Challenge: Sikh terrorism high-profile in West

[Strategos' Risk]

For my Fringeworld, I was going to add the tidbit that in Canada and the U.K., terrorism by Sikh (and maybe other Indian) groups are a major concern, akin to the panic over Islamic terrorism in the U.S.

How could such a scenario occur in OTL? Commonwealth intervention in India in the '80s and really fouls things up?

[AHIMPERIALIST]

One possibility is that during the 1990’s there was a rather large number of violent incidents involving Sikhs and Sikh temples in Vancouver. Now let’s assume the BC Government overreacts, and rather than simply dealing with the incidents at a local law enforcement level, they instead kick the matter over to the RCMP and CSIS....that might be a good starting point?

[RogueBeaver]

It was a major concern, to the point where what might be called the CT4: Rajiv Gandhi, Brian Mulroney, Thatcher and Reagan had to coordinate all their intelligence services fairly closely and Gandhi openly criticized his allies for lax security, particularly Thatcher. Today in Canada it still simmers, but mostly with extorting members of the local community than actual terrorism, at least since security was totally overhauled following AIC182 in 1985. The problem is that Sikh extremism is mostly confined to those four countries, not worldwide, with highly efficient security services. Maybe what's left of Bhindranwhale's terrorist gang tries to fan out to those four countries and become a quasi-Al Qaeda?

[black angel]

Sikh Terrorism in India is worse, with Indira Gandhi pulling a second state of Emergency in the mid-80s after she lives through the 1984 assassination, she and latter her son become dictators, to fight Maoist rebels and Sikh terrorists the Gandhis turn to the West, angry Sikhs in the UK and Canada protest, riot and start bombing government targets before blowing up a Van-bomb in NYC in front of a major bank that held millions of Gandhi's personal funds killing over 200 people in 1999.

[RogueBeaver]

You wouldn't need the Emergency to deal with that, it could be dealt with under existing law. We're talking things the FBI does on an everyday basis here, all you need is tougher anti-terrorism laws. Which son are we talking about? Sanjay's (who helped create Bindranwhale for domestic political reasons, irony of ironies considering what happened to his mother) survival requires a 1980 POD and Rajiv was totally committed to the opposite of everything his mother stood for- including trusting democratic institutions to survive severe political turbulence. In that sense he was much more his grandfather's grandson than his mother's son or brother's brother. India was already Western-aligned (though usually triangulating between the US, Russia and China, the basic orientation is still pro-Western and pro-American) by the late 1980s, a process that lasted throughout the Reagan presidency, heated up in Reagan's second term and only fully blossomed under Dubya.

The rest sounds plausible though.

[black angel]

Originally Posted by RogueBeaver

You wouldn't need the Emergency to deal with that, it could be dealt with under existing law. We're talking things the FBI does on an everyday basis here, all you need is tougher anti-terrorism laws. Which son are we talking about? Sanjay's (who helped create Bindranwhale for domestic political reasons, irony of ironies considering what happened to his mother) survival requires a 1980 POD and Rajiv was totally committed to the opposite of everything his mother stood for- including trusting democratic institutions to survive severe political turbulence. In that sense he was much more his grandfather's grandson than his mother's son or brother's brother. India was already Western-aligned by the late 1980s, a process that lasted throughout the Reagan presidency, heated up in Reagan's second term and only fully blossomed under Dubya.

The rest sounds plausible though.

yes I meant Sanjay, he gets off that plane just fine thats the POD that sets the TL rolling, as for the Emergency, you're right its not needed but I like dystopia, and I think if Indira had lived through the shooting or if Sanjay had been alive to take over you'd see an Emergency.

[Midas]

Disorganized thoughts: A start would be with Operation Blue Star gone much worse.

Have Shabeg Singh far more aggressive in his pursuit of Bhindranwale at the Golden Temple. The Indian Army brought artillery and there were hundreds of innocent Sikh civilians inside. Major General Brar, who was in charge of the siege, resisted several requests by his Commandos to fire on the temple. Have him forget to drink his morning coffee, be more jittery or have the casualties much more higher and you have a crisis worse than OTL. Artillery fire on the Akal Takht was devastating and hundreds of Sikh artifacts were destroyed. Fire on the Golden Temple- especially because it was during a holy month, could've resulted in many more deaths and destruction to the holiest site in Sikhism. If the Indian Army is far less restrained in their handling of the militants and end up killing more than they did IOTL, maintain the media blackout or even if Gandhi blames the Sikhs outright... wow.

It's hard to envision a worse outcome than real life, but that would be it. If she's assassinated like iotl you still get the race riots, but it might even worse than now given all the damage between opposing sides. If Gandhi survives the assassination attempt and maintains her power with Hindu-Sikh riots... -shudder- now that would produce some Sikh terrorism. It would most likely be in India, but in places with large Sikh populations like Vancouver (my hometown!) it's not unfathomable to think something could happen. If you get reactionary legislation against kirpans and turbans across Europe and/or in Canada or something it would just exacerbate everything too.

[tallwingedgoat]

Hmmm, Muslim cab driver beaten up in NYC after being mistaken for a Sikh.