Chinese Nationalist Victory in the Civil War

[GundamZero]

Guys, if the Nationalist won/absorbed Communist without a civil war. Here is what I think would have happened after WWII.

Territory Changes:

Mongolia would be restored to Chang's rule.

French-IndoChina given to the Chinese and a Chinese-Vietnamese war. (In fact, the Chinese would replace the French in their attempt to hold Vietnam)

Okinawa given to the Chinese by FDR/Truman.

Possible obtaining Burma, Singapore, Malayasia following British decolonization.

Chang gave away Mongolia to appeal Stalin and turn down offers for French-IndoChina and Okinawa b/c he needed men to fight the communists.

What do you guys think?

[Super_Cool]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Mongolia would be restored to Chang's rule.

Not if Stalin has anything to say about it.

Originally Posted by GundamZero

French-IndoChina given to the Chinese and a Chinese-Vietnamese war. (In fact, the Chinese would replace the French in their attempt to hold Vietnam)

Why would they do that? China is going to have several internal problems for it to try to take over land it has no claims on. China will invade Tibet and Xinjiang just like OTL, and those alone will give it headaches.

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Okinawa given to the Chinese by FDR/Truman.

No, the U.S. wanted occupation of Japan to be a solo operation. Besides, occupation happened before the Chinese Civil War ended.

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Possible obtaining Burma, Singapore, Malayasia following British decolonization.

wut

Originally Posted by GundamZero

What do you guys think?

If Chiang wins, China will be neutral in the Cold War and is going to be a tin pot dictatorship for a while, which considering the democidal China we got OTL, will actually be a step up. Its territory would be the same as today, which the exception being that Taiwan obviously wouldn't have a separate governemnt.

[Domoviye]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

French-IndoChina given to the Chinese and a Chinese-Vietnamese war. (In fact, the Chinese would replace the French in their attempt to hold Vietnam)


Possible obtaining Burma, Singapore, Malayasia following British decolonization.
?

I've been reading up on these areas recently and one of the big worries by the leaders and citizens of these countries was domination by the Chinese.
Malayasia actually got supported by several minorities in its border states who normally would have demanded independence because of the Chinese menace. And bands of Chinese soldiers in all these areas who came over the border to fight Japanese at the close of WW2 and to 'restore' order, got called bandits and the local and national governments did everything they could to throw them out short of war.
If China was given these territories it would have a massive rebellion in its hands, which would easily be at least the same size as the Communists of OTL. These regions have WW2 weapons in vast amounts, many trained soldiers, about 60% trained as guerrilla fighters, and the rest as front line troops.
Independent India would also ship weapons to the rebels as it feared China and would see this as threatening its newly won sovereignty.
It would likely make the revolutions, civil wars, and unrest of OTL look like a day in the park.

[La Rouge Beret]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Guys, if the Nationalist won/absorbed Communist without a civil war. Here is what I think would have happened after WWII.

Territory Changes:

Mongolia would be restored to Chang's rule.

French-IndoChina given to the Chinese and a Chinese-Vietnamese war. (In fact, the Chinese would replace the French in their attempt to hold Vietnam)

Okinawa given to the Chinese by FDR/Truman.

Possible obtaining Burma, Singapore, Malayasia following British decolonization.

Chang gave away Mongolia to appeal Stalin and turn down offers for French-IndoChina and Okinawa b/c he needed men to fight the communists.

What do you guys think?

Okay I will respond to each point that you raised:

1) Mongolia: unlikely to occur without a significant POD from Stalin's personality

2) In OTL and in ITTL the Vietnamese and the Chinese have had thousands of years of warfare between the two countries. Although Vietnamese culture has been heavily influenced by Chinese religious and philisophical ideals. The notion that they would acquiese happily under Chinese rule is mistaken. The best case scenario is the rise of the VNQD (Vietnamese version of the Nationalist Party) which would maintain generally positive ties, but outright annexation no.

3) Okinawa - interesting but no. If the US wanted to further punish Japan, it would grant independence to Okinawa. That would be an interesting timeline to write about.

4) Burma - no similar reasons to Vietnam. Malaysia no, the ethnic Malays wanted their own rule, there is no way to reconcile this with Chinese hegemonic ambitions. Singapore is similar, again perhaps naval port calls, but nothing more significant.

5) I would be interested in seeing your sources for the statements above.

[Typo]

French-IndoChina given to the Chinese and a Chinese-Vietnamese war. (In fact, the Chinese would replace the French in their attempt to hold Vietnam)

ummmmmm wtf

[Color-Copycat]

In regards to Mongolia, I'd like to hear a bit of clarification, Mr. OP. Are you referring to Inner or Outer Mongolia? That makes a pretty big difference, since all the mineral deposits are in Inner.

[loughery111]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

What do you guys think?

No. Just no.

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Mongolia would be restored to Chang's rule.

Outer Mongolia will not be restored to Chinese rule even if the KMT won the civil war. Chiang will not alienate Stalin further.

French-IndoChina given to the Chinese and a Chinese-Vietnamese war. (In fact, the Chinese would replace the French in their attempt to hold Vietnam)

ASB, nuff said

Okinawa given to the Chinese by FDR/Truman.

Chiang never had a goal to take any Japanese integral territory. Again, ASB

Possible obtaining Burma, Singapore, Malaysia following British decolonization.

Decolonization is inevitable but China will conquer them. China will just pressure Burma and Malaysia to gave the ethnic Chinese more voice in their respective government.

Chang gave away Mongolia to appeal Stalin and turn down offers for French-IndoChina and Okinawa b/c he needed men to fight the communists.

That's the realistic possible to happened.

[FDW]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

What do you guys think?

Ummm, how do I put this lightly? ASB.

[GundamZero]

Originally Posted by Color-Copycat

In regards to Mongolia, I'd like to hear a bit of clarification, Mr. OP. Are you referring to Inner or Outer Mongolia? That makes a pretty big difference, since all the mineral deposits are in Inner.

I am going to ignore the senseless posts. From the post, I can tell how much the poser knows about history, geopolitics, relations at the time etc.

I am talking about Outer Mongolia. Your right, most of the resources, coal and rare earth is inner Mongolia.

[GundamZero]

Originally Posted by Joseph Solis in Australia

Outer Mongolia will not be restored to Chinese rule even if the KMT won the civil war. Chiang will not alienate Stalin further.



ASB, nuff said



Chiang never had a goal to take any Japanese integral territory. Again, ASB



Decolonization is inevitable but China will conquer them. China will just pressure Burma and Malaysia to gave the ethnic Chinese more voice in their respective government.



That's the realistic possible to happened.

Chang had FDR's backing to fight with Stalin over Mongolia. If Chang wasn't fighting the communists, he would have fought the Russians. Noticed how the Soviets didn't gain as much territory as was expected.

Its called something "Atomic Bomb". I feel like I am talking to regular people on the street instead of historians. They go into topics they have little or no knowledge of. I say to topics I have high prior understand on... Some of my critics should pratice the same.

[Typo]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Chang had FDR's backing to fight with Stalin over Mongolia. If Chang wasn't fighting the communists, he would have fought the Russians. Noticed how the Soviets didn't gain as much territory as was expected.

Its called something "Atomic Bomb". I feel like I am talking to regular people on the street instead of historians. They go into topics they have little or no knowledge of. I say to topics I have high prior understand on... Some of my critics should pratice the same.

Hey guys look at me I'm smarter than you also here's a red herring and a bunch of sentences which makes no sense

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Chang had FDR's backing to fight with Stalin over Mongolia. If Chang wasn't fighting the communists, he would have fought the Russians. Noticed how the Soviets didn't gain as much territory as was expected.

Its called something "Atomic Bomb". I feel like I am talking to regular people on the street instead of historians. They go into topics they have little or no knowledge of. I say to topics I have high prior understand on... Some of my critics should pratice the same.

Even if with FDR's backing, Chiang will not risk to have a war with the Soviets regarding Outer Mongolia. In OTL, Chiang lost in spite of US aid that he received.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

I am going to ignore the senseless posts.

I made a statement and asked for opinions. Most thought there were some flaws in your proposals and said so.

[Domoviye]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Chang had FDR's backing to fight with Stalin over Mongolia. If Chang wasn't fighting the communists, he would have fought the Russians. Noticed how the Soviets didn't gain as much territory as was expected.

Its called something "Atomic Bomb". I feel like I am talking to regular people on the street instead of historians. They go into topics they have little or no knowledge of. I say to topics I have high prior understand on... Some of my critics should pratice the same.

Whats your knowledge?
I have an BA in History and Political Science, and I'm currently researching the break up of the British Asian Empire with a focus on Malaysia's emergence into independence.
I can also use proper grammar.

[lichtbringer]

Originally Posted by Domoviye

Whats your knowledge?
I have an BA in History and Political Science, and I'm currently researching the break up of the British Asian Empire with a focus on Malaysia's emergence into independence.
I can also use proper grammar.

Look at that other posts of that guy. He is obviously a 12-year old troll. I already reported him (and so should you so that we can get rid of him).

[yourworstnightmare]

Chiang wins:

Territorial changes: Chinese invasion (reconquest) of Tibet and Sinkiang. So OTL territory + Taiwan.

Outer Mongolia would remain a Soviet puppet. USSR would never give that up, didn't give it to Mao, would be the same with Chiang.

Chinese expansion anywhere else is ASB.

Chiang would probably take a neutral stance in the Cold War, taking neither the US nor the Soviet side. Stalin would be quite happy about that.

[lichtbringer]

Originally Posted by yourworstnightmare

Outer Mongolia would remain a Soviet puppet. USSR would never give that up, didn't give it to Mao, would be the same with Chiang.

The Soviet Union wanted a buffer state between them and china. That is the reason why Mongolia "only" was a puppet of the SU and not a full blown member within the SU.
And of course the Chinese nationalist would have been pissed if the SU annex a area which some chinese are seeing as historically their (On the other hand the mongolian could also see china as historically theirs )

[Domoviye]

Originally Posted by lichtbringer

Look at that other posts of that guy. He is obviously a 12-year old troll. I already reported him (and so should you so that we can get rid of him).

I reported him to right after making that post.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by GundamZero

Chang had FDR's backing to fight with Stalin over Mongolia. If Chang wasn't fighting the communists, he would have fought the Russians. Noticed how the Soviets didn't gain as much territory as was expected.

Its called something "Atomic Bomb". I feel like I am talking to regular people on the street instead of historians. They go into topics they have little or no knowledge of. I say to topics I have high prior understand on... Some of my critics should pratice the same.

The Chinese Civil War ended in 1949, FDR died in 1945, and was still dead in 1949, he doesnt come back periodically to check up on China. Your claims he was willing to support Chiang against Stalin are very inconsistent with the historical FDR who was all too willing to concede Eastern Europe behind the Iron Curtain. I doubt he would be willing to go against Stalin for a sparsley populated landlocked country in Asia. Just to clarify by FDR you do mean Franklin Delano Roosevelt, right?

Where did you learn your history anyway? This sounds like the Twentieth Century by Fox News or something.