Is there a POD that gives Switzerland sea access ?
- Thread starter ian_smith
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The Central Commission for Navigation on the Rhine proposes that the River Rhine (up to the Schaffhausen Falls) should be designated as international territory and legally part of the North Sea. This is ratified at the Convention of Mannheim in 1868.
Cheers,
Nigel.
In 1515 before the battle of Marignan, the Duke of Milan was de-facto a puppet ruler for the Swiss Cantons. And the city-state of Genoa was far from its splendor.
So you can find something there...
But a state where Lombardia and Liguria become swiss is not really a Switzerland but a Lombardia with mountains where lived german-speaking minorities....
Any chance of a Switzerland that incorporates Tyrol and cuts a corridor to the sea at Venice?
The only reasonable way is an internationalisation of the Rhine from Rotterdam to Basel (it is navigable, and used for transport).
Switzerland in any case has a merchant marine, since 1940.
All the other ideas look pretty asbish: one could even propose that Switzerland wins the wars against Burgundy in the 15th century, and annex it: even if it were possible, the outcome would nt be Switzerland anymore.
Tou know, there is a reason for which the Swiss have always been very much against adding new cantons.
Switzerland in any case has a merchant marine, since 1940.
All the other ideas look pretty asbish: one could even propose that Switzerland wins the wars against Burgundy in the 15th century, and annex it: even if it were possible, the outcome would nt be Switzerland anymore.
Tou know, there is a reason for which the Swiss have always been very much against adding new cantons.
Or maybe we can imagine at 16th or 17th a war between Swiss counties and Savoy where Savoy is totally crushed by swiss armies.
From there, Savoy, Piedmont and Nice's county could become helvetic.
So we would have nowadays a swiss Nice with a Swiss Riviera
!Tyrol is austrian and Venice is Venice, one of the big player of world in XV and XVI centuries...
This plan need to defeat two very big powers...
Switzerland victories against Burgundy were financed by Louis XI, the Spider King of France and the Swiss had allies as the Duchy of Lorraine.
Then Burgundy had a lot of french lands (Burgundy vassal of the Kingdom of France) and imperial lands (the Netherlands), so then Switzerland will have two powerful ennemies : Austria and the Empire and France...
Or maybe we can imagine at 16th or 17th a war between Swiss counties and Savoy where Savoy is totally crushed by swiss armies.
From there, Savoy, Piedmont and Nice's county could become helvetic.
So we would have nowadays a swiss Nice with a Swiss Riviera
France will not let some bearded mountaineers the possession of Savoy and Nice. So in the XVIIth century, it is impossible, with Henry IV, then Richelieu then Louis XIV... During the french religion wars, maybe but then the french King will have a golden opportunity to unite catholics and protestants against a common foe...
Some mountain republican scum in the eyes of every french noble...
No.
Just...no.
Ideas of the Swiss as some unstoppable force who could have conquered half of Europe had they the time and inclination are really, massively overdone and not realistic at all. The Swiss had no reason, desire nor ability to expand beyond their base of operations in the Swiss Alps and hold that land.
Valdemar II
Banned
The Swiss are unlikely to éxpand, but the I could some kind of Republic of Bern succed in reaching the coast with a lot of luck. Of course if Bern become so big, it will completely dominate the Swiss Confederation leading the other Cantons push for other states joining the Confederation as a counterweight.
What if Austria and/or Spain manage to control most of northern Italy, and France allows Grenoble to Monaco to go Swiss to serve as a barrier against invasion. Savoy wasn't originally French, so they might let the Swiss have it to keep it out of the hands of a hostile power.
Once ensconced in the lands, and holding all the passes, the Swiss keep holding the land?
Labelling the southern most canton(s) as Provençal speaking would keep the French cantons from gaining quite as much power, and might (not likely, but might) allow the German ones to permit the expansion...
Once ensconced in the lands, and holding all the passes, the Swiss keep holding the land?
Labelling the southern most canton(s) as Provençal speaking would keep the French cantons from gaining quite as much power, and might (not likely, but might) allow the German ones to permit the expansion...
France didn't fear Austria or Spain, they were competing for european dominance during 200 years until a Bourbon dynasty become the ruler dynasty of Spain...
And Savoy was the buffer state, you just described, a state dominated by a french dynasty with its capital on the west slope of the Alps in Chambery until the middle of the XVIth century when the capital was transferred to Turin because french influence was to heavy...
Or to weaken Spain/Austria...
If France can't have Milan and Lombardia, it can accepted the Swiss to have it instead of Spain...
So you have France having influence on Savoy and Piedmont, and Swiss having Lombardia and Genoa, if Venice can be in the alliance, you have a strong northern Italy against spanish influence in the south (Kingdom of Naples) or in Rome...
Or someting else Savoy and the Swiss allied dividing northwestern Italy between them and a small access to Med by the Swiss near Genoa...
1921.
Mandate over Fiume (today's Rjieka).
Frech&USA did not suffer Fiume to be italian, and citizens did not suffer it to be jugoslavian.
"free city"-status is not stable enough.
The mess D'annunzio made in 1921 makes things even worse
thus a little addendaum is made at Versailles/Trianon granting it as a protectorate to a neutral power "just for some times"
Mandate over Fiume (today's Rjieka).
Frech&USA did not suffer Fiume to be italian, and citizens did not suffer it to be jugoslavian.
"free city"-status is not stable enough.
The mess D'annunzio made in 1921 makes things even worse
thus a little addendaum is made at Versailles/Trianon granting it as a protectorate to a neutral power "just for some times"
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If this were to happen - which it wouldn't for the following reason - then all neighbouring states would believe it to be so much the farce that it would be that they would start pushing their luck immediately. If the city didn't try to vote itself immediately out of the Swiss orbit - after all, what can the Swiss do? Glare menacingly across the entire breadth of Italy? - then you can be sure that Austria, Italy or some such would rapidly try to arrange a plebiscite having Fiume annexed to themselves. Ideas of the Swiss being given a mandate are insane.
To put it simply: no the Swiss could never have a coastline.