In OTL Charles the Bold left Mary of Burgundy as his heir. This allowed her to be married off and the lands of Burgundy to be divided between France and the Austrian Hapsburgs. So what if Charles had had a son, and had left his Kingdom to said son.
Charles the Bold has a son
- Thread starter Thucydides
- Start date
Well, the "division" of the lands was rather losses to France, and it was due to military actions and ensuing negotiations - I don't think a stable dynastic succession would change anything about that.
And you know that Burgundy just fail to become a "kingdom" - that indeed might change.
However, I'd say a marriage between Mary and Maximilian is still plausible.
But who will the Burundian crown prince have? Perhaps we may have a double wedding, as the Habsburg did with Castilia-Aragon and Hungary a bit later.
So Charles's son, let's call him Philipp III of Burgundy, might marry Maximilian's sister, Kunigunde ...
And you know that Burgundy just fail to become a "kingdom" - that indeed might change.
However, I'd say a marriage between Mary and Maximilian is still plausible.
But who will the Burundian crown prince have? Perhaps we may have a double wedding, as the Habsburg did with Castilia-Aragon and Hungary a bit later.
So Charles's son, let's call him Philipp III of Burgundy, might marry Maximilian's sister, Kunigunde ...
Philip IV, actually. Charles the Bold's father Philip the Good was Philip III.
Exactly. One thing that is commonly overlooked about the Burgundians is that they were a cadet branch of the Valois, but that's a consequence of acting largely independent of the crown I'd assume.
Charles the Bold was married three times. His first wife was his cousin Catherine of France, daughter of Charles VII, in 1440. Problem is that Catherine was 12 while Charles the Bold was 7. Plus, Catherine died at 18, so there probably won't be any child from this marriage.
His second wife was Isabella of Bourbon, whom he married in 1454 : she was 17, he was 21. It was a happy marriage, but it produced only Mary (born in 1457) and Isabella died in 1465.
Charles' last wife was Margaret of York, whom he married in 1468. She was 22 while he was 35. The marriage secured an alliance between Burgundy and England, and it seems to have been a good match. But Charles was killed in 1477.
Probable name for the son of Charles the Bold is likely to be Philip, John or Charles given the names of the Dukes of Burgundy. Let's call him Philip as I think it the likiest.
If Philip is born out of Charles' second marriage (with Isabella of Bourbon), he would be born between 1458 and 1465, assuming we keep Mary of Burgundy around. That would make him aged between 12 and 19 when his father dies.
If Philip is born out of Charles the Bold's third marriage (with Margaret of York), that would be between 1469 and 1477, making him at best 8 at the death of his father.
The main consequences of this is that the Burgundian Estates won't be partitionned, unless young Philip dies childless. Problem is that, unless he is born before 1463, he will be a minor and too young to assume power : that means Regency. However, if Charles' wedding to Margaret of York still happened, she's gonna play a similar role to what she did OTL.
Philip is likely to inherit his father's ambition of turning the Burgundian Estates into a Kingdom. Thus, we can assume who is mortal ennemy will be : the King of France. Charles the Bold's downfall was linked to the fact he and Louis XI hated each other, and the Spider King did everything he could to get rid of Charles and his project.
Young Philip would probably face Louis XI until 1483, and that means trouble for the young Duke. After the Spider King's death, Philip would probably have probably more freedom of action and he could succeed in achieving what his father didn't, unless he is fiercely opposed by the succeeding French Kings.
Another scenario, that I find fun but rather unlikely, would be to have Louis XI taking Charles' son "under his wing". Thus, the Spider King could keep an eye on Burgundy without worrying too much. However, given the relationship between Charles the Bold and Louis XI, I find it extremly unlikely unless young Philip falls in French hands.
Philip IV of Burgundy (as it would be his regnal name) is going to be one of the most important characters in Europe in the following years : he would be at the head of one of the richest and most powerful Duchies (and Kingdom if he suceeds where Charles failed) of Europe, not to mention he would probably play a key role in the political dealings between France, England, and the HRE.
If we assume the other Valois branch died as planned (meaning 1589), then Philip's heirs are going to inherit the French crown as they are better placed compared to the Bourbons. It would be interesting to see how the Valois-Burgundy would play its part in the Religious Wars.
His second wife was Isabella of Bourbon, whom he married in 1454 : she was 17, he was 21. It was a happy marriage, but it produced only Mary (born in 1457) and Isabella died in 1465.
Charles' last wife was Margaret of York, whom he married in 1468. She was 22 while he was 35. The marriage secured an alliance between Burgundy and England, and it seems to have been a good match. But Charles was killed in 1477.
Probable name for the son of Charles the Bold is likely to be Philip, John or Charles given the names of the Dukes of Burgundy. Let's call him Philip as I think it the likiest.
If Philip is born out of Charles' second marriage (with Isabella of Bourbon), he would be born between 1458 and 1465, assuming we keep Mary of Burgundy around. That would make him aged between 12 and 19 when his father dies.
If Philip is born out of Charles the Bold's third marriage (with Margaret of York), that would be between 1469 and 1477, making him at best 8 at the death of his father.
The main consequences of this is that the Burgundian Estates won't be partitionned, unless young Philip dies childless. Problem is that, unless he is born before 1463, he will be a minor and too young to assume power : that means Regency. However, if Charles' wedding to Margaret of York still happened, she's gonna play a similar role to what she did OTL.
Philip is likely to inherit his father's ambition of turning the Burgundian Estates into a Kingdom. Thus, we can assume who is mortal ennemy will be : the King of France. Charles the Bold's downfall was linked to the fact he and Louis XI hated each other, and the Spider King did everything he could to get rid of Charles and his project.
Young Philip would probably face Louis XI until 1483, and that means trouble for the young Duke. After the Spider King's death, Philip would probably have probably more freedom of action and he could succeed in achieving what his father didn't, unless he is fiercely opposed by the succeeding French Kings.
Another scenario, that I find fun but rather unlikely, would be to have Louis XI taking Charles' son "under his wing". Thus, the Spider King could keep an eye on Burgundy without worrying too much. However, given the relationship between Charles the Bold and Louis XI, I find it extremly unlikely unless young Philip falls in French hands.
Philip IV of Burgundy (as it would be his regnal name) is going to be one of the most important characters in Europe in the following years : he would be at the head of one of the richest and most powerful Duchies (and Kingdom if he suceeds where Charles failed) of Europe, not to mention he would probably play a key role in the political dealings between France, England, and the HRE.
If we assume the other Valois branch died as planned (meaning 1589), then Philip's heirs are going to inherit the French crown as they are better placed compared to the Bourbons. It would be interesting to see how the Valois-Burgundy would play its part in the Religious Wars.
I agree with your analysis, but I would like to add a bit regarding the Burgundian royal ambitions. The relationship with the empire, the emperor and the electors will be crucial too. King Louis XI didn't like the idea, but also some of the more powerful imperial nobles had their worries.
Holding both Imperial fiefs and French fiefs was the biggest challenge to the House of Valois-Burgundy, after all.
If they survive until the Reformation period I'm thinking that there's a roughly equal chance that they'll embrace it, given that their power base is in the Low Countries after all, or continuing the Catholic faith, if their hold on their French estates is to be solidified.