Disaster at Leuthen TL - Frederick the Great dies in battle

[Direwolf22]

The World 1790: On the eve of the Age of Revolutions:




This map is more different from OTL than the Europe one (especially in India and North America).

Please point out any glaring mistakes.

[SavoyTruffle]

North America is painted a very nice shade of blue. And India a nice shade of purple.

And a major difference in this 1790 is the PLC keeping their 1699 borders.

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle

North America is painted a very nice shade of blue. And India a nice shade of purple.

And a major difference in this 1790 is the PLC keeping their 1699 borders.

Yeah, but dont worry North America will be getting less blue pretty soon. Mhmm Poland is stronger but I still think this map is a bit too similar to OTL; I'll try and change all that in the Age of Revs.

[Direwolf22]

The Age of Revolutions
(1790-1820)
Part I: Vive le Revolution!

The approximate three decades following the Parisian Rising are oft referred to as the “Age of Revolutions”. During this time Europe and the Americas would be shaken by a series of revolutions, wars, counter-revolutions, civil wars and rebellions the likes of which have never been seen before or after. The spark of this tumultuous period was the so-called Parisian Rising. This event would ignite a far greater rising across the Atlantic before seeing the fire sweep its way across central and eastern Europe.

France at the dawn of the Age of Revolutions was at a crossroads in its history. It was a strong, proud and wealthy state. Victory in the Four Year’s War and in the Franco-Mysore War had left France with a dominant position in Europe as well as a formidable overseas empire. It’s current ruler Louis XVI [1] was the envy of the other monarchs of the world. Since he took the throne Louis XVI had on numerous occasions attempted to initiate numerous reforms throughout France, which were repeatedly blocked time and again by the actions and protests of the nobility. Louis XVI was unwilling to be drawn into conflict with the nobility and thus backed down, a process which gradually weakened his position in the eyes of the aristocracy. The failure of these reforms was one of the principal cause of the exodus of political thinkers that took place in the 1770s and 1780s, chiefly to Austria and New Orleans.

In practice what this meant was that the people of France were still in the same social and political status that they were before the Four Year’s War. As word of the reforms in Russia and Austria began to make themselves known amongst the general public, the call for such changes to take place in France. The most important desire being the abolition of serfdom, something the aristocracy were unsurprisingly reluctant to adhere to. Critically of course the common people had no notion of the ongoing struggle between nobility and king and to their knowledge it was the monarch who was preventing reform. This general mood was seized upon by those middle class reformers that remained in Paris. They decided to meet and draft a petition to the king calling for numerous reforms, chief among them freedom from serfdom and a calling for an elected legislature.

Word quickly spread throughout Paris about this meeting. Thousands flocked to the house of reformer and astronomer Jean Sylvain Bailly who had agreed to host the meeting. The sheer size of the crowd that was gathering shocked the reformers who had not counted on such a gathering. The crowd clamoured and swelled as each man, woman and even child attempted to get their name, or at least their mark, on the petition. The authorities unsurprisingly quickly became aware and responded. A large force of soldiers, drawn primarily from the Bastille prison moved to disperse the crowd. As always happens in such situations things got out of hand. A few members of the crowd began throwing rocks and swearing at the soldiers. One officer ordered his men to fire into the air in an effort to quieten and disperse the crowd, a fateful decision. Believing they were being fired upon the crowd started to panic. Many began to flee while still more charged the soldiers. A pitch-battle ensued as the crowd forced the soldiers back and back until the garrison was forced to take shelter in the Bastille. Before the siege began the garrison managed to get a messenger out, who rode straight for Versailles to warn the king of the situation. The crowd meanwhile, effectively a leaderless mob, besieged the prison fortress.

The Siege of the Bastille:


The king wasted no time upon hearing of the uprising. He began mustering his own forces to crush the rebellion. The king’s forces reached Paris several days after the messenger arrived. By the time they arrived it was clear that Paris was in anarchy. The Bastille prison still stood, although the garrison was on its last legs, while elsewhere in the city the reformist leaders were trying to regain control over the mob while opponents of the rising battled in other parts of the city in the king’s name. What followed was a week of street fighting as the garrison, joined by the arrived soldiers and sympathisers gradually dismantled and defeated the rising. Many of the reformist leaders fled the city, though some including Bailly were captured and executed. The turmoil spawned by the rising was not however as the word of the revolt had spread like wildfire and across France small risings were taking place everywhere with peasants attacking any sign of authority they could see. The most tumultuous results however would appear when word of the Parisian Rising made it across the Atlantic, to New Orleans.

By 1790 New Orleans had emerged a haven for reformists and agitators. Unlike their fellow reformers in Paris those in Louisiana had the benefit of being far-removed for the centre of royal authority and thus were able to act with less fear of repercussion. In late 1789 a meeting of reforms, businessmen, merchants, philosophers and academics had drafted a letter to the king calling for numerous reforms as well as a desire for Louisiana to receive local autonomy in line with that given to the British dominions to their east. Above all however, the letter made clear that those who wrote it considered themselves loyal Frenchmen ad servants of King Louis XVI. This letter however never reached the king. The fate of the document has never been accurately determined, though the most accepted argument is that the ship carrying it was sunk, either by natural or other means. The lack of response however was seen as a direct snub by the reformers in New Orleans, and resentment continued to fester in the colony. When word of the Parisian Rising reached the city it was as a spark that lit up the city. Spontaneous rallies erupted across the colony in support of the rebels. In Bâton-Rouge a large mob seized control over much of the town.

In New Orleans a group of influential people attempted to emulate the actions of their Parisian counter-parts. They organised a meeting and attempted to write a letter to the governor, Louis Blaise d’Abbadie, calling on him to speak to the king on their behalf. He refused and called out the militia. This proved to be a mistake as the city turned against him almost to a man. The militia, those that answered the governor’s call, fled the city. The governor then tried to establish a presence in Bâton-Rouge but they were again forced out. A running battle ensued as rebel forces, angered by decades of neglect by the king, drove the loyalist forces northward. In the meantime in New Orleans the rebel’s leaders formed a council in the old city hall and attempted to gain some level of control over the situation. Word began to arrive of the set backs in France so the council decided they needed to act soon before the king was able to move against them in force, as they assumed he would. The council soon became dominated by three leading individuals. The first was the ageing but fiercely respected philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau[2], émigré scientist and radical Jean-Paul Marat and a local well-regarded and charismatic businessman known as Philippe Bardet[3]. Debate over the direction of the rebel movement lasted days but in the end the more radical faction le by Bardet and Marat triumphed and on the 14th of July 1791 they declared the independent Republic of Louisiana (République de Louisiane).

Jean-Paul Marat:


The Declaration of Independence (Déclaration d'Indépendance), when it was published was greeted by huge celebrations across the southern portion of the colony, that part that was in rebel hands. The council, now re-branded the National Assembly began trying to form a country and more critically an effective resistance. When word of the declaration reached St. Louis, currently occupied by the loyalist forces, a huge tide of citizens rallied around the idea of their new nation and attempted to drive the soldiers out of the town. The loyalist soldiers were eventually driven out, but not before they had killed nearly a hundred St. Louis citizens. When word of this reached New Orleans it was seized upon by the Assembly, soon pamphlets lamenting the “St. Louis Massacre” appeared all over southern Louisiana. The result was a frenzy. Royalist citizens were attacked and driven out of their homes, armed groups began forming in cities, many men travelled to New Orleans to enlist in the rebel army.

By 1792 all of southern and western Louisiana was in rebel hands. The governor had retreated with what forces remained under his command to Detroit, where he was marshalling some form of resistance, while a letter had been sent to the king pleading loyalty and requesting aid. Further north in Quebec however the situation was quite different. A small uprising has occurred in Montreal but it has failed to significantly materialise and was crushed. The people of French Canada it seemed were with the king, and troops were soon begin sent south to Detroit to prepare to retake the colonies. In France meanwhile the rebellion was dying, and it was dying fast. The rebel forces has slowly been driven back into the southwest. A lack of resources, belief and a sharp division between the radicals led by one Maximilien Robespierre and the more conservative forces led by by Jean Joseph Mounier plagued the rebellion. Robespierre and his supporters eventually won out. They tried to initiate a draft of the people under their control to counter the royalist army now bearing down upon them, this served only to further alienate those that supported them. In late 1792 the King passed a series of acts, known as the Crown Acts. The Parisian Rising and subsequent rebellion had awakened the king to his people’s desires and he had decided to act, many of the nobility seeing the events in France supported him, and those that didn’t remained quiet. The act granted numerous reforms, including the abolition of serfdom, though it did not provide for an elected legislature. The passing of the Crown Acts brought the King wide respect and applaud from the French people, in addition Louis XVI wisely decreed that all those in rebellion who stood down now would be a granted amnesty, except the movement’s leaders. The rebellion collapsed; the vast majority of people defected or simply gave up. A few radicals, including Robespierre, continued to fight on in the west. By 1793 however the rebellion was dead, Robespierre and the other leaders were executed via the torture technique of the breaking wheel, and the king meanwhile was able to turn his attentions to Louisiana.

Robespierre:


In Louisiana meanwhile the rebels had solidified their hold on the south and southwest. In March of 1792 they had passed the Declaration of Rights. In it was a list of basic principle human rights that the new republic would be based upon. In the Declaration was an abolishment of “slavery of all kinds” including serfdom. It also drew strongly from the works of Rousseau including his quote that “Free people, remember this maxim: we may acquire liberty, but it is never recovered if it is once lost.”[4] The preparing of the Louisianan Army received a massive boost when in May the HMS Triumph arrived in New Orleans carrying arms, supplies, cannon and British officers to help train the rebel forces. In August the Royalists moved south from their base at Detroit; they crossed the Mississippi north of St. Louis and met a hastily assembled rebel force at the Battle of Fort Orleans, a crushing Royalist victory. The Royalists then turned south towards St. Louis. The Royalist advance was slowed however by winter. In December with the Royalists nearing St. Louis a band of Louisianan hunters and rangers raided the Royalist camp, stealing weapons and setting alight ammunition stores. This victory, though small, did much to raise morale. In January however the siege of St. Louis had begun. Meanwhile a second Royalist army had advanced down the east bank towards the city of Crevecoeur, which fell in late December. They then turned southeast towards Ouiatenon. The National Assembly however had dispatched an army north under the command of General Charles Baptiste, a former French officer who had defected.

The new Louisianan Army fell upon the unsuspecting royalists outside the city and defeated them in a shock yet hard fought victory. The Louisianans then turned southwest to relieve St. Louis. The victory did much to raise spirits of the rebels and helped draw more men to the rebel banner, and a new force began to be assembled in the south. By now however the French had crushed the rebellion at home and dispatched a fleet carrying a force of 15,000 men to crush the Louisianans. The Battle of Ouiatenon however had convinced the powers that be in Westminster to support the rebellion, as an attempt to break French power in North America. In April Great Britain recognised the fledgling republic and declared war on France. The Dominion of New England enthusiastically followed suit a week later. The Dominion of Carolina too joined the war, though a bit more reserved as many of the leading members of the Charleston Parliament were uneasy about supporting a nation that opposed slavery. Nonetheless when Spain declared war on Britain and its allies, following a mixture of threats and promises by France, in May the Carolinans desire to seize Spanish Florida outweighed other reservations. The Louisianan Revolution had become a major European War, but much more fighting was yet to come.

A Map of French North America:


[1] Not OTL Louis XVI, but his father Louis
[2] His death by a haemorrhage did not occur in TTL
[3] Not an OTL person
[4] An OTL Quote

[SavoyTruffle]

Hah. Louisiana is TTL's USA, *Louis XVI is basically George III but ultimately redeeming himself, and Robespierre as a Patrick Henry analogue is awesome.

And cool perspective flip; A French colony gaining independence with the help of the British sounds quite fun.

And the Revolution spills over to Europe.

[AuroraBorealis]

okay,

maybe I've missed something...but hey...

the Reformist emigres emigrate to New Orleans...why?

a backwater out post of the French Empire whose only redeeming quality and value is its strategic position. Quality of life and comfort are going to be quite a comedown from France itself. Everything in the French colonies will be provincial,and quaint and very rustic by Parisian standards. N-O ranks behind even Trois Rivieres within the French colonies. I don' t see that changing significantly. All of the colonies will be thoroughly conservative in nature being dominated by the planter aristocracy...the seigneurs and the Church.

There are also the demographics of population settlement 6:1 N.F/Canada and the pay's d'en haut to Louisiane ( both upper and lower combined) in the latter almost all of that population is New Orleans and the Gulf coast and the Delta. Everywhere else in Louisiane and even beyond Montreal they were forts. With few exceptions there were no towns associated with these small garrisons, at best they were adjacent to or in proximity of a native village. (Ft. miami/Kekionga, Ft. Ouiatenon was near a Wea village, hence the name). The notable exceptions being for instance Fort Detroit and even smaller St. Louis. In the latter case its likely the garrison outnumbers the towns people or at least severely out classes them in terms of armaments. Upper Louisiane would share with new France a culture dominated by the Royalist garrisons, the church and the Seigneurial class, I can't see them joining the radical revolutionaries. As to them..they have the civilized tribes to deal with, the Choctaws, Chickasaws and Creeks who will not welcome this development. And the British what is that..okay i see the British motivation, but the Dominions...whats that. The ostensible reason for intervention being the Louisiane's independence...yet that is the only avenue for their expansion.... the sparsely settled lands of the Ohio valley and the lands of the Civilized tribes. The Natives are not happy. They have nothing to gain. Canada /New France and Acadia...far too many entrenched French Catholics now I would think..Natural increase alone will give them population getting on to 200K now if not better depending on immigration. At best, without substantial immigration the population in Louisiane can't be better than about 30,000. Louisiane's odds of victory... are very slim to none.

Oh and Spain, Spain may have been content to let Louis handle this themselves as long as it was an internal rebellion, But with the British intervention, their intervention to support France is now certain. The Death of the "Louisianan revolution" is a certainty. the Bourbon compact has more than sufficient colonial forces in the gulf possessions to crush the life out it. An independent Louisiana will become a de facto protectorate of Britain..which makes it a direct threat to the Spanish colonial possessions, something they will not countenance.

Who else can we expect to become involved, there is no clear reason for anyone else to do so. That will leave the RN alone against the combined naval forces of France and Spain which without the revolutionary purges will leave them with very effective leadership ( on a par with the RN), and barring a continental campaign of significance the financial resources to fully back a war at sea. and probably match the RN. Though they will probably have an edge in quality and training... Spain and France can probably eventually build and man more ships.

[SilverSwimmer]

How are the American Dominions relationship with Britian? Are there still rebel sympathizers? Because that may change Britians mind about supporting a republic in Louisiana. I think the last thing the British would want is a huge Francophone Republic bordering thier colonies which only had some bad times about 15 years ago.

That being said, I think the war will end in a British/ Louisiana victory, if small. Maybe British take Florida and give it to the Dominion of Columbia, while they get a few tidbits in Canada for helping out the Louisianians. (sp?)

[RyuDrago]

Yay to the Republic of Louisiana! ( And later to the Empire of Louisiana or North America, if also a little Corse emigrated here...)

[Vitruvius]

First of all I think its a very interesting turn of events, well forshadowed so it wasn't as surprising to me. Though AuroraBorealis does raise some points. I assume that NO and lower Louisiana have a greater population ITTL though outside of the city the population is probably dominated by the estates of the seigneurs. But you've set up the city itself as a liberal emigre haven which seems reasonable when you consider the emigres as going into a kind of self imposed exile. Nevertheless most of interior of the continent will be a fast wilderness with little more than small forts.

In the American Revolution the British had great difficulty sending troops overland from Montreal into New York, a much shorter distance than Quebec to New Orleans. Voyageurs and small parties with Canoes can traverse this terrain but an Army Corps would have a hard go of it. It seems much more likely that the French would send troops by sea, it probably take less time and be much more efficient. And if anything the distance is probably a good thing, insulating NO from a royalist Quebec. But overall the scenario seems plausible. And I like that Rousseau and Marat are there.

As for France its interesting that the liberals in Paris are looking to Austria and Russia rather than to America or Britain as a model. I'm curious about the people involved. Many of the OTL revolutionaries were brought to Paris as reps for the Estates General. Robespierre for example had a career in Arras and didn't come to Paris until he was elected as a representative (though obviously some butterflies still carried him to Paris ITTL). But with the majority of these people still out in the Province and many liberals and radicals having fled abroad to NO then the pool of people is rather shallow. There won't be much outside of the academic salon liberals like Condorcet. Indeed most of the them will be opportunists from the upper Bourgeoisie and petty nobility. Men who see a need for some reform but are only willing to pursue it if it profits them. I'm thinking of Mirabeau and Danton here (the latter is probably still going by D'Anton). So there aren't many people around to serve as a bridge to the masses. Hence the rebellion is crushed as you've outlined.

I'm curious about the Duc D'Orleans. What is his position? IOTL the Palais Royale in Paris was his property and he allowed it to become a place where the liberals and dissidents could congregate outside of the stranglehold of the state censors. This was the place where Desmoulins launched the march on the Bastille. If the Duc is more loyal/sympathetic/respectful of TTL Louis XVI then his protection of rabble rousers like Desmoulins is lost.

One minor note. Robespierre is unlikely to be beheaded. Until the revolution that punishment was reserved for the nobility. Part of the Guillotine was that it was 'democratic' everyone got the same punishment regardless of class or crime. So Robespierre is more likely to be quartered or broken on the wheel. A beheading, I believe, actually elevates his status in death.

So in conclusion a very reasonable outcome. I really like the idea of a Louisiana Republic and Royalist Quebec and the Paris rebellion seemed doomed to failure even if it may have produced martyrs for the next generation.

[SavoyTruffle]

Yeah, I am wondering if Philippe Egalité is satisfied with Louis XVI's actions, or decided to support the revolutionaries.

[AuroraBorealis]

And the North America map does not appear to match the world map...which is correct...


Demographics can't be undone unless the French are somehow tied down on the continent...They cannot be beat all it takes is one troop convoy getting through. The RN cannot be everywhere. And once the Dominions realize they get nothing they are going to most displeased their performance is going to be lack-lustre and unmotivated, with being involved in another foreign adventure of Britain's.

Troops would have to be transported by sea either from France or the Caribbean colonies, but lightly armed forces could be transported via the voyageur routes to upper Louisiana at least. And since the French do control the Great lakes even heavier forces could be transported by lake sailing vessels to the Chicago area and then make their way down the Illinois valley

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle

Hah. Louisiana is TTL's USA, *Louis XVI is basically George III but ultimately redeeming himself, and Robespierre as a Patrick Henry analogue is awesome.

And cool perspective flip; A French colony gaining independence with the help of the British sounds quite fun.

And the Revolution spills over to Europe.

Yeah its basically a combination of the French and American Revolutions. I think its good fun to play with history like that. The revolution doesn't so much as spill over to Europe, more Europe gets its own one.

Originally Posted by AuroraBorealis

okay,

maybe I've missed something...but hey...

the Reformist emigres emigrate to New Orleans...why?

a backwater out post of the French Empire whose only redeeming quality and value is its strategic position. Quality of life and comfort are going to be quite a comedown from France itself. Everything in the French colonies will be provincial,and quaint and very rustic by Parisian standards. N-O ranks behind even Trois Rivieres within the French colonies. I don' t see that changing significantly. All of the colonies will be thoroughly conservative in nature being dominated by the planter aristocracy...the seigneurs and the Church.

There are also the demographics of population settlement 6:1 N.F/Canada and the pay's d'en haut to Louisiane ( both upper and lower combined) in the latter almost all of that population is New Orleans and the Gulf coast and the Delta. Everywhere else in Louisiane and even beyond Montreal they were forts. With few exceptions there were no towns associated with these small garrisons, at best they were adjacent to or in proximity of a native village. (Ft. miami/Kekionga, Ft. Ouiatenon was near a Wea village, hence the name). The notable exceptions being for instance Fort Detroit and even smaller St. Louis. In the latter case its likely the garrison outnumbers the towns people or at least severely out classes them in terms of armaments. Upper Louisiane would share with new France a culture dominated by the Royalist garrisons, the church and the Seigneurial class, I can't see them joining the radical revolutionaries. As to them..they have the civilized tribes to deal with, the Choctaws, Chickasaws and Creeks who will not welcome this development. And the British what is that..okay i see the British motivation, but the Dominions...whats that. The ostensible reason for intervention being the Louisiane's independence...yet that is the only avenue for their expansion.... the sparsely settled lands of the Ohio valley and the lands of the Civilized tribes. The Natives are not happy. They have nothing to gain. Canada /New France and Acadia...far too many entrenched French Catholics now I would think..Natural increase alone will give them population getting on to 200K now if not better depending on immigration. At best, without substantial immigration the population in Louisiane can't be better than about 30,000. Louisiane's odds of victory... are very slim to none.

Oh and Spain, Spain may have been content to let Louis handle this themselves as long as it was an internal rebellion, But with the British intervention, their intervention to support France is now certain. The Death of the "Louisianan revolution" is a certainty. the Bourbon compact has more than sufficient colonial forces in the gulf possessions to crush the life out it. An independent Louisiana will become a de facto protectorate of Britain..which makes it a direct threat to the Spanish colonial possessions, something they will not countenance.

Who else can we expect to become involved, there is no clear reason for anyone else to do so. That will leave the RN alone against the combined naval forces of France and Spain which without the revolutionary purges will leave them with very effective leadership ( on a par with the RN), and barring a continental campaign of significance the financial resources to fully back a war at sea. and probably match the RN. Though they will probably have an edge in quality and training... Spain and France can probably eventually build and man more ships.

Originally Posted by AuroraBorealis

And the North America map does not appear to match the world map...which is correct...


Demographics can't be undone unless the French are somehow tied down on the continent...They cannot be beat all it takes is one troop convoy getting through. The RN cannot be everywhere. And once the Dominions realize they get nothing they are going to most displeased their performance is going to be lack-lustre and unmotivated, with being involved in another foreign adventure of Britain's.

Troops would have to be transported by sea either from France or the Caribbean colonies, but lightly armed forces could be transported via the voyageur routes to upper Louisiana at least. And since the French do control the Great lakes even heavier forces could be transported by lake sailing vessels to the Chicago area and then make their way down the Illinois valley

Well I think in some ways Vitruvius answered some of this already but I'll do my best to respond. New Orleans has grown to be the haven of the self-exiled liberals from France who were facing persecution and fear in their home country. New Orleans offers much more freedom and openess. It is also a larger city than it was in OTL and because of the large number of immigrants from France, the British Dominions and others Louisiana in general has a higher population. closer to 60-70,000.

Now you are right in saying that most of Louisiana will be sparsely populated and dominated by aristocrats and royalists. That is why the revolution is only concentrated in the south of the colony and along the Mississippi. Further north and further west there are too few people, and even fewer sympathisers, to mount a rebellion. The actions of the native tribes will be dealt with in the next update. They will at first not favour the development but the rebels and the British will eventually win them round with various promises and that will further hurt the Royalists.

The British motivation is clear, undermine French influence in North America and set up an allied state in Louisiana. The Dominions have different motives. Carolina, as discussed, is primarily concerned with seizing Spanish Florida, it doesn't care for the revolutionaries. New England on the other hand is more sympathetic to the Rebel cause. In addition, they have their eyes on the Ohio Valley, which they intend to seize from the French, as well hopefully remove the French threat from Quebec. On Quebec your right it is overwhelmingly royalist, which is why I stated the only small revolt there failed. Again you are correct in saying that Quebec could easily send troops southwest. But it is along way to go through hostile country and in addition New England and the British are much greater threats and Quebec's war effort will be focused in the north.

Now Spain. Spain obviously would join the French as you said. And if they could focus all their energies against the Louisianans your right they would win. However they won't be able to do such. Firstly the Carolinan threat to Florida will have to be taken into account. The Spanish will also be more concerned about Gibraltar and the Caribbean. Also a revolution so close to their colonies in New Spain will clearly have reprucssions.

The Royal Navy I agree would be fighting a losing battle against the Spanish and French down the line I agree. However, the Royal New England and Royal Carolinan Navies (though clearly both are very small) do balance it slightly. In addition the main point is like you said France could win if it could focus all its attentions on the revolution. But like you said New Orleans is not of massive importance to France, when things in Germany and Italy start to heat up very soon (and around this time) France will be forced to focus there, closer to home and overall more important. And I never said the revolution would be easy, or successful.

Oh and yeah the map is wrong its just so people can see what areas I'm talking about, the borders are wrong.

Originally Posted by SilverSwimmer

How are the American Dominions relationship with Britian? Are there still rebel sympathizers? Because that may change Britians mind about supporting a republic in Louisiana. I think the last thing the British would want is a huge Francophone Republic bordering thier colonies which only had some bad times about 15 years ago.

That being said, I think the war will end in a British/ Louisiana victory, if small. Maybe British take Florida and give it to the Dominion of Columbia, while they get a few tidbits in Canada for helping out the Louisianians. (sp?)

There are still rebel sympathisers in the Dominions, but its a tiny minority. Most emmigrated to Louisiana or the Caribbean. But your right that if Louisiana gains independence it will have impacts on the Dominions. If Britain and its allies do win your right it would not be an overwhelming victory.

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by RyuDrago

Yay to the Republic of Louisiana! ( And later to the Empire of Louisiana or North America, if also a little Corse emigrated here...)

Haha I toyed with the idea of having our little friend up there. But in TTL Corsica is part of Sardinia not France. And I couldn't devise a plausible scenario for him to end up in Louisiana. So instead Napoleone di Buonaparte is probably an artillery officer in the Sardinian army, which could be fun...

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

First of all I think its a very interesting turn of events, well forshadowed so it wasn't as surprising to me. Though AuroraBorealis does raise some points. I assume that NO and lower Louisiana have a greater population ITTL though outside of the city the population is probably dominated by the estates of the seigneurs. But you've set up the city itself as a liberal emigre haven which seems reasonable when you consider the emigres as going into a kind of self imposed exile. Nevertheless most of interior of the continent will be a fast wilderness with little more than small forts.

In the American Revolution the British had great difficulty sending troops overland from Montreal into New York, a much shorter distance than Quebec to New Orleans. Voyageurs and small parties with Canoes can traverse this terrain but an Army Corps would have a hard go of it. It seems much more likely that the French would send troops by sea, it probably take less time and be much more efficient. And if anything the distance is probably a good thing, insulating NO from a royalist Quebec. But overall the scenario seems plausible. And I like that Rousseau and Marat are there.

As for France its interesting that the liberals in Paris are looking to Austria and Russia rather than to America or Britain as a model. I'm curious about the people involved. Many of the OTL revolutionaries were brought to Paris as reps for the Estates General. Robespierre for example had a career in Arras and didn't come to Paris until he was elected as a representative (though obviously some butterflies still carried him to Paris ITTL). But with the majority of these people still out in the Province and many liberals and radicals having fled abroad to NO then the pool of people is rather shallow. There won't be much outside of the academic salon liberals like Condorcet. Indeed most of the them will be opportunists from the upper Bourgeoisie and petty nobility. Men who see a need for some reform but are only willing to pursue it if it profits them. I'm thinking of Mirabeau and Danton here (the latter is probably still going by D'Anton). So there aren't many people around to serve as a bridge to the masses. Hence the rebellion is crushed as you've outlined.

I'm curious about the Duc D'Orleans. What is his position? IOTL the Palais Royale in Paris was his property and he allowed it to become a place where the liberals and dissidents could congregate outside of the stranglehold of the state censors. This was the place where Desmoulins launched the march on the Bastille. If the Duc is more loyal/sympathetic/respectful of TTL Louis XVI then his protection of rabble rousers like Desmoulins is lost.

One minor note. Robespierre is unlikely to be beheaded. Until the revolution that punishment was reserved for the nobility. Part of the Guillotine was that it was 'democratic' everyone got the same punishment regardless of class or crime. So Robespierre is more likely to be quartered or broken on the wheel. A beheading, I believe, actually elevates his status in death.

So in conclusion a very reasonable outcome. I really like the idea of a Louisiana Republic and Royalist Quebec and the Paris rebellion seemed doomed to failure even if it may have produced martyrs for the next generation.

Thank you. If you see my response to Aurora you will see I address some of these issues hopefully. Yes I also believe that for France to move troops from Quebec down to New Orleans overland would be more difficult than inagined, its a very long way, through wilderness. So yes by sea would be their best bet for transport, which is of course carrying its own risks.

Indeed your correct. The revolutionary club in Paris was weaker and smaller than OTL. Many of the leading rebels didn't move there, didn't maintain those views this TTL or simply weren't even born. To use your examples of Mirabeau and Danton. Danton was not born and Mirabeau was not such a radical due to the general better state of France TTL.

The Duc D'Orleans is indeed more sympathetic to Louis XVI in TTL. He was one of the few nobles to support the king pre-1790 and then he led the movement to support the Crown Acts after the Rising. Yet another blow to this TTL revolutionaries.

Ah I didn't know that, I will edit the part about Robespierre's death to drawn and quatered, I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle

Yeah, I am wondering if Philippe Egalité is satisfied with Louis XVI's actions, or decided to support the revolutionaries.

See my response above. More pro-king, which will give him great influence in the future of France.

[RyuDrago]

Originally Posted by Direwolf22

Haha I toyed with the idea of having our little friend up there. But in TTL Corsica is part of Sardinia not France. And I couldn't devise a plausible scenario for him to end up in Louisiana. So instead Napoleone di Buonaparte is probably an artillery officer in the Sardinian army, which could be fun...

Indeed, it could open new inexpected theatres...

[Vitruvius]

Originally Posted by Direwolf22

Ah I didn't know that, I will edit the part about Robespierre's death to drawn and quatered, I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

Yes, its one of the more interesting aspects of the rational reform of France. Previous to the revolution beheading was reserved for the nobility because it was the most quick and painless but also costly. You needed a trained executioner to get it right, chop off the head in one blow. Which is why the office of Royal Executioner became such an important one, hereditary in fact in Sanson's family. With the skills passed down from father to son like master to apprentice.

The guillotine assured quick (relatively) painless death. It was cheap and easily operated so such punishment could be afforded to anyone. Previous to that most non-nobles suffered their fate on the breaking wheel. Having Robespierre endure the wheel would be ironic on several levels. It would seem to be the epitome of the ancien regime triumphing over the revolution.

[Direwolf22]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

Yes, its one of the more interesting aspects of the rational reform of France. Previous to the revolution beheading was reserved for the nobility because it was the most quick and painless but also costly. You needed a trained executioner to get it right, chop off the head in one blow. Which is why the office of Royal Executioner became such an important one, hereditary in fact in Sanson's family. With the skills passed down from father to son like master to apprentice.

The guillotine assured quick (relatively) painless death. It was cheap and easily operated so such punishment could be afforded to anyone. Previous to that most non-nobles suffered their fate on the breaking wheel. Having Robespierre endure the wheel would be ironic on several levels. It would seem to be the epitome of the ancien regime triumphing over the revolution.

I like this. The irony is just far too juicy to miss up. Edited the post.

[AuroraBorealis]

I only asked about the world map because the HBC traded for furs at the Bay, the Natives brought the furs to them there influence only extended directly to the shores of the Bay and the immediate vicinity of its forts on those shores. It was only with the advent of the NWC who took a leaf from the book of the voyageurs and went to the natives effectively attempting to cut the flow of furs to the bay from its hinterland, an action that forced the HBC to eventually act in a like manner. By then the damage was done however.

With the voyageur traditions continuing unabated, and given that they were already out to the North Saskatchewan by 1760 I can imagine that by 1790 they are well into the Athabaska basin by now and even over the Rockies in to the Fraser and Columbia river basins. If they haven't cut the HBC off from its supplies of furs and REDUCED THEIR ECONOMIC VIABILITY AND NO WAR HAS BEEN DECLARED, THERE MUST CERTAINLY BE A VERY HEATED RIVALRY RUNNING IN THE LANDS TO THE WEST.

[Direwolf22]

Just a quick update. A few months ago, after updating this timeline my computer broke taking with it all of the work I had done on this. Over the last month after finally getting some spare time I have increasingly been tempted to resume work on this. The fact that this thread has received nearly 4000 views since I update it leads me to believe that this timeline does and will still attract interest. And I have indeed done a bit of writing for it.

In short I will be resuming this timeline sometime in the next few days with another update continuing where I left off with the birth of the Age of Revolutions.

- Direwolf

[Direwolf22]

Looking at sometime this weekend for an update, once i re-familiarize myself with what i've said so far haha.

-Direwolf

[SavoyTruffle]

Well, looking forward to it!