AHC: Conservative Counterculture
- Thread starter DSS
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Not necessarily, as counterintuitive as it seems. Just look at how different Rightist movements around the world have tried to react to changes in culture they oppose.
WestVirginiaRebel
Banned
Re-elect Truman, a longer Korean War with opposition from the right, the rise of libertarianism with influences from Ayn Rand?
I think you'd have to get rid of the Red Scare first and have a much more socially liberal environment to start with.
I don't think being a conservative and being part of a counterculture are mutually exclusive as a counterculture by definition is a reaction to the establishment and these days it's the counterculture (or its descendants) who are in charge of things, isn't it?
I think you'd have to get rid of the Red Scare first and have a much more socially liberal environment to start with.
I don't think being a conservative and being part of a counterculture are mutually exclusive as a counterculture by definition is a reaction to the establishment and these days it's the counterculture (or its descendants) who are in charge of things, isn't it?
Orville_third
Banned
True...though they most definitely went to extremes. (For example, at one time while my parents attended there, maxiskirts were banned...solely because they were popular among the counterculture! Never mind that they couldn't be any more modest than the dress code...)
Solomaxwell6
Banned
Yuppies 20 years early? You could get a sort of Libertarian culture out of them. They'd be more vain and just looking out for their own economic interests + attempting to look stylish, but Yuppies in the early 80s are about the closest you'll get to a conservative counter-culture.
The thing is, as Ally said, it's difficult to get a real conservative counter culture. The people who would traditionally create a counter-culture are the same people are traditionally liberal. It's not impossible, but it's not really easy to get a real mass conservative counter-culture going either.
The thing is, as Ally said, it's difficult to get a real conservative counter culture. The people who would traditionally create a counter-culture are the same people are traditionally liberal. It's not impossible, but it's not really easy to get a real mass conservative counter-culture going either.
Ironically, I just thought of this same topic. The thing of the counterculture which always struck me is sometimes it could blend into elements of Conservatism. For example, Conservatives support smaller government, while the Counterculture is also weary of the establishment. If it weren't for the war on drugs and the occasional Nixonite wiretapping and civil liberty intruision, there's some common ground oddly.
Or do you mean suit and tie Conservatives? If so, during the 1960's, I believe there was a Conservative counterculture which fought against the welfare state and the New Deal Coalition which dominated the politics of the era.
Or do you mean suit and tie Conservatives? If so, during the 1960's, I believe there was a Conservative counterculture which fought against the welfare state and the New Deal Coalition which dominated the politics of the era.
Countercultures tend to be fairly extremes, any ways Religious Conservatives have always had there own counterculture, though at times it (like the hippies) over laps the mainculture
As blackangel pointed out, many Christians-of-a-certain-sort don't like the mainstream culture and want to build their own, with their own institutions.
(It isn't just limited to the home-schooling devotees, although they're a big part of it.)
(It isn't just limited to the home-schooling devotees, although they're a big part of it.)
The trouble is that most things that are considered counterculture are in fields such as arts, music and literature. In all those fields there is a thing called paying your dues. For every great guitarist on the radio there are a thousand playing in clubs and on street corners. Most painters and poets are not appreciated in their lifetimes if ever. Most authors work is out of print within five years of their deaths. The rub is that most conservatives are about getting recognition at the first instant and payment immediately, even if they get it the result is seldom worth looking at or hearing. There is a reason they tend to be hacks.
Also the encounters of creative types with the larger culture in the form of record executives, editors, legal departments and the like are legendary for screwing them over. This does not lend itself to conservatism. Most conservatives I've known will ridicule doing something for its own sake even if there is no reward.
Also most of the hardcore christianists that I have dealt with are not truly counter anything, just conformists within their own circle. Which is why christian music or literature is widely regarded as second rate outside the mega-church crowd. Think I'm wrong show me where any of them have crossed over beyond one hit wonder status.
Also the encounters of creative types with the larger culture in the form of record executives, editors, legal departments and the like are legendary for screwing them over. This does not lend itself to conservatism. Most conservatives I've known will ridicule doing something for its own sake even if there is no reward.
Also most of the hardcore christianists that I have dealt with are not truly counter anything, just conformists within their own circle. Which is why christian music or literature is widely regarded as second rate outside the mega-church crowd. Think I'm wrong show me where any of them have crossed over beyond one hit wonder status.
You're confusing counterculture with subculture. Parts of the right are certainly subcultures (arguably, the entire right wing has now become one). But counterculture means you're not just hiving off, you're doing so in opposition to the mainstream. Which would mean we'd probably need a much more left liberal U.S., which I think is realistically impossible with a POD as late as 1955.
Got a bit of a chip on your shoulder and a propensity for stereotypes?
Re: your last comment, just because something is unpopular doesn't make it bad. See your above comment about not being recognized in one's own lifetime.
Plus there is Katy Perry. She started out as a Christian artist (performing as "Katy Hudson," IIRC) and secularized.
And do you have any proof conservatives are any more prone to instant-gratification mentalities than liberals?
cumbria
Banned
If it is a Paeleo Conservative culture it could be a right wing hippy movement.
That believes in spiritualism and traditional European pagan values (which means opposition to liberal atheism), nature, preservation of the enviroment (which means opposition to immigration) etc like the Wandervogel in Germany.
That believes in spiritualism and traditional European pagan values (which means opposition to liberal atheism), nature, preservation of the enviroment (which means opposition to immigration) etc like the Wandervogel in Germany.
Maybe if Wallace becomes president instead of Truman:
The US continues to enjoy good relations with the Eastern Block and the 50s see large scale nationalisations and a more regelemented/centralized education system, maybe even early desegregation.
With "the esthablishment" beeing percived left the counterculture should move to the right.
Maybe protesting Americas deals with bloodyhanded communists and fearing that the goverment will take away their freedom through economic regulations.
And Eco-activism has no problems at all fitting with conservativism.
There are also enough right/conservative artists & thinkers that were somewhat into drugs & sex and could be icons of the counterculture:
Heinlein, Ernst Jünger, Hemingway, Hank Williams, ...
You might also want to take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandervogel
The US continues to enjoy good relations with the Eastern Block and the 50s see large scale nationalisations and a more regelemented/centralized education system, maybe even early desegregation.
With "the esthablishment" beeing percived left the counterculture should move to the right.
Maybe protesting Americas deals with bloodyhanded communists and fearing that the goverment will take away their freedom through economic regulations.
And Eco-activism has no problems at all fitting with conservativism.
There are also enough right/conservative artists & thinkers that were somewhat into drugs & sex and could be icons of the counterculture:
Heinlein, Ernst Jünger, Hemingway, Hank Williams, ...
You might also want to take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandervogel