1930's US cliches

[Technocrat]

Just working on some random ideas and props...

[Technocrat]

most of these general pics were originally from Sapiento's american warlords map

[anon_user]

If you're going the military-government route, why not Hugh Johnson?

Not sure Patton or Halsey would be likely picks at this point.

[cclittle]

Patton wasn't popular with other offices. That would be more important in this senario. Hulsey is the only navy man. Is his region going to in clude Calafornia with it's long coast line? Will it extend to Hawii and Pear Harbor? Guam, The Phillipines?

[TNF]

Originally Posted by anon_user

If you're going the military-government route, why not Hugh Johnson?

Not sure Patton or Halsey would be likely picks at this point.

Seconded. Johnson is a good pick for a proto-fascist military/government leader.

[Progressive Populist]

Floyd B. Olson of the Farmer-Labor Party would also be a good resistance leader

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_B._Olson

Are you planning on making a TL out of this?

[Alien and Sedition Bat]

In the resistance movement section, you list Upton Sinclair and Norman Thomas; how about adding Robert Heinlein, who was Sinclair's press secretary during the latter's run for gov of California? This would fit right in with Heinlein's fantasies of being a resistance leader, which he expressed in several of his books (like, If This Goes On--, and The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress).

As to the military governors you list, I think you sadly underestimate the loyalty of these great Americans to the U.S. Constitution; I don't see a single one of them going along with a coup d'etat, not even McArthur. Indeed, I can envisage McArthur leading the wing of the military that rebels against the coup leaders--he would see it as the greatest "performance" of his life.

Since the army was so small at that point, it might be possible for armed civilian bands, joined by lower level officers with ultraright politics, to take over. If they seize a couple of military bases by surprise and have a lot of World War One vets in their ranks, and immediately seize the capital and arrest Roosevelt, they might have a change of winning.

On officer who plausibly would have joined such a coup? Charles Willoughby (McArthur's intelligence chief and "pet fascist" during World War Two and Korea). On the other hand, Willoughby worshipped McArthur, so (assuming he would have met McArthur earlier than in OTL) even he might have opposed the coup.

[Grey Wolf]

I think I've missed something...

Who is the government, how and why? Er, that would at least help me understand what is being discussed!

btw you spelt La Follette's name wrong

Interesting premise tho

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Technocrat]

I wasn't portraying this as a fascist coup situation, or else I'd have Al Smith or Strom Thurmond, depending on the exact ideology in question, as loyalists.

Instead a "what if there was a botched revolution, general unrest, etc."

In fact, I rightly estimated these men by going along with what I'd been told that this whole class of officers were all extremely loyal to Pershing - most of them would never participate in other factions or go against his recommendation if he told them to stop.

Essentially the above is based on the cliche of "what if there is a fascist/communist/whatever uprising" and then presumes it's failed or is incomplete. Pershing and the rest are governing in a state of martial law trying to prevent communists, nazis, etc. from taking over. In the process they rub a lot of good men, like the resistance leaders, the wrong way.

Sorry I didn't make it clear. THis is a "cliche" thread for a reason, I don't have a timeline. This is just props and ideas.

[Hyperbolus]

Maybe a second round of coalfield wars in appalachia as a catalyst. IIRC there was a general strike in Seattle c. 1919, so that could also be a possibility.
Father coughlin stirred up a fair amount of controversy in OTL, so that remains a possibility and Henry Ford acting as paymaster/stamp of "respectability" for the hard right would seem all to plausible.
Perhaps the military/corporate junta goes to war with Cardenas' Mexico if/when the oilfields are nationalized.

[TyranicusMaximus]

At least you've avoided the "MacArthur leads a coup against FDR" nonsense.

[Alien and Sedition Bat]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

I wasn't portraying this as a fascist coup situation, or else I'd have Al Smith or Strom Thurmond, depending on the exact ideology in question, as loyalists.

Instead a "what if there was a botched revolution, general unrest, etc."

In fact, I rightly estimated these men by going along with what I'd been told that this whole class of officers were all extremely loyal to Pershing - most of them would never participate in other factions or go against his recommendation if he told them to stop.

Essentially the above is based on the cliche of "what if there is a fascist/communist/whatever uprising" and then presumes it's failed or is incomplete. Pershing and the rest are governing in a state of martial law trying to prevent communists, nazis, etc. from taking over. In the process they rub a lot of good men, like the resistance leaders, the wrong way.

Sorry I didn't make it clear. THis is a "cliche" thread for a reason, I don't have a timeline. This is just props and ideas.

This doesn't take into consideration the federal structure build into the U.S. Constitution. If there were a national emergency, this would not necessitate bypassing the state governments and establishing regional military governors. If sedition has to be suppressed the military might cooperate with the national guard in particular states where the problem was most intense, but they would do so under civilian control. The ONLY situation in which your scenario would make sense would be if there were a coup d'etat against the U.S. Constitution in which the military was involved. And even then, the regional military bosses you list do not reflect the actual chain of command in the 1930s in a rational way. This list of individuals would only come to power on a "political" basis outside the normal chain of command, i.e., as part of an Argentine style "junta."

Thus I regard the idea as basically ASB although it would be fun to explore some variation of it on that basis.

[Technocrat]

As this does not involve magic or aliens, I'll feel free to play around with this concept in an unstructured way on this board, thank you very much.

[Technocrat]

[Fenwick]

You should include Jay Lovestone as a resistance. He was against Foster and held actual CP power.

[Technocrat]

Would the CPUSA really cooperate with "infantile leftists" though?