So I was wondering could it be possible for Germany to unify at the same time as France and England?
WI: Germany unified at the same time as France and England?
- Thread starter American Empire
- Start date
It depends on how you define unified, the German kingdom was the largest part of the Holy Roman Empire; but for it to become more like a kingdom Germany would require no special involvement of the German kings in Italy. A German kingdom without Italy, would give a different result for Germany and Italy; although a bad case for Italy would be a Italy divided in spheres between Germany and France.
I meant England, you know around the time when King Alfred became King.
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Yes, I think that will do. Thats probably the best PoD your going to get.
Eurofed
Banned
Just to make a necessary remark: if you indeed want an early German centralized/unified monarchy which largely resembles modern Grossdeutchsland (although Bohemia-Moravia, Switzerland, and the Low Countries would also be part of it), then you need a scenario where Germany never gets or soon loses control of Italy. However, by no way such loss is necessary for a successful centralization/unification of the HRE at large, Germany + Italy. Both scenarioes are quite feasible with several PoDs, but HRE unification is more likely with an early (X-XIII century) PoD, German unification more likely with a late (XV-XVI century) PoD.
No I want Germany to be like Middle Age France. You know with Duchies and Counties and with Berlin as the capital.
Bavarian Raven
Banned
well if this were to happy, i could see poland dissapearing for good (being eventually germanized to a point where Poland is nothing but a distant memory), and I could see germany having a more active colonial life (though not super much, they have eastern europe to spread into).
Berlin? You'd be far more likely to have Frankfurt am Main or Aachen as the capital!
Berlin didn't gain importance until Brandenburg's rise to power.
Berlin wouldn't be the capital. It was a nowhere town surrounded, or just previously surrounded/inhabited by Slavs. You'd see a more historic, important capital chosen, like Aachen or something.
Although having Italy part of your early unified Germany might hold sentimental value for certain members, they're better off without it. Italy was a source of revenue, being a good deal more urbanized and linked into the trade network of the Med. But that revenue is also a key factor in why Italy fragmented. The Italian cities could set up pretty sizable forces on their own, while it often took whole duchies to build up a comparable force.
Perhaps an enterprising Emperor uses the wealth he receives from Italy to bring the other powers that be into line, but another Emperor cuts Italy away whenever that kingdom becomes a liability.
A unified Germany-Italy is more than possible at that point in time, but I insist it's a good deal less likely.
Perhaps an enterprising Emperor uses the wealth he receives from Italy to bring the other powers that be into line, but another Emperor cuts Italy away whenever that kingdom becomes a liability.
A unified Germany-Italy is more than possible at that point in time, but I insist it's a good deal less likely.
Berlin? You'd be far more likely to have Frankfurt am Main or Aachen as the capital!
Berlin didn't gain importance until Brandenburg's rise to power.
Which one is the best choice Frankfurt am Main or Aachen?
Berlin is a very unlikely capital for any German unification in Middle Ages. At the time of the first German emperors it wasn't even in Germany. I doubt the place had any importance before the seventeen century, and still then just as the capital of the least important among the Electorates. German Kings felt they needed Italy because they were the EMPERORS, not just the German Kings. To change this you should get rid of the HRE entirely, or have the Kings of Italy somewhat get the title instead. They'd try to mess up with the Byzantines probably, leaving the Germans alone and free to play Drang nach Osten as they like.
With a POD early enough, this might prevent Poland to get into existance as we know it. But still, if the german kings start to get powerful and victorious over the Slavic Pagans enough, they'd probably will throw greedier looks at Italy and Imperial crown. The place was just too valuable not be considered worth conquering especially by someone who felt to be more than a mere national king. Uhm. That's a tough one.
Hapsburg
Banned
I think it'd be interesting to see France obtain the title. Perhaps from some kind of better success against the Vikings and Spanish Moors? The Pope acclaims them as the Church's protector; France then wastes money and men trying to stick its dick into Italy's pie.
Germany, meanwhile, fends off the Magyars and Slavs, and unifies quite nicely under a strong Ottonian or Salian dynasty.
Germany, meanwhile, fends off the Magyars and Slavs, and unifies quite nicely under a strong Ottonian or Salian dynasty.
They had no right to have the title. The Germans were not apart of the Roman Empire. It was their fault that the Roman Empire fell anyway. It should have been given to the Italians. At least they were actually descended from the Romans.
von kressenstein
Banned
the sudo capital..
cities like hamburg or franfort or strasburg...
actually thinking it out just a tad.. if Vienna is apart of this .. then i could see it easily winning out depending on the date of POD.. but early on .. Strasburg, hamburg or franfortm Nuremberg was home of the Diet.. Aachen
I vote Nuremburg
cities like hamburg or franfort or strasburg...
actually thinking it out just a tad.. if Vienna is apart of this .. then i could see it easily winning out depending on the date of POD.. but early on .. Strasburg, hamburg or franfortm Nuremberg was home of the Diet.. Aachen
I vote Nuremburg
Aachen has more historical prestige since it was the main residence of Charlemagne. Frankfurt has a good central position before the state expands eastwards too much, and I kinda recall it was a thriving city in the Middle Ages. I guess that Mainz has a nice possibility too (it was the main ecclesiastical metropolis I think). Anyway, much depends on who unifies the country. The "capital" of his duchy/mark/whatever, if not really ill-placed, would probably stay as the real center of his power in the was Paris did in France.