Pleas send all your ideas about Polish alternate history (timelines, flags, emblems, maps)
Poland AH
- Thread starter follow_by_white_rabbit
- Start date
The Flag of the Kingdom of Poland (in Personal Union with the Russian Empire, autonomy resotred following Russian Revolution)
Coat of Arms:
The POD is that a White force wins the Russian Revolution, and manages to bring all of the former Russian Empire under it's control, and later restores the Romanovs as figureheads. Poland and Finland havs substantial autonomy.
Coat of Arms:
The POD is that a White force wins the Russian Revolution, and manages to bring all of the former Russian Empire under it's control, and later restores the Romanovs as figureheads. Poland and Finland havs substantial autonomy.
Leo Caesius
Banned
What happened to Molobo? Has he finally left the board?Susano said:*bids lips*... cant... resist...
in memory of of Molobo: Flags of the polish territory
From author
Cheak this out, in My AH Poland was still rule by the Jagiellons (Anna of Jagiellon became quine Anna I Jagiellon), nobels democracy never existed repelced by English-like democracy system. Today we have strong Poland with some colonies, and terythory from Oder (Odra) to Diepr and from Riga coast to Crim coast. The falg is more like *here* but emblem (coat of arms) is change.
Timeline and more in near future
Cheak this out, in My AH Poland was still rule by the Jagiellons (Anna of Jagiellon became quine Anna I Jagiellon), nobels democracy never existed repelced by English-like democracy system. Today we have strong Poland with some colonies, and terythory from Oder (Odra) to Diepr and from Riga coast to Crim coast. The falg is more like *here* but emblem (coat of arms) is change.
Timeline and more in near future
Leo Caesius
Banned
He is the board's chief authority on Poland, which is a nation that has often fascinated me. There are tons of Poles in my field - including a number of great Polish Assyriologists and Egyptologists. Unfortunately, he's as abrasive as gravel (not that I should be one to complain).Paul Spring said:Who's molobo?
In any case, I welcome any opportunity to learn more about Poland, and so I welcome white_rabbit to the board.
Molobo
Banned
They are two good POD when posting about Poland
First is the Prussian Tribute and reforms of Poland-If Poles would just bring Prussia into the commonwealth the entire history of the world would look different.Without Prussia there wouldn't be a strong militaristic Germany probably.And with Commonwealth able to create a strong multiethnic state with democratic values, it could have an enourmous influence on Europe.
The second POD that is nice would be the dominance of Pilsudski after WWI. If he would be chief negotiator in Riga during the talks with bolsheviks it is likely that there would be both Ukrainian and Belarus states in Miedzymorze Confedaration, weakening the USSR and leading to possible war with in 1930s when Ukrainians try to save their countrymen in Soviet territory.The result would be interesting. Especially if Sikorski proofs at that time his ideas about furure warfare are right.
Recently I read also a nice AH article which shows the consequences of Churchill using the plan to invade Balkans :
http://members.aol.com/dalecoz/WW2_0398.htm
It has a good deal of Poles in it.
There is another one :
http://members.aol.com/dalecoz/WW2_0298.htm
But I don't think its too realistic.
First is the Prussian Tribute and reforms of Poland-If Poles would just bring Prussia into the commonwealth the entire history of the world would look different.Without Prussia there wouldn't be a strong militaristic Germany probably.And with Commonwealth able to create a strong multiethnic state with democratic values, it could have an enourmous influence on Europe.
The second POD that is nice would be the dominance of Pilsudski after WWI. If he would be chief negotiator in Riga during the talks with bolsheviks it is likely that there would be both Ukrainian and Belarus states in Miedzymorze Confedaration, weakening the USSR and leading to possible war with in 1930s when Ukrainians try to save their countrymen in Soviet territory.The result would be interesting. Especially if Sikorski proofs at that time his ideas about furure warfare are right.
Recently I read also a nice AH article which shows the consequences of Churchill using the plan to invade Balkans :
http://members.aol.com/dalecoz/WW2_0398.htm
It has a good deal of Poles in it.
There is another one :
http://members.aol.com/dalecoz/WW2_0298.htm
But I don't think its too realistic.
A couple of warm historic moments between Poles and Germans come to my mind Susano :
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Susano
Banned
The last picture is funny. Polska_Flag_Berlin? Heh. The Polnes certainly didnt come to there on their own. Rather, the Polnish Army lost pathetically in weeks, and the Polnish Resistance continued to not reach its mission of polish liberation - THAT was only managed by your behated Sovjets. So, be thankful to them, damnit!
THEY reached Berlin. Not the Polnes.
So, I THINK that much better illustrates things:
THEY reached Berlin. Not the Polnes.
So, I THINK that much better illustrates things:
Molobo
Banned
Susano-it's Polish, Poles etc.
The rest doesn't really matter.Germany lost and Poles were saved from mass murder and gass chambers.Like or not Poles took part in the fight.That btw liberated you from a pretty vile regime.
The rest doesn't really matter.Germany lost and Poles were saved from mass murder and gass chambers.Like or not Poles took part in the fight.That btw liberated you from a pretty vile regime.
Actually that is just a myth.Poles did inflict some considrable losses on Luftwaffe for example, also the breaking of Enigma did help the allied war effort.
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Poland in 1939 actually did quite well considering that it was basically what we would call a 3rd world country up against one of the world's foremost industrial powers. They were badly outnumbered and outgunned, their allies didn't give any effective aid, their enemies could afford to build and use more and better equipment and use new tactics while they could not, they had another massive nation on the other side who invaded them when they were already retreating - there were so many disadvantages. They fought as well as any nation's military in such a situation could have.
Susano
Banned
Which at that timeof course was not part of Germany... and whose sucessors later took part ins plitting that unruly, as paul said it, 3rd-world-country.
Paul - THAT certainly is a myth, too. They COULD have done better. If tehy could have won is another question, but they had a horrible command situation, and placing their HQ in some village with transport problems reaching it surely didnt help, either.
Molobo - Does it matter? In the end, they lost... Germany did, too, yes, but Poland didnt win. The 4 allied powers did (and, of all partisans and resitancemovemnts, Id only give Titois serious credit). Rather it means it lost to the losers
Molobo
Banned
Seems you have some complex towards Poland.Oh maybe its all those lost wars.
Those Poles sure don't look like they lost :
http://forum.axishistory.com/files/s_1939.jpg
Poland was part of the Allies and in the end it won despite heavy losses.Tommorow for example I am going to party in our beautifull polish city of Wroclaw, you may remember it as Breslau.
If Germany won I would be ash in the clouds.In the end, Germany is the loser of WWII-the eternal burden of Holocaust that rests on its image being just one example.But Its nice that now most Germans are peacefull proud Europeans of today paying for Polands development in EU.
So I guess it all went well.And that I think may end our little off topic chat.
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Susano
Banned
Well, too bad that for partying in Vilnius etc you need to cross borders... if we go by territory, you see, then Poland also lost in size, so, yeah, I think you shot shoot in your own goal there.
And claiming you by being part of the allies? Oh-ho, werent your oh so belovbed sovjets part of that, too? Well it does show of cowardice when you hide behind the Big 4 say and then say "we won, too". Actually, thats a kinda funny metaphoricla image, I CAN see Poland as the meager dwarf running around the real important countries, heh (and the only time Poland was important was when it usurped Lithuania of all states, which before had "doen all the work" by conqueirng teh russian principalities)...
And what lost wars? For the first third of its history Poland was a vasall to Germany, so, heh, I think your getting you rnationalities mixed up.
And claiming you by being part of the allies? Oh-ho, werent your oh so belovbed sovjets part of that, too? Well it does show of cowardice when you hide behind the Big 4 say and then say "we won, too". Actually, thats a kinda funny metaphoricla image, I CAN see Poland as the meager dwarf running around the real important countries, heh (and the only time Poland was important was when it usurped Lithuania of all states, which before had "doen all the work" by conqueirng teh russian principalities)...
And what lost wars? For the first third of its history Poland was a vasall to Germany, so, heh, I think your getting you rnationalities mixed up.
Molobo
Banned
Susano not only are you hijacking the thread but being ignorant.
As to being a vasall of Germany you must have confused it with some AH.
Poland never was a vasall to an German state.
If you have any other question you can ask them in Chat.
Relations between our Ukrainian and Lithuanian friends are excellent I must say and I have nothing against their possesion of Vilnius or Lvov.A couple of days ago there was joint mass of 100.000 Poles and Ukrainians in Lvov btw.
Boy do you have a Polish complex written all over you...
Hmm...the only time Poland was part of Germany was when Wielkopolska was taken by Prussia.That didn't last long though. About 72 years IIRC.
As to being a vasall of Germany you must have confused it with some AH.
Poland never was a vasall to an German state.
If you have any other question you can ask them in Chat.
Susano
Banned
Poland, as Hungary, was in the Middle Ages vasall to the crown of the "Roman Empire", which happened to also be the corwn of the German kingdom, too, with indeed Germany as strogest and dominating part in that "Empire".
I could point out that relations are, for the most part,e xcellent at the Oder, too. But, well, thats a Red Hering. You began to measure victroy at Territory, and in that regards Poland LOST in WW2.
I could point out that relations are, for the most part,e xcellent at the Oder, too. But, well, thats a Red Hering. You began to measure victroy at Territory, and in that regards Poland LOST in WW2.