WI Nicholas II decided make big reforms in Russia earlier?

Story say's that Nicholas II during his visit in Britain observed parliamentary work and debate in UK Parliament and that he was impressed. OTL when he became a Czar in 1894. he didn't do anything to introduce any major reforms in Russia until forced by 1905 Revolution.
But, WI Nicholas II decided to implement many important reforms right after his ascession on Throne?

abc123 said:

Story say's that Nicholas II during his visit in Britain observed parliamentary work and debate in UK Parliament and that he was impressed. OTL when he became a Czar in 1894. he didn't do anything to introduce any major reforms in Russia until forced by 1905 Revolution.
But, WI Nicholas II decided to implement many important reforms right after his ascession on Throne?

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Nicolas first act was creating Council of Ministers. As a Minister-president he named count Sergei Witte, and asked him to propose a list of other ministers.
So, names of ministers?

Minister of Foreign Affaires: Nikolay de Giers
Minister of War: general Aleksey Kuropatkin
Minister of Navy: admiral Stefan Makarov
Minister of Interior: Piotr Stolypin
Minister of Justice: Nikolay Muraviev
Minister of Finances: Eduard Pleske
Minister of Railways and Transport: Nikolay Bogolepov
Minister of Agriculture: Alexander Krivoshein
Minister of Industry and Trade:
Minister of Education: Vyacheslav von Plehve

Czar also decided that nobody can't be minister, Prime Minister, Imperial Army/Navy Chief of Staff, ambassador etc. more than two terms of 4 years, except if Czar gives him a special permission, but no more than 2 years extra time. Also, any military officer, no matter the rank, have to go in retirement after 65 years of age, or 40 years of military service.

Can someone help me to fill this ministerial posts? Ministers should be a moderate liberals and competent persons.

Nicholas also decided to stop russification policy in Kingdom of Poland and Great Duchy of Finland.
He decided from now rule in these countries as a separate ruler (king in Poland and a Great Duke in Finland ) and respect their authonomy.
He also wanted to become a King of Fnland so he will approach Parliament of Finland with suggestion that Finland becomes Kingdom, and he a King of Finland.

New Czar after his accession upon the Throne issued so called April Manifesto ( official name is: Manifesto on the Improvement of the State Order ) and announced bringing of first Constitution for Russian Empire and establishment of State Duma and State Council in 3 years period. It also promised basic liberties like: including personal immunity, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of association.


Nicholas also decided not to marry Alix of Hesse-Darmstadt, because political alliance with France was more important, so he decided to propose princess Helene of Orleans.
That descision will later prove as a good descision, because of hemophilia that Alix had carried in his genes.

I guess the revolution would be a lot different, but I can't see some kind of a revolution not happening. Maybe a more moderate outcome? I'm afraid I don't know much about it, but one would hope that fewer Russians would die in the coming century for it.

Nicholas also decided to make order in judicial system of Russian Empire. So he decided to make peasants a part of normal judicial system, so justices of the peace and and town judges were also responcible for trials upon peasants too.
He also returned election of jury triel in cases that his father abolished in 1888.
He also decided to found seven new Court of Apeel: in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kiev, Kazan, Tbilisi, Omsk and Vladivostok. They will take over a role of former Court of Cassation, and Supreme Court that will become highest court in whole Russia.
All judges of Supreme Court and Members of Senate were named by Czar for a 10 years period.
All other judges of 7 Courts of Appeal were named by Czar, with the approval of Senate.
All other judges of various courts ( except judges of peace that are elected by zemstvos and municipial dumas for a 3 years period ) will be named by Czar for duty until age of 65 years, with the approval of Senate.

JulianusApostaticus said:

I guess the revolution would be a lot different, but I can't see some kind of a revolution not happening. Maybe a more moderate outcome? I'm afraid I don't know much about it, but one would hope that fewer Russians would die in the coming century for it.

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We'll see about that...
This Nicholas II isn't OTL Nicholas. He's armed with pretty big amount of hindsightium.

Nicholas II decided to improve security of imperial family, so he decided that russian intelligence services will be organised:

a) Okhrana ( Department for Protecting of Public Security and Order ) will be under Ministry of interior ( but no part of State police ), they will be apart and under Assistant Minister of Interior- they will fight against extremists and against foreign spies, and other special operations

b) Special Okhrana Department was created as a part of His Imperial Majesty Chancellary ( they wil be under Czar's command ) and will protect life of Czar and Imperial family.

c) Military Intelligence Department ( as a part of General Staff of Imperial Army )- intelligence work in abroad

d) Military Security Department ( as a part of Ministry of War )- political surveillance in Imperial Army and fighting against foreign spies in Army

e) Naval Intelligence Department ( as a part of Admiral Staff of Imperial navy )- intelligence work in abroad

f) Naval Security Department ( as a part of Ministry of Navy )- political surveillance in Imperial Navy and fighting against foreign spies in Navy

Kingdom of Finland

Leading politicians in Finland were overjoyed with respecting of authonomy of Finland and not attempting of the russification, so they were more than happy to accept that Grand Duchy of Finland becomes a Kingdom. So Parliament of Finland brought a descision that Finland is from now Kingdom of Finland, and their King is Nicholas II.
So, Nicholas II, decided that he will have a coronation for a King of Finland in september 1894. in Helsinki. A new Crown was designed for that occasion:




Coronation was a magnificent event. Nicholas II announced enlargement of Royal Finnish Army and Royal Finnish Navy ( they will not be a part of Imperial Army/Navy ).

He also announced a parliamentary reform in Finland, combining three estates of Diet of Finland ( clergy, burghers and peasants ) into one: House of Commons ( 201 deputy ) and nobility stayed as a House of Nobility ( 201 member ).

Also, a reform in finnish Senate was planned, so that Governor-general will no longer be Chairman of the Senate. Senate will become a Supreme Court of Sinland, and Council of Ministers of Finland will be created. Council of Ministers will be chaired by Minister-President of Finland, not by Governor-Gemnneral as until that time.

Kingdom of Poland

Nicholas II also decided to reinstate polish authonomy.
So he decided to change his title into Krol/King of Poland instead of previous Tsar of Poland. That change was rather small, but simbolic.
Nicholas also decided to recreate Polish Diet, consisting of Sejm ( popularly elected Parliament ) and Senate ( House of Nobility ) and Council of Ministers.
Viceroy of Poland will be King's representative in Poland.
All attempts of russification were abolished.
Royal Polish Army was created. The Army was rather small, but again, political simbolics is the important thing.

Nicholas also decided to make coronation as a King of Poland, coronation was scheduled for spring of 1895. in Warschaw.

In the meantime, negotiations about codyfying of relations between Russian Empire, Kingdom of Poland and Kingdom of Finland were in progress.
After long discussions it was decided that:

- Kingdom of Poland and Kingdom of Finnland are not parts of Russian Empire, they are "federated countries" within of Russian Empire

- They will have own Army and Navy ( Finnland ) but Imperial Army/Navy units will stay in Finland and Poland for mutual protection.

- Russian Empire will guarantee security of Finland and Poland, and Finland and Poland will in times of war be allies of Russian Empire
Declaration of War in the name of Russian Empire will also be declaration of war in name of Finland and Polan too.

- Russian Imperial Minister of Foreign Affaires will also conduct foreign affaires of Finland and Poland

- Each country will have it's own money, in Russian Empire Rubla, in Finland Markka and in Poland Zloty. All tree currencies will be in same denominations and will be in legal use in all tree countries.

- Army/Navy of Poland and Finland will be trained by same standards as Imperial Army and will have same equipment, and during the war will be a part of Imperial Army and under command of Imperial General Staff.
Command language will be Polish and Finnish/Swedish, but all officers must know Russian language too.

Comments gentlemen?
I see that you are reading, but no comments? Help?

abc123 said:

- Russian Empire, Finland and Poland will also be in customs union and will use same money, but in Poland rubla will be called Zloty and in Finnland Markka, but banknotes and coins will be issued by State Bank of Russian Empire and will be in use in all three countries.

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Considering the upgrading of Finland's position as a Kingdom and the other moves towards a more federal setup, I am surprised you would see fit to abolish the Bank of Finland, and the semi-independent Markka, considering they have been around for nearly four decades at this point. This would definitely cause animosity among the Finnish economic circles, and I think the change would be more trouble than it is worth.

Also, I think 201 members in the new House of Lords is somewhat overkill. It would include members from almost two thirds of all the families introduced into the Finnish House of Nobility.

How, btw, are the members House of Commons elected? How universal is the suffrage?

DrakonFin said:

Considering the upgrading of Finland's position as a Kingdom and the other moves towards a more federal setup, I am surprised you would see fit to abolish the Bank of Finland, and the semi-independent Markka, considering they have been around for nearly four decades at this point. This would definitely cause animosity among the Finnish economic circles, and I think the change would be more trouble than it is worth.

Also, I think 201 members in the new House of Lords is somewhat overkill. It would include members from almost two thirds of all the families introduced into the Finnish House of Nobility.

How, btw, are the members House of Commons elected? How universal is the suffrage?

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Sorry for the Markka, I really didn't know about Markka.
It will be corected. Same for Poland.

But, to ensure a easy trade, IMO a full free use of Markka and Zloty in Russia and Rubla in Poland/Finland is a good thing?

That's the reason why your help is so valuable, I can't be expert on so many things...


About 201 member of House of Nobility, well, that's a historical number of members of Nobility estate in Finland.

About voting right for House of Commons, can you help me with that.
Universally suffrage is IMO still a too early, but in let's say 10 years period could be introduced....

So, for now ( 1894. )- some variation of russian system: 30 members rich citizens, 30 members poor citizens, 30 members academics, 30 members clergy, 30 members poor peasants, 30 members rich peasants? So, some sort of wealth franchise?

IMO democratic reforms earlier are actually likely to lead to an earlier revolution with much the same outcome (maybe slightly more moderate though). If Nicholas II wants to die in his bed, he's probably better off establishing a fascist-style police state (whether he had the guts to do that is beyond me).

teg said:

IMO democratic reforms earlier are actually likely to lead to an earlier revolution with much the same outcome (maybe slightly more moderate though). If Nicholas II wants to die in his bed, he's probably better off establishing a fascist-style police state (whether he had the guts to do that is beyond me).

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Well, TTL Nicholas is willing to at least try to do the right thing, even if that cost him his life.
Also, Nicholas has made preperations for life out of Russia ( he bought a number of estates in many foreign countries to settle there if nescesary, and made stacks of money in foreign banks ).

Imperial Foundations

Nicholas II was at the end of 19th Century arguably the richest man on the world.
His wealth was estimated in today's money as about 290 billions of US dollars.

So, he decided to use a small part of that money ( 10 % ) to help development of Russia.

So he decided to found 10 Imperial Foundations:

- Imperial Foundation for Promotion of Reading ( they have get about 2,9 billions of today's US dollars ) for educating many schoolteachers that will teach illiterate russian peasants to read and write

- Imperial Foundation for Science ( 2,9 billions ) for building many new universities in Russia, university fees were 50% of current university fees in Russia

- Imperial Foundation for Industry ( 2,9 billions ) for giving loans/establishing industrial/mining companies in Russia

- Imperial Foundation for Agriculture ( 2,9 billions ) for giving better livestock, horses, equipment to poor russian peasants and giving them favorable loans for buying land from nobility or settling in Kazakhstan steppes

- Imperial Foundation for Railways ( 2,9 billions ) for constructing railways

- Imperial Foundation for Schools ( 2,9 billions ) for constructing many elementary and high schools in Russia

- Imperial Foundation for Transsiberean Railway ( 6 billion ) for helping in construction of TSR

- Imperial Foudnation for Health ( 2,9 billions ) for building many new village medical centers and scolarships for future doctors

- Imperial Foundation for Housing ( 2,9 billions ) cheap loans for helping city workers to build his own house

Transsiberrean Railway OTL costed about 50 billions USD in today's money, so this 6 billions is a pretty small amount, but it will help to improve quality of Railroad.

All in all an impressive series of reforms, but why is Nicholas II doing all of this?

Why is a man who was a borderline retard, who was a reflexive autocrat, and who was almost completely unschooled acting as if he is intelligent, is thoughtful, is educated, and has a collection of history, sociology, and economic textbooks from 2011?

Why is Nicholas II behaving as if he's living in a game of Civilization?

Unless you answer the why, this is not a time line. Instead it's either just another roleplayng thread with the roleplaying limited to you or it's an ISOT. Either way, it doesn't belong on this board.

Don Lardo said:

All in all an impressive series of reforms, but why is Nicholas II doing all of this?

Why is a man who was a borderline retard, who was a reflexive autocrat, and who was almost completely unschooled acting as if he is intelligent, is thoughtful, is educated, and has a collection of history, sociology, and economic textbooks from 2011?

Why is Nicholas II behaving as if he's living in a game of Civilization?

Unless you answer the why, this is not a time line. Instead it's either just another roleplayng thread with the roleplaying limited to you or it's an ISOT. Either way, it doesn't belong on this board.

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OK, let's not be so harsh towards poor Nicholas, shall we?
Hardly that he could be a half-retard, he wouldn't survive for long on the Throne if he was a half-retard, or even more, he wouldn't even become a Czar.

And even if he wasn't doctor universalis, he was probably at least averagly educated monarch of his time.

True, his father was autocrat, but, his grandfather was just the opposite- a great reformer.
So, why couldn't he find a role-model in his grandfather? Wilhelm II did so.

Also, Wilhelm II also was autocrat, but not the same as russian Czar.
Why couldn't Nicky decide to try to modernise his country?
It must have been clear, even to him, that Russia is backwarded place in comparison with UK or Germany, or even Austro-Hungary.

So, POD is: Nicky goes in UK Parliament as OTL, but, and this is POD, this time he didn't forget what he has seen there. OTL he supposedly was pretty impressed with parliamentarism.

OFC, he must have been aware of impossibility of copy-paste british system in Russia, so he wouldn't do that.
Just make some reforms sooner.

OK, I admit that some things he has done, are hindsightium enhanced, but isn't any alternative history the same?

Transsiberean Railway

Work on Transsiberean Railway began in 1891. Works were opened in Vladivostok by then Tsarevich Nicholas himself. So, it was naturally his pet-project. But, the project suffered from the beggining by the lack of money. So, labour intensive methods would have to be used, and railway was to be a single tracked. Also, tracks were double lighter than standard ones and ties were less dence than standard.
Nicholas decided to try at least partially adress that questions.
First, he ordered that a deadline have to be prolonged, so that railway will be over by 1906. and not 1901 as originally intended.
Also he give a big amount of it's own money to help financing the railway. Even if this didn't solve all of problems, it did help to partially make railway much closer to European standards of quality.
He also appointed Imperial Envoy for Transsiberean Railway that will oversee construction and give reports to the Czar.

abc123 said:

OK, I admit that some things he has done, are hindsightium enhanced, but isn't any alternative history the same?

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Alternate history can and does include "hindsightium". (Nifty phrase, by the way!)

Alternate history on this particular board does not include "hindsightium". In fact, alternate history on this particular board is specifically meant not to include "hindsightium".

There are other boards, boards just as good as this one, which are meant for "hindsightium" threads and you've recently had two such threads moved to those boards for just that reason.

There needs to be a reason for Nicholas II to act so out of character and that reasons needs to be more than "Because I say so..."