Look to the West -- Thread II

[ArKhan]

Originally Posted by Thande

Don't quote images. You'll be able to see the internal borders more clearly when I get around to doing some UPSA election maps.

I didn't relise I had quoted the image until after I posted it. As for UPSA election maps, AWESOME!

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by Thande

Don't quote images. You'll be able to see the internal borders more clearly when I get around to doing some UPSA election maps.

As these are MMP, but without boroughs (IIRC), will we be seeing a variation on the Nugaxian Election Map Scheme?

[Nugax]

Originally Posted by ArKhan

I didn't relise I had quoted the image until after I posted it. As for UPSA election maps, AWESOME!

Go back and edit your post then if you realised what you did .

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Thande

Finished finalising borders with Nugax's help and he has made this fantastic map of South America in the Democratic Experiment period (this overrules the preliminary borders I sketched on the temporary map above). Note the Amazon is now used as the source of the initial arbitrary division of Brazil in the north; later the ENS and UPSA are both going to cede territory to Guyana, as it is more sensibly administered from the new Guyanan capital of Belém and Guyana effectively becomes a condominium client of both ENS and UPSA.

Incredibly persuasive at getting one to change borders, isn't he?

Originally Posted by Thande

So let us all praise Nugax for his wondrous command of Inkscape witchcraft.

Here, here!
Mapmaker extraordinaire.

Originally Posted by Thande

(One minor correction I've just noticed--Tobago and the Windward Isles are part of the ENA rather than Guyanan/separate Hanoverian possessions as indicated here. Aruba being part of Guyana is correct though).

Don't you just HATE those minor anomalies you discover AFTER you give him the authority to post it/or post it yourself? And you know you have only yourself to blame? Yup, been there done that.

3 cheers for Nugax, again.

[Nugax]

Thande, if you'd kept it on the deviantart link you've noticed I changed the hosted file seconds after you pointed out that error

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...ff-d4qhzwt.png

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Dath THorfinnson

Incredibly persuasive at getting one to change borders, isn't he?

Tell me about it. The only other more persuasive member we have is Hendryk when he's trying to get you to write more short stories for his TL (I wish I had that ability ). But to be fair I didn't have a narrative need for any strictly precise borders when I planned it--I've learned enough from writing this to keep it vague in case you need to retcon.

Originally Posted by Nugax

Thande, if you'd kept it on the deviantart link you've noticed I changed the hosted file seconds after you pointed out that error

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...ff-d4qhzwt.png

Thanks, I get paranoid about relying on other hosting sites...I won't bother changing mine since you've just posted the link again.

[Thande]

I wanted to try out the fab new UPSA electoral map Nugax sent me, but I don't want to cover the Cortes elections until I've better worked out the regional political dynamics...so I've just done the presidential election of 1837, Almada's landslide victory.

Note: unlike the USA's electoral college, victory in the UPSA's presidential election is based on national popular vote, so it doesn't matter if you won the popular vote in a particular province or not--this is just intended to show broad strokes of voting dynamics. It doesn't look like a landslide because of all the big sparsely populated areas in the south that vote Amarillo because the Amarillos were responsible for starting the colonisation process and are thought of as the most friendly to southern frontiersmen. Note the Adamantine popular vote victory in the province of Chile, easily the most populous of all the provinces. In the national popular vote the Amarillos came third behind the Colorados.

I have used blue for the Adamantines (their colour is white in reality) because you can't show gradations or shades of white in case I need to in the future. Also, Mato Grosso in the north is white because it's a non-voting territory.

Finally this should be a useful crib for people who couldn't make out all the province names on Nugax's map (not to diss Nugax, it's just a consequence of that fab atlas-style font he uses coupled to the UPSA's yellow colour).

[Analytical Engine]

Originally Posted by Thande

Stadtholder actually just means "lieutenant" in Dutch (there was once a Francophobic proposal to change the British rank of lieutenant to the English equivalent, "steadholder"). Originally the title basically meant the viceroy that the King of Spain put there to govern the Netherlands (as in the whole Low Countries) in his name. After the Dutch revolt it became the title of the monarch-but-not-quite of the crowned republic. In TTL it has simply reverted to its earlier meaning. Because there was also a Stadtholder in Flanders (as there was in OTL in the Austrian Netherlands), this means there are now two Stadtholders under one crown, one in the north and one in the south.

Ah, fair enough. So, what, is it now used a bit like the Lords Lieutennant in Britain?

This will be covered in future parts but I can reveal that basically Nieuw Holland is considered an extension of the VOC government in Batavia, so how Dutch Java goes, Nieuw Holland goes.

Originally Posted by Beedok

I get the feeling that Australian Batavia will try to become the heartland through being more Dutch, but that they'll need to keep the Javans happy so that might not work out.

Originally Posted by Thande

Remember northern Australia is basically just sand and a few settlements even now, there's no way they can have enough people and resources for that to work.

Fair enough.

By the way Thande, you do realise that you've channeled TEH BOAT PEOPLE CALIPHATE!!!1!, don't you?

Oh, and everyone: the next part is Volume IV, not Volume III. Volume III is what's just happened. I realise this is confusing because I started a second thread after Volume II, not Volume I; I'm tempted to make the next thread "Look to the West, Thread III, Volume IV, Tottenham Nil"

Originally Posted by Thande

(One minor correction I've just noticed--Tobago and the Windward Isles are part of the ENA rather than Guyanan/separate Hanoverian possessions as indicated here. Aruba being part of Guyana is correct though).

I'm sure you mentioned before that the Dutch bought Tobago off Courland...

*Looks it up*

Ah, I was mistaken.

I thought it was reffered in the bit where Denmark-etc. sold off its colonies - the king considered selling the Danish Virgin Islands to Courland, but eventually sold it to the Dutch.

I take it that Britain grabbed Tobago ITTL as well. But then why isn't it considered part of the Windwards Islands?

[Nugax]

Originally Posted by Analytical Engine

I take it that Britain grabbed Tobago ITTL as well. But then why isn't it considered part of the Windwards Islands?

If it was well organised it'd hardly seem British would it ? Though you are right, Tobago has a tiny population and economy compared to the demographic powerhouses of Barbados and St Lucia.

[Thande]

Tobago is currently administered together with the Windward Isles, but I kept it ambiguous because how to organise the former British Caribbean within the ENA is going to be an upcoming plot point and this map is set in 1845, which I haven't entirely planned up to in detail yet. Take it as a purely geographic label rather than implying there is an administrative unit called "Tobago".

[Analytical Engine]

Originally Posted by Thande

Tobago is currently administered together with the Windward Isles, but I kept it ambiguous because how to organise the former British Caribbean within the ENA is going to be an upcoming plot point and this map is set in 1845, which I haven't entirely planned up to in detail yet. Take it as a purely geographic label rather than implying there is an administrative unit called "Tobago".

Ah, thankee.

I guess that Jamaica (inc. the Caymans?) and the Bahamas (including the Turcs and Caicos) are going to be seperate provinces/territories(/one then the other) of Carolina.

[Faeelin]

Actually, how are the UPSA run anyway? Whnen I look at that map and compare it to the USA, it's unclear how the region works. What ties the Amazonia to Buenos Aires? Or Santiago?

[Nugax]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

Actually, how are the UPSA run anyway? Whnen I look at that map and compare it to the USA, it's unclear how the region works. What ties the Amazonia to Buenos Aires? Or Santiago?

Roads? Rivers? Common identity?

[EmmettMcFly55]

Originally Posted by Thande

Stadtholder actually just means "lieutenant" in Dutch (there was once a Francophobic proposal to change the British rank of lieutenant to the English equivalent, "steadholder"). Originally the title basically meant the viceroy that the King of Spain put there to govern the Netherlands (as in the whole Low Countries) in his name. After the Dutch revolt it became the title of the monarch-but-not-quite of the crowned republic. In TTL it has simply reverted to its earlier meaning. Because there was also a Stadtholder in Flanders (as there was in OTL in the Austrian Netherlands), this means there are now two Stadtholders under one crown, one in the north and one in the south.

Actually, what you're describing here sounds more like the OTL landvoogd (Vogt in English, apparently) who did indeed rule the Low Countries in name of the monarch. The Stadtholder, however, ruled the provinces, first in name of the monarch, later in name of the provinces' Estates. However, like you imply, the position of Stadtholder soon rose far above being a servant of the government, especially after the Orange-Nassaus came to the position of Stadtholder in all of the provinces. The position of landvoogd, on the other hand, was never used anymore after the Dutch Republic was established in 1588.

[Thande]

Originally Posted by EmmettMcFly55

Actually, what you're describing here sounds more like the OTL landvoogd (Vogt in English, apparently) who did indeed rule the Low Countries in name of the monarch. The Stadtholder, however, ruled the provinces, first in name of the monarch, later in name of the provinces' Estates. However, like you imply, the position of Stadtholder soon rose far above being a servant of the government, especially after the Orange-Nassaus came to the position of Stadtholder in all of the provinces. The position of landvoogd, on the other hand, was never used anymore after the Dutch Republic was established in 1588.

I hadn't realised that distinction before, thanks for pointing that out. (I keep finding institutions that prove the Netherlands is more confederal than I thought it was, and pretty much always has been).

[Lycaon pictus]

Awesome TL. I've finally finished reading the whole thing… and now I want to know what happens next.

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Lycaon pictus

Awesome TL. I've finally finished reading the whole thing… and now I want to know what happens next.

Thank you. I was going to put this on hiatus for a while because I'd run out of ideas, but they're starting to flow now so I may come back to it sooner than I thought. Still going to focus on other projects for a while, but I do have some people who say they want to write Tales from LTTW and I might do one myself as well.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Thande

Thank you. I was going to put this on hiatus for a while because I'd run out of ideas, but they're starting to flow now so I may come back to it sooner than I thought. Still going to focus on other projects for a while, but I do have some people who say they want to write Tales from LTTW and I might do one myself as well.

Yay! The hiatus will be shortened!

[Grand Prince Paul II.]

What exactly happened to the VOC posessions in Ceylon and India during the Popular Wars and after the nationalisation of the VOC?
Were they took over by the French EIC/Portuguese EIC, the Indian Board as the whole in order to prevent shift of power between the European companies or the new United Belgian Company?

Has the Guyana Republic continued to maintain the GWC trade posts in Guinea?

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Grand Prince Paul II.

What exactly happened to the VOC posessions in Ceylon and India during the Popular Wars and after the nationalisation of the VOC?
Were they took over by the French EIC/Portuguese EIC, the Indian Board as the whole in order to prevent shift of power between the European companies or the new United Belgian Company?

Has the Guyana Republic continued to maintain the GWC trade posts in Guinea?

I was going to cover that in the part above but the events involved extended too much into the 1840s to fit very well into the narrative, so it will be covered in the future.