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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:10 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Two Lucky Princes: A TL

So this is my first attempt at a TL, and this one asks, "what if two princes had been luckier and survived into adulthood ?"

Thanks to DrakeRlugia's "The Prince of Peace" for giving me an inspiration; as for the other prince, just wait and see...

The Unifier: A Biography of the First King of Iberia


Miguel I of the Avis-Trastamara dynasty, was born to Manuel I of Portugal and Isabella, Princess of Asturias, the firstborn daughter of Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon. Although Isabella first married to Afonso, the Crown Prince of Portugal, he died in 1491, and she very nearly entered a convent. She was later wed to Manuel, and gave birth to Miguel, though dying in childbirth.[1]

Miguel was a child destined for greatness from birth; he was seen as the hope to unite most of Iberia under a single crown[2]. He became ill at the age of 2, however, he luckily survived[3]. Had he died, the succession of Castile and Aragon would pass to his aunt Juana, who married the Habsburg Philip of Burgundy; this still meant that as long as Miguel had no heirs of his own the Habsburgs were still high on the line of succession.

Fortunately, Miguel was an astute child, performing well in his studies. As his grandmother Isabella died in 1504, he drew closer to his destiny...

[1]This is all OTL.
[2]Spain and Portugal were united from 1580-1640, but under the Spanish Habsburgs.
[3]The POD, he dies in childhood in OTL but survives here.


So, thoughts?
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:15 AM
Cuāuhtemōc Cuāuhtemōc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle View Post
So this is my first attempt at a TL, and this one asks, "what if two princes had been luckier and survived into adulthood ?"

Thanks to DrakeRlugia's "The Prince of Peace" for giving me an inspiration; as for the other prince, just wait and see...

The Unifier: A Biography of the First King of Iberia

Miguel I of the Avis-Trastamara dynasty, was born to Manuel I of Portugal and Isabella, Princess of Asturias, the firstborn daughter of Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon. Although Isabella first married to Afonso, the Crown Prince of Portugal, he died in 1491, and she very nearly entered a convent. She was later wed to Manuel, and gave birth to Miguel, though dying in childbirth.[1]

Miguel was a child destined for greatness from birth; he was seen as the hope to unite most of Iberia under a single crown[2]. He became ill at the age of 2, however, he luckily survived[3]. Had he died, the succession of Castile and Aragon would pass to his aunt Juana, who married the Habsburg Philip of Burgundy; this still meant that as long as Miguel had no heirs of his own the Habsburgs were still high on the line of succession.

Fortunately, Miguel was an astute child, performing well in his studies. As his grandmother Isabella died in 1504, he drew closer to his destiny...

[1]This is all OTL.
[2]Spain and Portugal were united from 1580-1640, but under the Spanish Habsburgs.
[3]The POD, he dies in childhood in OTL but survives here.

So, thoughts?
Oh yes! Avis-Trastamaras are going to dominate!
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:15 AM
Monopolist Monopolist is offline
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Hooked, waiting for more - great way to begin!
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:33 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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The Other Prince...

The Rebirth Of Camelot


It is not surprising that one of England's greatest kings was to be named after a legendary king of England, despite a rather short reign. Arthur I[1] was to keep the Anglo-Spanish alliance his father Henry VII envisioned to keep France in check, supported the innovations of the Cistercian monks (yet England's relations with the Pope were quite cool, regardless), kept England faithful in the midst of the Reformation...

Arthur was the firstborn son of Henry VII, the Tudor who ascended to the throne after his victory over Richard III at Bosworth Field. Henry was a very efficient reformer; he refilled the treasury after the profligacy of Edward IV's wife, and to this day Archbishop John Morton's tax collection method is used to denote a situation where neither choice is advantageous[2]. Henry was also an astute diplomat, marrying Arthur to Ferdinand and Isabella's youngest daughter Catherine, betrothing his daughter Margaret to James IV of Scotland (ultimately trying to undermine the Auld Alliance), and allying with the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I.

As the sweating sickness epidemic of 1502 ravaged England, Arthur was lucky enough not to catch it[3]. Thus, upon his father's death in 1509, he ascended to the throne, with all hopes of the nation upon him...

[1]He's the first "real" king with this name, as the legendary king isn't included in the reckoning.
[2]Morton's Fork.
[3]I suspect butterflies from Miguel surviving would cause Arthur to be lucky enough to survive for even a bit longer - after all, his OTL nephew Edward VI died young too.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:35 AM
Cuāuhtemōc Cuāuhtemōc is offline
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Double points for England finally having a future Arthur down the road.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:27 AM
CaptainAmerica CaptainAmerica is offline
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I am hooked! Spain free from the Habsburgs and England has a King Arthur
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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:53 AM
Emperor-of-New-Zealand Emperor-of-New-Zealand is online now
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This is looking very interesting. This period usually isn't my interest, but I like this. Watching carefully
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Old November 1st, 2010, 09:13 AM
Yorel Yorel is offline
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That could be interesting... A unified Iberia under a Portuguese King and a scenario where Arthur Tudor becomes king of England, thus leaving Henry VIII out of the picture.

With this, we thus have :
-Philip the Handsome not going to Castille. He thus might not get the fever he died from while being there. This means he is likely to be candidate to the Holy Roman Empire after his father, Maximilian I, dies.
-The Hapsburg won't be as powerful as they were since they won't have Spain. However, they will still have Austria and the Netherlands. They will also probably still get Hungary if everything goes OTL.
-Henry VIII will follow an ecclesiastical career. Given his love for theology, he could rise up high in the Church hierarchy, but I don't see him becoming Pope. Cardinal at best, but not Pope.

I will be watching how this goes
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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:43 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
I am hooked! Spain free from the Habsburgs and England has a King Arthur
Indeed, as much as I find Charles V and Philip II pretty cool guys the funky genetics they had really meant their successors weren't up to scratch.

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That could be interesting... A unified Iberia under a Portuguese King and a scenario where Arthur Tudor becomes king of England, thus leaving Henry VIII out of the picture.

With this, we thus have :
-Philip the Handsome not going to Castille. He thus might not get the fever he died from while being there. This means he is likely to be candidate to the Holy Roman Empire after his father, Maximilian I, dies.
-The Hapsburg won't be as powerful as they were since they won't have Spain. However, they will still have Austria and the Netherlands. They will also probably still get Hungary if everything goes OTL.
-Henry VIII will follow an ecclesiastical career. Given his love for theology, he could rise up high in the Church hierarchy, but I don't see him becoming Pope. Cardinal at best, but not Pope.

I will be watching how this goes
So we could have Philip as Holy Roman Emperor; but since his son Charles was born roughly around the POD the butterflies won't affect him either. This also means that Ferdinand II isn't likely to become Emperor. And while the Habsburgs don't have Spanish gold, they do have the rich provinces of the Netherlands regardless (and are still staring at the Ottomans down south).

And an English Cardinal Henry 200+ years ahead of schedule, interesting, interesting...
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Old November 1st, 2010, 12:35 PM
Yorel Yorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle
So we could have Philip as Holy Roman Emperor
That's a possibility. Still, he will have to face Francis I of France (unless he's also been butterflied away of course) who also wanted to be Holy Roman Emperor. The competition between Francis I and the Hapsburg might be fiercer than it was OTL.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:12 PM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Nah, Francis I will still be king of France, since I still don't think Louis XII would have a son.
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Last edited by SavoyTruffle; November 1st, 2010 at 01:20 PM.. Reason: wrong king
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:38 PM
yourworstnightmare yourworstnightmare is offline
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Hmm, curious about France indeed. If things go as OTL we'll probably see Francis, but on the other hand we've already seen butterflies affecting England.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:41 PM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Oh, but I have something more... interesting (in the Chinese sense, that is) coming up.

Hint: The Franco-Habsburg rivalry will still be here.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:52 PM
The Space Viking The Space Viking is offline
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I like it already, can't wait for the next update. I'm subscribed .
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:53 PM
Faeelin Faeelin is offline
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Of course, one wonders if the HRE will end up going entirely Protestant in the ATL. Hrmm.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:56 PM
yourworstnightmare yourworstnightmare is offline
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Protestant Habsburgs would be awesome!!!
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:57 PM
Cuāuhtemōc Cuāuhtemōc is offline
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Protestant Hapsburgs? It would make a lot of sense since the Popes were so pro-French, it even led to Charles V's army sacking Rome.

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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:33 PM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Originally Posted by Faeelin View Post
Of course, one wonders if the HRE will end up going entirely Protestant in the ATL. Hrmm.
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Protestant Hapsburgs? It would make a lot of sense since the Popes were so pro-French, it even led to Charles V's army sacking Rome.

The Inheritance of Miguel I


Isabella I of Castile died in 1504, and the young Miguel inherited the Spanish throne, with a struggle over the regency. The Castilian nobles disliked Isabella's widower and Miguel's grandfather, King Ferdinand, yet Juana, the eldest surviving child of Isabella and Ferdinand, was married to Philip I, Holy Roman Emperor[1]. A party no one expected came to the fore, however: Miguel's father Manuel I was yet another viable choice, yet this would effectively put the much larger Spanish kingdom under Portugal.

It is possible war could have broken out, but cooler heads prevailed; the Compromise of Burgos gave Ferdinand precedence in the regency. This was however a temporary solution, as it failed to designate who would follow Ferdinand in the event of his death while Miguel was in his minority. It would not come to this, however, as the young Miguel reigned in his own right in Castile by 1513, and the nobles of Aragon swore fealty to him as King of Aragon upon his grandfather's death in 1516.

For now Spain was stable. Yet as long as he had no heirs of his own yet, the succession would pass to his aunt Juana, who had issue of her own. Speculative historians wonder about the event of Juana becoming Queen of Spain, with her children (likely her eldest son Charles, who succeeded his father as Holy Roman Emperor) possibly ruling over Spain and southern Italy in addition to the Netherlands and Austria, and claiming the title of Holy Roman Emperor[2]. Now, the young king would look for a wife...

[1]The fall from a horse which didn't kill Maximilian I but left him in great pain kills him earlier, and since Philip doesn't go to Spain and contracts typhoid he'd be good for at least two more decades.
[2]Which is what happened OTL - accidents of succession really can seem ASB-ish.


Now, I ask of you readers:

1) How plausible are the Habsburgs becoming Protestant?
2) Who would be a good candidate for Miguel's consort?
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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:42 PM
Cuāuhtemōc Cuāuhtemōc is offline
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[1] It all depends on how the Papacy treats the Hapsburgs. In OTL, they weren't too fond of Hapsburg ambitions in Italy and thus sided with France during the 1500s. Nevertheless the Hapsburgs remained strongly Catholic. It's kinda unlikely but not ASB for the Hapsburgs to adopt a pro-Protestant policy.

[2] I honestly have no idea.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:58 PM
Yorel Yorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle
2) Who would be a good candidate for Miguel's consort?
A Hapsburg princess could become Miguel's consort Queen to strengthen the ties between the Iberians and the Hapsburgs.
Other than that, I could see a French princess since the House of Aviz is a bastard line of the previous Royal House of Portugal, the House of Burgundy, whom itself is a branch of the Capetians (descendants of Robert II of France). Thus Miguel I of Iberia and Francis I of France are long distant cousins. A French marriage could also be arranged for a political deal.
An English princess could also be an interesting and plausible scenario... Maybe a daughter of Arthur Tudor and Catherine of Aragon?
After that, I think we would need to look for an Italian princess. But one of the three options I stated before would seem more logical.
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