The Great Northern War of 1700

[Beck Reilly]

The Kingdom of Sweden - Part One

1700: The Battle of Narva, fought near the Swedish city of Narva on the Gulf of Finland ends when Swedish forces, led by King Karl XII and covered by a blinding blizzard, break through the Russian lines and send the larger Russian Army into panic. On November 21, the victorious Swedish Army, holding nearly 12,000 prisoners, realize that they have captured the Tsar of Russia, Peter, who lay sick and bed and was unable to leave before the battle. In the mad escape from the battle, he is left behind.

1701: The Treaty of Ingria ends the Great Northern War of 1700. The Swedes are basically able to dictate the terms, as they hold the leader of Russia in their possession. By the treaty, terms are:

- the provinces of Estonia, Livonia (all land around the Gulf of Riga), Karelia, and Ingria, occupied by the Swedes before the war, are to be permanently ceded to the Kingdom of Sweden.

- Russia is to cede the Principality and Land of Novgorod (all land north of the Duagava River) and the Principality of Tver (all land north of the Volga River to the Rybinskoye).

1705 – 1715: Sweden consolidates its new holdings. The city of Karlsborg is founded on the banks of Neva River at the head of the Gulf of Finland. Many city names throughout the newly captured territory are changed. Some names stick, others don’t. The Swedish Army grows substantially larger as many new recruits join from around the Kingdom. The Army is revamped, including some of the most modern tactics and weapons in Europe.

[G.Bone]

continue......

[Stalin]

Bumped back up. If Ian could move this to chat, that would be appreciated.

I know, this is an awful case of thread necromancy, but this thread caught my attention. Actually a lot of Beck's old threads have, I might bring some of those back too.

[AndrewDonelson]

Within a decade or two Russia comes back and wins, history proceeds as OTL.

Leaders and Kings were captured all the time IATL and then went home, often repudiated the treaty or at least fought against it if it had already been implemented.
Karl is still a maniac and will eventually stick out his neck too far by trying to conquer everyone.
Russia still has near inexhaustable manpower.
Karl still has no money and can't rearm.
Sweden is still boxing out of its weightclass as a great power because it doesn't have enough people and is opposed by everyone.

How Karl comes to Grief may be interesting

[corourke]

In a biography of Peter the Great I read, it said that there was a lot of popular sentiment in Europe to the effect of "let the Swedes conquer all the way to the Amur".

Remember that at this time Russia had yet to be reformed to a significant degree, it is still barely above the Golden Horde in the rest of Europe's eyes.

[Redbeard]

Without Peter Russia is most likely to fall back into pre-Peter times and stay there for a century or two - i.e. longbearded men (and women?) mainly drinking vodka and killing each other.

That of course leaves Sweden in a much better position, but she still has many enemies. Denmark-Norway will still look for an opportunity to get revenge for the loss of Scania in 17th century and will sooner or later find European allies big enough to make it worth a try.

The early 18th Swedish armies weren't that different from other European armies at that time, not like those of Gustav Adolph anyway. The battles against Denmark-Norway were quite even and ended when Karl was killed in front of a fortress in Norway.

If very lucky the Swedes might consolidate their empire in the east before a sufficiently strong coalition is found against her, but most likely she will be worn out by continious warfare.

Brandenburg is less likely to develop into the Kingdom of Prussia we know, also because Poland will be a natural ally in the anti-Swedish coalitions. The result could be a Sweden less focussed on NW Europe and more on the eastern Baltic.

With English or Dutch allies it is unlikely that Denmark-Norway will be allowed to regain total control of the Baltic entrances (which will also keep Sweden from the same control), but an alliance based on Poland and France might push Sweden out of the western Baltic and leave Denmark-Norway and Poland as effective instruments of France to keep the Germans, incl. the HRE, in check. Poland could end up very strong, freed of her main constraints Prussia and Russia. Denmark-Norway will still have UK and Netherlands as competitors on the seas, but might have a bigger role in N. Germany. A united Germany is unlikely.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

[mattep74]

Originally Posted by Beck Reilly

- the provinces of Estonia, Livonia (all land around the Gulf of Riga), Karelia, and Ingria, occupied by the Swedes before the war, are to be permanently ceded to the Kingdom of Sweden.

- Russia is to cede the Principality and Land of Novgorod (all land north of the Duagava River) and the Principality of Tver (all land north of the Volga River to the Rybinskoye).

1705 – 1715: Sweden consolidates its new holdings. The city of Karlsborg is founded on the banks of Neva River at the head of the Gulf of Finland. Many city names throughout the newly captured territory are changed. Some names stick, others don’t. The Swedish Army grows substantially larger as many new recruits join from around the Kingdom. The Army is revamped, including some of the most modern tactics and weapons in Europe.

First: The provinces of Estonia etc were already swedish since the 1650ths and belonged to Poland and not Russia. Novgorod was never a swedish goal to have exept as a buffer against Russia

Why change the army tactics?

[mattep74]

Originally Posted by AndrewDonelson

Within a decade or two Russia comes back and wins, history proceeds as OTL.

Leaders and Kings were captured all the time IATL and then went home, often repudiated the treaty or at least fought against it if it had already been implemented.
Karl is still a maniac and will eventually stick out his neck too far by trying to conquer everyone.
Russia still has near inexhaustable manpower.
Karl still has no money and can't rearm.
Sweden is still boxing out of its weightclass as a great power because it doesn't have enough people and is opposed by everyone.

How Karl comes to Grief may be interesting

Karl XII didnt want to conquer anyone. Sweden was attacked in the great nordic war and not the other way around

[Wendell]

I like he premis, but let's see a map.