably been tracked down and moved to a stable and harmless planet.

Well, when the Enterprise crew went back in time in the Original Series, the 1960s were exactly the same as the OTL 1960s. They even (cooincidentally) got the day of the week of the moon landing launch correct. However, the Eugenic Wars start up in the 1990s. So somewhere between the 1969 and 1990 would be my guess. Perhaps the huge breakthrough in genetic engineering is itself the POD? Maybe someone was born in this TL who was to Biology what Einstien was to Physics, who maybe wasn't born in OTL. Also, there is some conflict within the franchise over whether or not the Soviet Union collapsed in this TL. In the early seasons of TNG, there is a ship mentioned as having been built on Earth in the Soviet Union, and St. Petersburg was referred to as Leningrad. But in Voyager, it is said that the USSR fell in 1991 like OTL.
 
1.)Has anybody come up with when (much less what) the POD was between our universe and the ST one? (IMO the Mirror Universe has existed from the beginning).

2.) Spock's casual listing of casualties in the First, Second, and Third World War makes it seem that the POD is no later than 1914. Also, in the Gary Seven episode, there are references to orbital weapons platforms in the 1960's.

3.)Another question: Where might I find the definitive list of "How Star Trek The Reboot" changed the future episodes? For Ex: The Botany Bay has probably been tracked down and moved to a stable and harmless planet.

1.) I believe Doragon's update today answers that question very admirably.

2.) I have not seen that whole episode, so I will not comment on the accuracy of that.

3.) I do not believe that has as yet been writen. It all depends on the new movie, what the franchise does to the books that take place here, and how much the individual or the franchise feel that Spock will reveal about himself and the previous timeline.
 
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