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  #1  
Old December 15th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Ismail Ismail is offline
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WI Bulgaria joined the USSR?

"Until the accesion of the liberal reform Communist Mikhail Gorbachev to the leadership of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1985, Zhivkov was grovellingly obsequious towards each of the successive rulers of the Soviet Union, and Russians and Bulgarians began jokingly to refer to Bulgaria as the 'sixteenth republic' of the Soviet Union. What they did not know for sure was that on two occasions, once to Khrushchev and once to his successor Leonid Brezhnev, Zhivkov proposed in all seriousness that Bulgaria should formally join the Soviet Union." - The Balkans: A Post-Communist History (2007) p. 88.

"Since the early 1950s Bulgaria was beyond any doubt the closest Soviet satellite in Eastern Europe, and the Communist regime was perhaps the most stable in the region. The 'total integration with USSR' doctrine promoted by the ruling party elite reached an apogee in the discussions held in 1961-62 at the politburo level, considering possible political unification and Bulgaria's application to join the USSR." - The Roundtable Talks and the Breakdown of Communism (1996) p. 179.

"Although there as never any doubt concerning Zhivkov's loyalty to the Soviet Union, the suggestions made in the 1970s that Bulgaria join the USSR as another federal republic were dropped in the 1980s. In any case, Zhivkov was no enemy of Bulgarian nationalism, which he promoted strongly during the 1970s and after." - The Soviet Union and Eastern Europe (1986) p. 34.

So... what would be the effects? Assuming of course that Zhivkov and Co. managed to pull it off.
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  #2  
Old December 15th, 2010, 05:45 PM
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USSR loses a UN vote?
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  #3  
Old December 15th, 2010, 05:48 PM
black angel black angel is online now
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there is something between the two country you know

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Old December 15th, 2010, 05:49 PM
KingByng KingByng is offline
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The Turks are likely to get a little more anxious about the Soviets, what with the USSR now being so close to Istanbul and the Bosphorus. This could mean a greater US military presence in the country.
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  #5  
Old December 15th, 2010, 06:00 PM
MercZ MercZ is offline
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there is something between the two country you know

I don't think geographical continuity is all that necessary. We have examples of this in modern day where political units are not geographically linked. The United States is separated from Alaska because of Canada, and overseas holdings of various countries to this day still, and more before then. Russia still has the little enclave of Kaliningrad to this day and is separated from it.

So I don't think that would have been a factor to consider. I think they would have looked more into whether or not it would have been worth it to do so after the inevitable backlash and possible increase of NATO in Greece and/or Turkey.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:06 PM
black angel black angel is online now
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I don't think geographical continuity is all that necessary. We have examples of this in modern day where political units are not geographically linked. The United States is separated from Alaska because of Canada, and overseas holdings of various countries to this day still, and more before then. Russia still has the little enclave of Kaliningrad to this day and is separated from it.

So I don't think that would have been a factor to consider. I think they would have looked more into whether or not it would have been worth it to do so after the inevitable backlash and possible increase of NATO in Greece and/or Turkey.
non-continuity geography is rare you know, Kaliningrad is very small and all Russian, Alaska has a very small population, also if we're talking the two joining in the 1980s, meaning Romania is in play under Nicolae Ceauşescu, some how I doubt he'll love this idea.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:08 PM
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So the Moldavian SSR and the new Bulgarian SSR become somewhat bigger.

Romania under Nicolae Ceausescu became increasingly freakish and tyrannical despite being fawned over by the western press. Ceausescu came close to pushing the Soviets to depose him by force several times, due to his own crazy belligerence. So if Bulgaria joins the U.S.S.R, I expect Ceausescu to go apeshit.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:14 PM
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there is something between the two country you know
If Ceaucescu screams too loudly that can be fixed with a little piece of Dobrudja
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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Southpaw Southpaw is offline
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Aaa, Bulgaria. The country that put the date of its first monarchy next to the date of its socialist revolution in its flag.
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  #10  
Old December 15th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Midas Midas is offline
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This map also highlights a portion of the giant body of navigable water between Bulgaria, the Russian SFSR and the Ukranian SSR. I'm sure the Soviets could ensure passage through Romanian territorial waters as well as over land.

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there is something between the two country you know

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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:56 PM
Blackfox5 Blackfox5 is offline
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I suspect all it means is that Bulgaria SSR becomes independent again once the Soviet Union collapses. I don't see many long term effects of this.
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  #12  
Old December 15th, 2010, 07:01 PM
Dan1988 Dan1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black angel View Post
there is something between the two country you know
And when has that stopped Kaliningrad?
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Old December 15th, 2010, 07:07 PM
Ismail Ismail is offline
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I suspect all it means is that Bulgaria SSR becomes independent again once the Soviet Union collapses. I don't see many long term effects of this.
Well keep in mind that Zhivkov's policies towards the Turks in the 1980's probably wouldn't have occurred under the Soviets. Under the USSR Bulgaria would probably need to make way for an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic for the Turks.

Bulgaria would also have probably suffered economically in the 80's since it would have lacked trade with the West.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 07:09 PM
archaeogeek archaeogeek is offline
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Well keep in mind that Zhivkov's policies towards the Turks in the 1980's probably wouldn't have occurred under the Soviets. Under the USSR Bulgaria would probably need to make way for an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic for the Turks.
Not necessarily, for example there was no Gagauz ASSR in Ukraine.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 07:10 PM
Ismail Ismail is offline
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Not necessarily, for example there was no Gagauz ASSR in Ukraine.
True. Still, I doubt Zhivkov's assimilation campaign would have been introduced, or it would have at least been very much reduced in intensity.

Also an ASSR for Bulgarian Turks would have indeed been excessive. I was thinking more along the lines of an autonomous oblast.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Maur Maur is offline
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If Ceaucescu screams too loudly that can be fixed with a little piece of Dobrudja
Yeah, i mean, it's not like Romania needs a coast or anything
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  #17  
Old December 16th, 2010, 06:59 PM
Dathi THorfinnsson Dathi THorfinnsson is online now
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I think the biggest unlikelihood is on the Soviet side. They LIKED a buffer between them and enemy nations.
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  #18  
Old December 17th, 2010, 01:48 AM
Dan1988 Dan1988 is offline
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I think the biggest unlikelihood is on the Soviet side. They LIKED a buffer between them and enemy nations.
Hmm, with the 1967-1974 Greek military junta, they'd probably like something that could probably help them on their end. Probably something to consider.
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