A Nelson dies, Napoleon triumphs Egypt and the Middle East idea

Grey Wolf · Jul 23, 2005

I'm thinking of a POD where Nelson is killed in one of his close shaves before the Mediterranean chase of Napoleon. Throw in a couple of blunders by his more likely successors, and the accession to command of someone who seems good but makes a devastating blunder at Aboukir Bay and sees the British fleet annihilated. Napoleon in command of the Eastern Mediterranean sea, Egypt and the Levant soon enough.

Extend this to what he does next ? Presumably the French fleet will be boosted by actually winning something, and the next Royal Navy fleet which comes to the area to challenge will be met by an enemy who have been blooded and have known success.

What is Napoleon's aim in Egypt, and the Levant ? Will he aim for India, for Constantinople, for Baghdad ?

I aim for a lasting dominion in this theatre

Grey Wolf

Redbeard · Jul 23, 2005

Grey Wolf said:
I'm thinking of a POD where Nelson is killed in one of his close shaves before the Mediterranean chase of Napoleon. Throw in a couple of blunders by his more likely successors, and the accession to command of someone who seems good but makes a devastating blunder at Aboukir Bay and sees the British fleet annihilated. Napoleon in command of the Eastern Mediterranean sea, Egypt and the Levant soon enough.

Extend this to what he does next ? Presumably the French fleet will be boosted by actually winning something, and the next Royal Navy fleet which comes to the area to challenge will be met by an enemy who have been blooded and have known success.

What is Napoleon's aim in Egypt, and the Levant ? Will he aim for India, for Constantinople, for Baghdad ?

I aim for a lasting dominion in this theatre

Grey Wolf

By the time of Egypt Napoleon still was only a succesful general among other successful generals, and I guess he with a greater success in the Middle East will be even more motivated to go back to France and take over.

That will not necessarily mean the French leaving their new overseas conquests, but with the situation in Europe basically unsolved there will be a severe limit on how many resources the French can pour into overseas campaigns, where distance and the climate anyway will be harsh opponents.

But perhaps a liberation of Jerusalem started as a PR-stunt ends up being a Crusade unifying many of the European peoples, and is used as the pretext for crowning Napoleon as Emperor of a new Roman Empire (we still need Austerlitz and the old HRE to vanish).

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

Grey Wolf · Jul 23, 2005

Interestinfg ideas - thank you for the reply

I intended to reformat the hard drive, reinstall, post then go on holiday but my bloody floppy drive isn't working so I'll have to go off now until Auguist knowing that I come back to a malfunctioning piece of junk. The holiday is the reason why there may well be no further replies for a time - unless I can repair my parents' computer, or convince my sister to go bac on the internet

Did Napoleon use any native levies at all in his Egypt/Acre campaigns historically ?

Grey Wolf

JLCook · Jul 23, 2005

Nelson Killed before Aboukir Bay/Nile

And it would just postpone the Royal Navy's reprise engagement a couple of months. The superiority overall, of the RN was such that additional ships would have been sent, and there were other, perfectly able commanders besides Nelson. I think that the return engagement would yield the same results as OTL. Also, a Naval triumph for the French Fleet at Aboukir Bay would enhance the reputation of the French Admiral. , but I doubt it would do all that much to further Napoleon's career.

Faeelin · Jul 23, 2005

JLCook said:
Also, a Naval triumph for the French Fleet at Aboukir Bay would enhance the reputation of the French Admiral. , but I doubt it would do all that much to further Napoleon's career.

True, but it would give Napoleon the supplies and reinforcements he needed.

Hmm. The French held out in Egypt for a long, long time; almost up until when Amiens was signed. I could easily see them holding onto it during the peace treaty. And although Mysore is finished, there are still the Marathas in India to receive French help.

Question is, has anything been fundamentally changed?

blysas · Jul 23, 2005

Do a campaign or timeline where the event of the french taking over the middle east competly.

Hierophant · Jul 23, 2005

Didnt Napoleon promise a homeland for the Jews in Palestine?

Diamond · Jul 23, 2005

If the French are triumphant in the eastern Med, and hold Egypt, would it make Russia's Czar Paul more amenable to the first India Plan? In OTL, the plan was dropped after Paul was killed, but with a butterfly or two since Nelson's death and the French victory in the Med, maybe the Russians would sign off on the Plan and carve up India with France.

Faeelin · Jul 23, 2005

Justin Green said:
Didnt Napoleon promise a homeland for the Jews in Palestine?

He promised lots of things. That's what made him a good leader.

Faeelin · Jul 23, 2005

Diamond said:
If the French are triumphant in the eastern Med, and hold Egypt, would it make Russia's Czar Paul more amenable to the first India Plan? In OTL, the plan was dropped after Paul was killed, but with a butterfly or two since Nelson's death and the French victory in the Med, maybe the Russians would sign off on the Plan and carve up India with France.

Mmm.... you've got a supply line thousands of miles long, with the British able to interdict em by sea anywhere along them.

Or, I suppose the Russians could try going through Afghanistan. What could go wrong?

Diamond · Jul 23, 2005

Faeelin said:
Mmm.... you've got a supply line thousands of miles long, with the British able to interdict em by sea anywhere along them.

Or, I suppose the Russians could try going through Afghanistan. What could go wrong?

Hey, I never said it would work.

I do wonder if Paul (had he lived) or whoever became czar would draw closer to France though...

Zach · Jul 23, 2005

Interesting thread, I'm working on a timeline like this as well.

I think a situation like this would put the ottomans in a tough spot, between the French and Russians, both of whom cast hungry eyes over the Ottomans.

Grey Wolf · Aug 2, 2005

Thank you for the replies in my absence

Obviously, in making a long-term timeline out of a POD I didn't want to end up with NO REAL CHANGE, lol, so the world of 2000 AD that I have developed from this IS substantially different

I will post the prologue and the only part of the first chapter that is written up today.

I'm off again tomorrow, but will I think take my laptop with me.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf · Aug 2, 2005

The Story set in 2000 AD

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=267920

at this board's writers' section

Or at AHF in my sig

Grey Wolf

zoomar · Aug 2, 2005

Ah yes, all great timelines end up with stately passenger airships and civilized aristocracy. What the hell happened to ours?!?

zoomar · Aug 2, 2005

zoomar said:
Ah yes, all great timelines end up with stately passenger airships and civilized aristocracy. What the hell happened to ours?!?

Oh, yeah, I remember. America. Blast.

Paul Spring · Aug 2, 2005

zoomar said:
Ah yes, all great timelines end up with stately passenger airships and civilized aristocracy. What the hell happened to ours?!?

Bah - Stately passenger airships and civilized aristocracies have two things in common - they are pretty to look at, but functionally not very effective. Give me freewheeling capitalist democracies filled with gasoline-burning automobiles any day!