Disaster at Leuthen TL - Frederick the Great dies in battle

[RandomWriterGuy]

There is a TL named God Is A Frenchman that may provide you some inspiration.

[Ahab]

Is this tread alive yet? because it's too awesome to die!

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by Ahab

Is this tread alive yet? because it's too awesome to die!

It's alive don't worry. I've just been sick recently so I haven't managed to get round to updating it.

[kasumigenx]

I think Lower Silesia north of Oder and Upper Silesia will be inevitably ceded back to Poland in the Age of Nationalism, since it was predominantly Polish before Frederick the Great seized Silesia and it will remain as that because it remains a part of the Habsburg Empire.

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by kasumigenx

I think Lower Silesia north of Oder and Upper Silesia will be inevitably ceded back to Poland in the Age of Nationalism, since it was predominantly Polish before Frederick the Great seized Silesia and it will remain as that because it remains a part of the Habsburg Empire.

Well with a stronger Poland ITTL that's definitely a possibility. Though the rise of nationalism will be delayed compared to OTL, and will be dealt with differently. The only real nationalist movement in the world at this time is in the United Kingdom of the Danube, and that is a top-down nationalism not the other way around. But yes Silesia will remain a hot spot as Poland seeks to reassert itself.

[RandomWriterGuy]

I was wondering about if the Balkans will become independent all together over time.

[Direwolf22]

( A mini update of sorts. Covers areas and events during the Age of Revs. outside of Europe, India and the Americas in brief; as well as giving me an excuse to update and show a world map. Work on a larger update on Germany is still ongoing. Hope to post soon).

Exploration and Conquest
(1790-1810)

Out of all the major colonial powers only the Dutch managed to stay neutral from the great conflicts of the turn of the century. This roughly twenty year period has been called by some, mainly Dutch writers, as the second Golden Age of the Netherlands. As Britain and France dueled across the globe, Dutch explorers and colonists gradually expanded the nation's overseas empire and charting new lands. While the British were pre-occupied elsewhere a Dutch expedition had set off from Jakarta and headed southeast to make good Dutch claims on Nieuw Zeeland . A successful colony was established at New Rotterdam in 1797. During this time the Dutch too consolidated their control over Sumatra, Ceylon and various other colonies. The Anglo-French wars over India had, not only distracted them from actions elsewhere, but had worried the Dutch who feared that such conflict would disrupt their lines of communication from the base in South Africa to Asia. In the early 1800s therefore the Dutch began claiming and settling the island of Madagascar (with settlers drawn from those in South Africa and families wishing to escape from the troubles in Europe), their colony there was named. From 1802-1805 the Dutch fought the Merinan War, the only major Dutch conflict of the period. The local African kingdom put up a brave struggle but was eventually subdued and placed under Dutch influence, de jure independent but de facto run by the Netherlands. In this period too the Dutch East India Company which had been experiencing a relative decline was abolished. Instead the various colonies in the east were divided into African, Indian and East Indian regions each with a 'capital' of sorts (Cape Town, Colombo and Jakarta) and was ruled by a Viceroy appointed from the Netherlands; the move was designed to increase government control over the colonies and increase direct management, a plan influenced by British actions in Bengal and North America. The only incident of real concern for the Dutch was a dispute with Britain in 1805 over Australia and Nieuw Zeeland, both of which were claimed by Britain and the Netherlands. In the end, with neither side wanting war, it was agreed that Australia would be recognised as Britain's while the Dutch maintained their influence over Nieuw Zeeland.By the year 1810 the Dutch Empire in the Indian Ocean was a strong and rich collection of colonies, trading posts and military outposts.


Elsewhere in the world Britain and France had, once the war ended, begun picking up a few pieces of their own. Spanish Hispaniola and Pueto Rico had been seized by Britain during the war with Spain. Puerto Rico was returned to the Spanish Republic in 1806 by Britain, though they kept the rest. Britain too had cemented its claim on Australia while establishing new bases in Africa and the South Atlantic. It also waged a campaign of conquest along the African east coast, taking a few bases, to secure their own passage to India. France had not been wonderfully successful outside of Europe during the Age of Revolutions. In the immediate post-war period it was occupied with defeating a rebellion in its colony in Saint-Domingue and reasserting its influence in southeastern India. It caught a lucky break in 1807 however. The Treaty of Paris had placed all former Spanish colonial territory under Republican control, minus of course the lands controlled by the UPA, New Granada and the Kingdom of La Plata. The Republic tried hard to reassert itself in these lands and had varying degrees of success; in the Philippines though they encountered a serious problem. The Spanish officials in Manilla were loyal to the King in Barcelona and refused to submit to Republican authority. They rebelled and by 1808 were in control of most of the islands. The Spanish (Republic and Kingdom) lacked the ability, or indeed the will in some cases, to reconquer the islands. In Britain there was fierce debate on what to do, do they take the islands for their own, or give them to the republic, or leave them be etc. By the time they came to a conclusion however, it was too late. The French, who had fortunately sent a fleet to India recently to reinforce and replace the garrison, had no such dilemma. In 1809 the French expedition sailed to Manilla and overwhelmed and seized the colony for themselves. The French replaced the Spanish as colonial governors and the natives went on about their business. The Republic and Britain protested the move, but did nothing; so recently embroiled in war. The Spanish Kingdom expected the French to turn the islands over to them. The French had no intention of doing so however and the result was a cooling of relations between Paris and Barcelona. The conflict however was a great success for France and reignited French colonial ambitions, though the expense and effort of holding the Philippines was to prove greater than expected for France.

The World in 1810: Following the End of the Age of Revolutions

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by RandomWriterGuy

I was wondering about if the Balkans will become independent all together over time.

I'm confused, are you asking if the Balkans will become one independent country? Then the answer is no.

[RandomWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by Direwolf22

I'm confused, are you asking if the Balkans will become one independent country? Then the answer is no.

No, I'm saying if each region will soon be independent.

[RandomWriterGuy]

I'm confused. I saw a map of North America in the TL and it showed France controlling most of OTL Canada, now I see Britain controlling some of that land. Is it possible the map with the French-dominated North America is wrong?

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by RandomWriterGuy

I'm confused. I saw a map of North America in the TL and it showed France controlling most of OTL Canada, now I see Britain controlling some of that land. Is it possible the map with the French-dominated North America is wrong?

France lost a lot of its Canadian territories to Britain in the Treaty of Paris. It now has only its core Quebec land left, so the above map is the correct one.

Originally Posted by RandomWriterGuy

No, I'm saying if each region will soon be independent.

Well it remains to be seen if the Turks can hold them; though the first dominoes may have fallen.

[RandomWriterGuy]

Other questions about the North American map.

Will Louisiana have a Manifest Adestiny like the OTL USA?

Will France get the Canadian land back?

Will the Southern USA area face slavery rebellion soon?

[Razgriz 2K9]

I dunno if it would be wise for a Manifest Destiny for Louisiana, only since it'd piss of the British in the case of New England...though it would be awesome for Louisiana to control the Pacific Northwest

[CobaltKnight]

I'm feeling like there will be a race for colonies sooner in TTL than in our own.

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by RandomWriterGuy

Other questions about the North American map.

Will Louisiana have a Manifest Adestiny like the OTL USA?

Will France get the Canadian land back?

Will the Southern USA area face slavery rebellion soon?

Kind of. Louisiana will have a desire to "Spread the Revolution to the Pacific", but it won't be a quasi-religious notion like the US had.

No it won't. French expansionism in North America is at an end, they are concerned now more with maintaining their territory, and expanding their empire elsewhere.

Yes. This will be a major issue in North America. Especially with Louisiana backing the slaves.

Originally Posted by Razgriz 2K9

I dunno if it would be wise for a Manifest Destiny for Louisiana, only since it'd piss of the British in the case of New England...though it would be awesome for Louisiana to control the Pacific Northwest

Well Louisiana isn't looking to invade New England. A push to the Pacific yes, though not to the east. We're gonna have a Louisiana-UPA-Britain-Russia-Native struggle for the northwest.

Originally Posted by CobaltKnight

I'm feeling like there will be a race for colonies sooner in TTL than in our own.

Yup. We've got the Dutch, French, Brits, and Spains all looking for territory. Plus New England is after all a maritime power.

[RandomWriterGuy]

But there is still and for France in Canada to claim. Why can't they look towards that?

The "foolish fatherland" scenario will happen to the Latin American states, right?

Will the Spanish Republic hold on to Peru forever? And if not, what will happen to it?

Will Brazil gain independence?

Will France conquer most of North Africa as it did in OTL?

Will Britain also claim South Africa?

Will India be owned by one of the two conquerors if a major war over it has occurred?

Will there be a developed code similar to the Napoleonic Code?

Will there be any movement for a unified Germany or Italy?

Will Switzerland still be recognized as a neutral state?

[Kuld von Reyn]

Been a while since the last update. How's that update on Germany coming along?

[Direwolf22]

(Excuses, excuses. Better late than never. Hopefully this will be followed soon by more updates. Back to Germany now then off to the Americas.)

A New Germany
1800-1830

The old balance of power in Germany had been broken by the Treaty of Rome (1799) and a new political status quo had settled in central Europe. The period of the Triumvirate (c.1770-1799) was now at an end. Prussia remained a strong power in northern Germany though it had not majorly expanded following the Revolutionary Wars and the damage done by the reign of the previous king Frederick William to the military being readily apparent. The nation however had managed to reassert itself somewhat. Under the determined King Wilhelm the army had been restored to its previous prestige and had held its own with pride during the fighting against Saxons, Bavarians and the French. Saxony-Bavaria was now a unified country and dominated a large stretch of German lands in the east. It did however have a long and volatile border with Austria to its east and Prussia sitting to its north. Austria-Hungary had reforged itself into a united empire and sought to balance itself between west and east Europe. It still wielded great influence within Germany, despite the end of the Holy Roman Empire, through its close ties with Berlin and Dortmund. The League of the Rhine was the newest political force on the scene, and represented a new power block. Friendly with Vienna and a close ally of the Prussians, the League was the banner carrier for the German reformists. Hanover was the fifth major player now in Germany. Ruled by the ageing and increasingly deluded King George (formerly George III of Britain) the nation was at odds with its neighbours and was increasingly being drawn into the French sphere while courting the Poles.


Prussia was on the winning side of the Revolutionary Wars. It had however gained little for its efforts. It had received a few fromer Saxon lands in the west, though they were now members of the League of the Rhine. The administrative grey area between Berlin and Dortmund over who ruled these lands would be a thorn in the otherwise close relations these two countries shared until the matter was resolved following the Pommeranian War. The Prussian nation went through a military renaissance under Wilhelm in the decades following the Treaty of Rome. The cultural period that went hand in hand with neglect for the army that prevailed uner Frederick William was reviled by the Prussian elite. The traditionalists came once more to the forefront in this new period. The army was restored to its previous position at the heart of the Prussian nation. Buoyed by military success in the war the young King Wilhelm yearened for another conflict, one that would be a decisive Prussian triumph. In the late 1810s Prussia tried to push Poland towards war by demanding the portion of land seperating Brandenburg from East Prussia. Poland obviously refused, as intended. King Wilhelm did not get his war though, when it became clear that Austria would not support them (as Vienna was still focused on the post-war situation in the Balkans) and France announced it would support its Bourbon ally, the Prussians backed down. In 1826 however with many of the great powers focussed elsewhere, Berlin got its war. A small skirmish with Swedish troops in the north was exploted by the Prussian government as an excuse to seize Pomerania. The Prussian army soon moved into the Swedish territory. A battle in August of 1826 near Stettin was won decisively by the Prussians. Further advance was delayed though by Swedish maritime control, which landed a fresh Swedish army in the north. Swedish diplomacy soon brought Denmark and nearby Mecklenburg (both concerend about Prussian expansionism) into the war on their side. A few months later though the Prussians managed to bring a Swedish-Mecklenburg army to battle near Anklam, which again was a crushing victory for the Prussians. Anklam was exploited by Berlin and a deal was signed with Dortmund for the military support of the League. In exchange the disputed Prussian territory in the Rhineland was ceded to the League (they were to become special zones ruled directly by the Grand Marshal).


League forces, acting for the first time as a united military unit, invaded Danish Oldenburg. The League forces were initially repuled by the more organized Danish forces. However two decades of industrialisation in the League soon played its part. From 1808 to 1825 railroad construction had spread rapidly across the Rhineland. British industrialists provided the early expertise (for which they made great profit) but soon the Rhinelanders themselves took over the majority of the project. The complex waterways and natural resource rich lands of the area proved perfect breeding grounds for this type of industrialism. Though it began in Britain the Industrial Revolution was well undeway in the League by the early 1820s. The unique political structure of the League, divided yet unified, provided ample competition for growth while provding enough political security for private enterprise. The railroads allowed Rhinelander forces to be gathered quickly from throughout the League which in 1828 launched a new offensive into Oldenburg which overwhelmed the Danish defenders. Other domestic events in the League were quiet and served more as a precurssor to future events than anything dynamic in their own right. Some notable events were the 1817 death of Maximilian Francis of Cologne. Without a legal heir there was dispute over who should succeed him as King. The issue was avoided however when in Cologne, always one of the more reformist states, the people declared a republic following the Spanish style. Hans Maier, an influential and wealthy lawyer (as well as a veteran of the Revolutionary Wars) was elected the nation's first Chancellor. He did not inherit the title of Grand Marshall however which the League electors voted to give to King Philipp of Westphalia, who like many of the other League monarchs had been made king (drawn from either the clergy or nobility, in this case the latter), following the Treaty of Rome. The existence of a republic within the League was feared to become a major divisive issue, but turned out not to be so, perhaps the election of a monarch to Grand Marshall helped balance this issue. Cologne, however, would prove to be far from the last of the League states to abandon the monarchist system.



The Prussians had followed up their victory at Anklam by invading Mecklenburg. Resistance to the Prussian advance gradually collapsed throughout 1828. Wismar fell in July and signalled the effective end of resistance. Denmark was committed to fighting on but with Mecklenburg overrun and the government in Stockholm now determined to make peace due to reports of Russian troops massing along the Finnish border in the east, peace was signed in Vienna in August of 1828. Pomerania and Mecklenburg were ceded to Prussia while Oldenburg became the latest member of the League of the Rhine, chooising its own king drawn for the local nobility (though Oldenburg would always remain one of the more conservative of the League states). The victory restored Prussian pride and was the League's first forray into the international stage. So successful was it that the Duchy of Trier, wary of France, applied to enter the League in early 1829, and was accepted. Other German states however were less impressed and more concerend about the League-Prussian alliance. Hanover (now ruled by George's son William, one of the few of his children to flee with him to Hanover) signed an alliance with Saxony-Bavaria while the reamining southern German nations too began to look to foreign alliances and collective defense.


The years following the Revolutionary Wars were a time of great change in Austria. The nation, now known as Austria-Hungary, experienced rapid constitutional change. Joseph II, known in Austria to this day as “Joseph the Great Reformer” died in 1806. He was succeeded by his son, Francis, crowned Francis I Emperor of Austria and Hungary, King of Bohemia and Croatia. Francis, like his father, was a reformist, though perhaps more pragmatic and less ideological than his father. The early years of Francis' reign were focused on the Balkans. The Ottoman retreat from this area was celebrated in Vienna and Budapest, the defeat of their ancient enemy was always good news. However the mood was soon dampened when it became evident that Russia had now replaced the Turk as the dominant power in this region. The new nations of Serbia, Greece and the UKD all were allies of the Tsar and gave him considerable influence in the Balkans. Consequently Francis, quietly, began improving relations with the Ottomans. Neither liked the other but both feared the bear more. Though no official alliance was signed Austro-Turkish relations improved strongly in this period and both were determined to halt the Russian advance south. Francis too in this period improved upon the already established system of mandaroty education. Encouraging its growth throughout the Empire, as well as making German as well as Magyar compulsory for all students. Higher education too was expanded and improved, with the University of Vienna becoming arguably the greatest in continental Europe; though women still were barred, or discouraged, from most high learning. A small rising took place in Illyria in 1827 but it was soundly defeated. Francis too sought to court Poland, seen as a useufl ally against Russia. This was one of the major failings of Austrian diplomacy in this period. Though cautious of Russia, Poland too feared Austria's ally Prussia, while still harbouring territorial designs on Silesia, which would soon lead to war between the two nations. Consequently King Louis II preferred to maintain his alliance with his Bourbon cousin in France.


Saxony-Bavaria was a new force on the world stage following the Treaty of Rome. It was however an artifical creation, joined solely by dynastic union. The ageing Frederick-Augusts I was no reformer. His rule saw the forcing together of these two nations. The militaries were integrated and rule was increasingly centralised in Munich. Though Dresden was the Saxon capital, it was seen as too vulnerable to attack, plus Munich had a grander history and prestige to it, or so the King saw it. Saxony-Bavaria had intended to intervene in the Pommeranian War against Prussia in the 1820s but eventually stayed out for three principal reasons: lack of forthcoming French support, the fear of Austrian intervention and the string of Prussian victories. Instead the Saxobavarians invaded neighbouring Gotha and conquered the nation in only a few weeks. Frederick-Augusts I died in 1826 and was succeeded by his son, Maximilian. In all the period of 1800-1830 was a quiet time for this new nation. It saw the welding together of these two nations and the creation of a Saxobavarian identity. The nation did not, like the League, industrialise and instead was a centre of reactionism, arugably the centre of it in Europe. The alliance with France was paramount in Munich's foreign policy. This however caused discontent amongst other south German states. The union of Swabia and Ansbach in 1828 (creating the United Kingdom of Swabia) as well as the alliance signed between Hessia and Wurzburg (1829) can both be attributed to Saxobavarian activies in this period. Talks between the remaining three German nations (Baden, Wurttemberg and the Palatinate) had amounted to nothing by 1830.

[Direwolf22]

Unsure on what to do about Holstein. Shall I have it join Denmark? Or maybe have it drawn into the League's sphere?

[Iserlohn]

Originally Posted by Direwolf22

Unsure on what to do about Holstein. Shall I have it join Denmark? Or maybe have it drawn into the League's sphere?

First of all: Interesting developments, the expansion of Prussia and the League of the Rhine are fitting geopolitically speaking, Swabia was already predicted by your readership and, again, just fits. Also good forshadowing on the future Polish-Austrian War. If France intervenes in that it can be quite the bloody conflict (Austria, Prussia, the League vs. France and Poland, ouch).

Regarding Holstein... The German population will most likely see Prussia and the League as a way to remain independent, with Austria-Hungary and Hannover being an alternative. I honestly don't think that they would want to (re-)join Denmark, seeing how Denmark took a too heavy recently.