Kiwi Lennon and the Aborted Beatles

In July of 1946, 5-year old John Lennon was taken by his father Alf to Blackpool for what was supposedly a 'long vacation'. In reality Alf intended to emigrate to New Zealand and take John along with him.

This plan was thwarted by John's mother who had followed them to Blackpool and succeeded in confronting Alf. Following a protracted argument between the two, John was forced to choose between going with his father or staying with his mother.

He chose his father. Twice.

But when his mother began to walk away, the little boy started crying and ran after her. He stayed in Liverpool and formed a quite successful rock n' roll band. The rest is history.

But since we all love messing about with history, let us suppose an alternative. Just as John is about to start bawling his eyes out, his father takes him firmly by the arm and pulls him off in the opposite direction. By the time autumn rolls around the two have arrived in New Zealand.

How does history unfold from here?

Alberto Knox said:

In July of 1946, 5-year old John Lennon was taken by his father Alf to Blackpool for what was supposedly a 'long vacation'. In reality Alf intended to emigrate to New Zealand and take John along with him.

This plan was thwarted by John's mother who had followed them to Blackpool and succeeded in confronting Alf. Following a protracted argument between the two, John was forced to choose between going with his father or staying with his mother.

He chose his father. Twice.

But when his mother began to walk away, the little boy started crying and ran after her. He stayed in Liverpool and formed a quite successful rock n' roll band. The rest is history.

But since we all love messing about with history, let us suppose an alternative. Just as John is about to start bawling his eyes out, his father takes him firmly by the arm and pulls him off in the opposite direction. By the time autumn rolls around the two have arrived in New Zealand.

How does history unfold from here?

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That's a great WI.

I think Paul McCartney would probably have his own band, rather then join any established band.. Although of all the English bands of the 60s, I can see him fitting in best with the style of The Hollies.

George and Ringo are harder to place.. George never really came into his own as a songwriter until later in the 1960s, so he might strike some fame as a singer-songwriter then.

Ringo could get a spot in just about any uk invasion band, but after the fame dies down, there's not much of a future apart from the oldies circuit.

but back to John. It depends on where they settle, the best case scenario would be for him to grow up in the Hutt Valley and join the Fourmyula. They were one of the few nz bands to write most of their own songs, and even made a semi- concept album about going on a driving holiday around New Zealand (called "Green B Holiday")

In the 1970s, after a spell as a singer songwriter (and some embarrassing appearances on tv variety shows, ala Ray Columbus) John Lennon is bitten by the bug that is Punk Rock, and plays a few shows in Auckland.. Doing sped-up versions of his old tunes.

There he meets a young singer called Chris Knox, who is in Auckland playing some gigs with his band The Enemy. A friendship is forged that lasts to this day.

Lennon records some demos for The Enemy, but they are rejected by every record company, and the band breaks up. Knox then forms A new band called Toy Love, with a slightly more pop sound.. They get signed and Lennon produces 2 albums with them.

(in otl, the enemy never get to record any proper demos, and Toy Love break up after the first album)

shall I continue....? I have some ideas on how Flying Nun records could turn out from here.....

Edit: as an aside, John COULD have been a part of BLERTA in the 70s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blerta

Interesting. And in a parallel universe, the British government begins to deport all rock & roll and other non-British arts artists to New Zealand.

What a great topic! This deserves a timeline.

...carrying on from my sketch of a timeline...

By 1981, the band Toy Love break up - frustrated at the lack of success they meet while touring Australia. Their two Lennon-produced albums (1978' "Toy Love" and 1980's "Green Walls" - Featuring 3 Lennon-penned originals) still feature in many all-time best ever Kiwi album lists.

"If only we'd gone to England like Split Enz did", lead singer Chris Knox would say in later years "They might have understood what we were trying to do."

After Toy Love broke up Lennon, Knox, and Toy Love guitarist Alec Bathgate continued to make home recordings using a 4-track that Knox had bought with some money earned from Toy Love.

Lennon: "We didn't know what we were going to do, so we just kept making music y'know?"...

I think I just might take on this idea. My father and grandfather were both born in New Zealand. I just might wank my family into this

I think butterflies could have a radical effect. This goes into my "Hitler the Irate Baker" trope I bring up every time someone asks if Person X was from country X; you completely change the person by moving them.

Lennon would perhaps continue to be creative, but there's multiple outlets for that creativity. Granted, his father being a musician could point him in the direction of music still.

Back in Liverpool, the other Beatles could flounder as many music groups from the city never made it any where, if the others even get into it to begin with.

If Lennon is raised by his father rather than Aunt Mimi, you've completely altered the class Lennon was raised in, which means that John likely won't be the "John Lennon" we know. A few biographers have argued that Lennon's father was lower class while the Stanley's where upperlowerclass and Mimi raised John to be middle class. Also it was under Mimi's guardianship that Lennon was provided with all those literary influences that drove his work. However, Lennon's attention grabbing behavior and natural wit are probably still there, he just doesn't end up the brilliant lyricist that he was. Alfred Lennon wanted to be an actor, and he compensated by acting "showy" while he worked as a cook on various ships. Under Alfred's influence I think it's entirely possible that Lennon ends up being an actor in New Zealand, or even a comedian rather than a singer/songwriter. Indeed even having grown up in England, I think Lennon was less likely to end up in music than Paul McCartney was. In short he'd be more like Alfred Lennon, and a whole lot less like the John Lennon we know.

Emperor Norton I said:

I think butterflies could have a radical effect. This goes into my "Hitler the Irate Baker" trope I bring up every time someone asks if Person X was from country X; you completely change the person by moving them.

Lennon would perhaps continue to be creative, but there's multiple outlets for that creativity. Granted, his father being a musician could point him in the direction of music still.

Back in Liverpool, the other Beatles could flounder as many music groups from the city never made it any where, if the others even get into it to begin with.

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His father was more of an actor by inclination than musician, though apparently all of the Lennon's were great singers.

Maybe he joins the RNZ Armed Forces? Lower class, not many options, and all that jazz; military service might be a viable option for the young man. His father having served in the British military during WWII might serve as an inspiration for John, especially if Alf glosses over his less than exemplary actions, e.g. going AWOL and the repeated imprisonments.
Perhaps his father pushes him into it, hoping John will made a better soldier than he did; hoping the young man will make something of himself. John later goes through Officer School and gets a commission, becoming a career soldier.

Hapsburg said:

Maybe he joins the RNZ Armed Forces? Lower class, not many options, and all that jazz; military service might be a viable option for the young man. His father having served in the British military during WWII might serve as an inspiration for John, especially if Alf glosses over his less than exemplary actions, e.g. going AWOL and the repeated imprisonments.
Perhaps his father pushes him into it, hoping John will made a better soldier than he did; hoping the young man will make something of himself. John later goes through Officer School and gets a commission, becoming a career soldier.

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Kind of ironic given his role in OTL in the film How I Won The War...

John was notorious in his early years for lacking discipline. Without Aunt Mimi, he's likely to be less disciplined than he was IOTL. That means that he probably wouldn't fair very well in a military career. I can't see Alfred Lennon imposing the kind of routine that Mimi did.

Another thing to consider, although it may sort of defeat the point of the intellectual exercise. I think it's worth noting that Alfred Lennon obviously did not stay in New Zealand. He came back to England after a short period. If John comes with Alfred, he might be more inclined to stay, but if John really wants to see his mother I think it's entirely possible that Lennon's life as a Kiwi could be rather short lived. Of course even if he spends a month there it could presumably alter the course of his life considerably.

Alberto Knox said:

In July of 1946, 5-year old John Lennon was taken by his father Alf to Blackpool for what was supposedly a 'long vacation'. In reality Alf intended to emigrate to New Zealand and take John along with him.

This plan was thwarted by John's mother who had followed them to Blackpool and succeeded in confronting Alf. Following a protracted argument between the two, John was forced to choose between going with his father or staying with his mother.

He chose his father. Twice.

But when his mother began to walk away, the little boy started crying and ran after her. He stayed in Liverpool and formed a quite successful rock n' roll band. The rest is history.

But since we all love messing about with history, let us suppose an alternative. Just as John is about to start bawling his eyes out, his father takes him firmly by the arm and pulls him off in the opposite direction. By the time autumn rolls around the two have arrived in New Zealand.

How does history unfold from here?

Click to expand...

Some ideas

In 1956 Eric Griffins aged 16, a student at the Quarry Bank High School in Liverpool, became enamored with Skiffle and American Rock 'n Roll along with two school mates, Peter Shotton and Rod Davis. Eric had learned to play the banjo and now decided to learn guitar, taking lessons that were based in theory. Eventually he learned simple chords and began to figure out how to play simple rock and skiffle tunes. It was at this time he formed a band with his friends Shotton on washboard and Davis on banjo. Shotton invited his friend Bill Smith to play a tea-chest bass and Griffins recruited bus mate Colin Hanton to play drums when he found out he had a kit. Griffins named the band the Quarrymen after a line in his school's song.

Griffins and Shotton were the leaders of the band, but neither one was much of singer. Hanton and Davis were committed members, but the boys had trouble with keeping a tea-chest bass player as Smith quit, then was replaced with three different boys who took turns playing the instrument: Len Garry, Ivan Vaughan and Nigel Walley until Garry settled into the position. Vaughan remained an enthusiast of the band and Walley became its manager.

During this time Vaughan started attending the Liverpool Institute and became acquainted with Paul McCartney. When Vaughan discoved McCartney was into rock 'n roll too and knew how to play guitar he decided to introduce him to Grifins and Shotton.

On Saturday 6 July 1957, the Quarrymen played at St. Peter's Church Rose Queen garden fête in Woolton. They first played on the back of a moving flatbed lorry, in a procession of floats and then at 4:15 they played onstage in a field behind the church. They were playing "Come Go with Me" when Paul McCartney arrived, and in the Scout hut after the set, Ivan Vaughan introduced McCartney to Griffins and Shotton. When McCartney sang Eddie Cochran's "Twenty Flight Rock" and Gene Vincent's "Be-Bop-A-Lula", and a medley of Little Richard songs Shotton and Griffins realized he was out of their league. They asked him if he had a band and he replied, "Nope, but I'd like to put something together like you guys have."

A couple of weeks later Shotton was wandering around town and who should almost knock him down but Paul McCartney riding his bicycle at break neck speed. "You got a band yet?" Shotton asked.

McCartney said, "Nope, haven't found any lads yet."

Shotton smiled, "How bout we be your lads?"

Once McCartney joined the band it became clear that it was now his band and not Griffins. Griffins quit the band and McCartney then replaced him with with his young 14 year old friend George Harrison. By fall of 1957 Davis and Garry had left and Shotton had almost quit due to his frustration with playing the washboard, until McCartney convinced him to stay but play the electric bass.

So was the formed the basic four man band, the Quarrymen with Paul McCartney doing vocals and guitar, George Harrison on lead guitar, Pete Shotton on electric bass and Colin Hanton on drums.

At this time John Lennon returned to Liverpool to attend the Liverpool College of Art. Lennon was also a musician, but he detested rock 'n roll. He was a pianist, a jazz afficiado, an artist and a poet. On Friday, October 18, 1957 Lennon and his new friend Stuart Suttcliffe attended a Conservative Club social held at the New Clubmoor Hall in the Norris Green section of Liverpool. The music was by the Quarrymen. McCartney wore a cream-coloured sports jacket and the rest of the band wore white shirts with tassels and black bootlace ties. During their set McCartney missed his cue on his guitar solo on "Raunchy", played all the wrong notes, and stepped back in embarrassment between Hanton and Shotton.

Lennon couldn't resist the moment. "Shoulda bought guitar lessons instead of that fancy coat, don't you wish Mister Babyface?" Thus was born the great feud that lay behind the battling bands of Liverpool.

More ideas

John Lennon had been born in Liverpool in 1940 to Julia and Alf Lennon. Alf basically disappeared from John's life when he went AWOL from the Merchant Marines in 1943 during the War. When little John went to school in November of 1945, Julia began working in a cafe and moved herself and John in with her lover, Bobby Dykins, even though she was still married to Alf who'd returned to Liverpool in early 1945..

Julia's family was horrified when they found out little John was sleeping in the same bed with Julia and Dykins and raised a fit until Julia agreed to let her sister Mimi raise John. The family agreed to let little John spend a long vacation with Alf in July of 1946. Julia suspected Alf's true intention to take John away with him. She followed them to Blackpool and tried to take John back. Alf told John it was up to him who he went with and John chose Alf. Before John could change his mind Alf swept him up and they were gone- to New Zealand.

John's life in Auckland was centered in his father's attraction to anything show business. Alf dragged John with him to every club or theater with music or comedy. It was in some of these clubs that little John fell in love with Jazz, specifically piano based jazz backed up by a double bass and drums. John devoted himself to the piano, his art and writing poetry. The other thing that dominated his life was his deep regret at leaving his mother. He came to idolize her with a deep, romantic longing for Liverpool and his mum. Growing up in clubs John developed a witty sarcastic style that helped him cope with being surrounded by world weary, heavy drinking adults.

He pestered Alf to return to Liverpool almost from the day they left. By the time he was a teenager he'd developed the dream to return to Liverpool as soon as possible and attend the Liverpool College of Art. Alf couldn't stop him and in the fall of 1957 John arrived back in Liverpool full of romantic hope.

Of course the reality of Liverpool was not the fantasy he'd harbored. Liverpool was dreary compared to Auckland. Julia was not motherly and he ended up living with his Aunt Mimi. It seemed to him that most of the kids in Liverpool were unsophisticated louts, especially the dolts into rock 'n roll with their greased hair and Teddy Boy outfits. The only relief to all this was his studies at the college and a few other sophisticated kids there like his new chum Stu Suttcliffe. Here were kids who wore black, new about existentialism, listened to Charlie Parker and smoked marijuanna.

He and Stu decided it would be a joke to go laugh at the Teddy Boys having a social in Norris Green. It was a joke, a big one. The band was loud, dirty, out of tune and the leader, a baby face Teddy in a too large cream colored brand new sports coat, seemed to think playing a guitar solo meant memorizing the licks instead of improvising and he got out of synch and didn't know how to recover. John couldn't resist as the red faced lout tried to hide behind his bassist, "Shoulda bought guitar lessons instead of that fancy coat, don't you wish Mister Babyface?"

He and Stu got a good laugh out of that. Until the bassist in that band, a bloke named Pete Shotton, came rushing off the stage and shoved John shouting, "Get out of here you bloody beatnick." John had learned in the clubs of Auckland that you had to give as good as you got, so he hauled off and decked the guy. It would have gotten worse if Stu hadn't grabbed John, apologized to the band and pulled John out.

When that band, the Quarryman, actually got a local reputation as a real rock 'n roll band that caused riots from the tiff between John and Pete the result was that they started getting opportunities around town. This really pissed off John.

"They don't even play real music, the wankers," he complained to Stu.

"Yeah, but they do play. That Paulie bloke actually was pretty good despite his screwing up on that solo. I think that Geogie fellow is even better."

"But the stuff they do is just noise. No finese. No charm. Nothing cool there. No groove, man."

John began playing anywhere he could find. He convinced Stu to get a Double Bass and back him up. Then John checked out every drummer in Liverpool and decided a fellow named Richie Starkey was the best of the lot and charmed him out of his skiffle band, the Eddie Claton Skiffle Group, to play with him and Stu.

"Anybody can beat on them skins for skiffle or rock 'n roll, Richie, only an artist can play them like an instrument with melody in Jazz. I need the best for me band. I need you."

Richie quit the Skiffle band and grew a goatee and joined John's band that John named Johnny and the Moondogs. They didn't do very well at getting gigs until one club owner said a real band had singing. So John started singing, just making up lyrics to put over the improv he loved so much. His love of poetry did him well and soon everyone was talking about the Beatnick band Johnny and the Moondogs.

Paul McCartney could forgive Lennon for his original insult. He even could forgive him for socking Pete. But he couldn't forgive him for his rambling commentary between his tunes in his gigs, a commentary that often included mocking the Quarrymen and Babyface Paulie, especially when others started calling him that.

McCartney was determined that the Quarrymen would destroy the artsy Johnny and the Moondogs musically. Unfortunately Shotton and Hanton weren't getting any better musically and they were holding him and Georgie back.

Even more ideas

During the school years of 1957-1958 and 1958-1959 the rivalry between the Quarrymen and Johnny and the Moondogs continued unabated. Even though the Quarrymen lineup changed with Les Chadwick replacing Pete Shotton and Ken Brown replacing Colin Hanton and Stu Suttcliffe became relatively adapt at the Upright Bass, they were still basically part time amateur bands. (Pete Shotton quit on his own saying, "I'm not any good at this, Paulie, I don't really enjoy it you know do you think you could find someone else?" Hanton was just outright fired.) Chadwick played bass for the Quarrymen by playing a standard Stratocaster guitar with the bass setting exagerrated, giving the band a unique pop sound.

This all changed in the summer of 1959 when Mona Best opened the Cabash Coffee Club. The Quarrymen ended up with the first booking, their first real show at a club. The Cabash was intended by Mona to be a place where rock music could be heard since the other big club in town, the Cavern, didn't allow rock. The Quarrymen became the stand by band at the Cabash.

Besides the Quarrymen now playing in a real club two other events happened due to the opening of the Cabash. The first was that Paul McCartney and George Harrison met Pete Best, Mona's son, who also was a drummer but played with a four on the floor style, that is a bass drum beat on every beat. In no time Best had replaced Brown and the Quarrymen started to have a tight, professional sound.

The second event was that Johnny and the Moondogs decided they couldn't let the Quarrymen get the better of them. Lennon set his sights on becoming the stand by band at the Cavern. He pushed his mates to practice practice practice until they achieved this goal.

Then the whole Liverpool scene blew wide open when another local band, Rory and the Hurricanes, played at the Cavern and did some Rock songs. Despite the boos of the crowd wanting jazz, it was clear there was no turning back. Now there were two clubs competing with the same kinds of music and the demand for bands to perform went up. There were only four bands professional enough at this time in Liverpool; besides the Quarrymen, Johnny and the Moondogs and Rory and the Hurricanes there was also Gerry and the Pacemakers. All four bands played regularly at the two clubs and they were all friendly with each other, that is except for the antagonism between the Quarrymen and Johnny and the Moondogs.

By the summer of 1960 the four bands were all ready for the next level, and that was waiting for them in Germany's sin city, Hamburg.

In August of 1960 the Quarrymen were booked to play at various strip clubs in Hamburg. First they were at the Indra until it was shut down due to "noise complaints" then they were switched to the Kaiserkeller. When the Indra was re-opened a few weeks later the more "quiet" band, Lennon's band, now just called The Moondogs, were booked there.

In Hamburg both bands became seasoned professionals. They also began to influence each other. The bridge between this influence was three local beat types who befriended both bands: Astrid Kirchherr, Klaus Voorman and Jurgen Vollmer. There was a natural affinity between the three and the fellow travelers in The Moondogs. In no time Astrid and Stu were a couple and all six were the best of friends.

But Astrid wanted to photograph the rock 'n rollers and so she and her two friends went to the Kaiserkeller too. Astrid, without Lennon's antagonism, heard something in the Quarrymen that impressed her and she decided to befriend them. But the one who was really impacted was Voorman. He couldn't stop talking about the power and rebellion of rock 'n roll. He got himself a bass and taught himself to play. Although he couldn't convince Lennon to appreciate the Quarrymen, he did open him up to rock 'n roll, especially roots blues. Lennon started fiddling with the guitar. On the other hand, Astrid couldn't convince McCartney to appreciate the Moondogs, but she convinced him that didn't mean he had to reject all "artsy" stuff.

During 1960 and 1961 all four bands migrated back and forth between Liverpool and Hamburg.

Stu had never really been as committed to the band as Lennon and Starkey but had done it out of his friendship with Lennon. Now his love for Astrid was stronger. When it came time for The Moondogs to go home after their 1961 stay in Hamburg, Stu decided to stay in Hamburg with Astrid. When the Moondogs returned to England they had a new bass player and he played an electric bass like he was in a rock band; his name was Klaus Voorman.

Both bands came back to England in 1961 as hard working professional acts. They still were different genres of music, but the walls between rock and jazz had started to be broken down as Lennon's jazz had turned a bit bluesy and rocky and McCartney's rock had turned a bit artsy and eclectic. Lennon and McCartney hated each other more than ever. But what neither knew was that Harrison and Starkey had become buddies.

What then

Harrison was only 16 when he went to Hamburg. Starkey was the oldest of the seven musicians in the two bands. Starkey came across Harrison looking lost in a coffee shop and decided to take him under his wing. A deep friendship developed between the two men. Starkey liked to talk and Harrison liked to listen. Harrison appreciated the worldly wise wisdom of his older friend as he navigated the ways of sin city Hamburg. Starkey appreciated the youthful enthusiasm of Harrison and his deep love of music and his professional attitude about his craft, an attitude shared by Starkey. Both had practiced their instruments as youth to the point of blisters and blood.

They also supported each other as Harrison complained about McCartney's 'bossiness' and 'perfectionism' and Starkey complained about Lennon's 'moodiness' and 'sarcasm.' On the other hand they both also deeply appreciated the musical ability of their band's leaders and loved them. The result was that their friendship gave each a steam value to deal with an overbearing team mate. The other members of the bands didn't have the same problems as Harrison and Starkey in that they were basically side men who enjoyed backing up someone else who had the creative ability. But Harrison and Starkey were not just adept professional musicians but also had deep creative wells of their own. Playing the role of sidemen wasn't as easy for them. They helped each other keep their sanity.

But their appreciation of their bands' leaders also rubbed off on each other. They quietly attended each other's shows when they could. Harrison decided Lennon was a genius. Starkey concluded that McCartney had the best, pure rock voice he'd ever heard.

"If we could get those two to stop hating each other and work together they'd create something like the world has never seen." Harrison told Starkey.

"Dream on, Junior. It'll never happen not in this world or any other."

Mersey Beat

Brian Epstein first heard about Gerry and the Pacemakers when a teenager came into his record store and asked if he had the record "My Bonnie" recorded by Tony Sheridan with Gerry and the Pacemakers. When Epstein realized the band was local when he saw an article about them in the newspaper Mersey Beat, he decided to go hear them.

Epstein described his experience in his autobiography:

"It was a little basement club called the Cavern. It was dark and grimy and filled with young men in dungarees with too much grease in their hair and young women with too much eye makeup popping chewing gum. My friend who'd agreed to come out with me took one look at the place and said, 'Brian, I must say, this is just not my cup of tea.' I told him it was okay and I'd call him up on the morrow.

"I pushed my way through the crowd and found a seat in the back of the room at a table that hadn't been washed for days. Then these boys with hair in their eyes and leather clothes came out on the stage. They smiled and waved at the crowd who cheered them. Well most of them. A beatnick was sitting at another table with two other bearded men and he shouted out, 'Hey lads, you got that Mersey Shit tonight for all the shits tonight?' That was my first experience of John Lennon.

"The band started performing. To be honest with you I thought it was so much noise. The singing, what I could hear of it, was tinny warbling through the nose. I thought to myself this was a waste of time. Then I noticed how the crowd was reacting. They were going crazy. The girls were actually screaming and silly smiles were on all the boys faces as they jerked on the dance floor. I suddenly realized it didn't matter what I thought about this music. The kids loved it and the kids bought the records."

Epstein decided to see if he could manage Gerry and the Pacemakers. But for Brian doing one thing alone was never enough. He saw that now the three bands of the Pacemakers, The Moondogs and the Quarrymen were competing to be the number one band in Liverpool. But to Brian he saw them as the same thing, a Liverpool sound he could market to all of England and through it sell records and breakout of managing a record store for his father. So he convinced Lennon and McCartney to let him manage their bands too. He used their rivalry to convince them to let him market them. Neither one wanted the other to have an advantage. Brian never gave up on Gerry and the Pacemakers, but he realized after he learned about the rivalry between Lennon and McCartney that their feud could lead to gold. Brian got ready to sell the Quarrymen and the Moondogs and their feud. But first he changed them.

Basically he turned the rocker Quarrymen and the beat Moondogs into Mods with clean shaven faces, trimmed page boy haircuts and fancy mod suits. Both Lennon and McCartney were willing to buy into his ideas when it came to how they looked and where they played and all that. Both men insisted that they control the music and he realized that was the one thing he figured they knew better than him.

In November of 1961 Epstein was able to get the Moondogs and the Quarrymen into Decca for an audition with Tony Meehan. Meehan signed the Moondogs but said about the Quarrymen, "Guitar groups are on their way out and the Quarrymen have no future in show business."

But the Quarrymen were not on the way out, just the name. In February of 1962 Epstein auditioned them with EMI with producer George Martin. But before the meeting McCartney changed the name of the band. He'd never really like the name the Quarrymen, after all no one from the old Quarry School was in the band anymore. So he just announced to his mates that from then on they were Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Martin signed them but said the name was too long, so they shortened it to just Sgt. Pepper.

Now Epstein had it made. He had the two rivals in rival recording companies. The Lennon and McCartney feud was ready to go national.

still in Liverpool

Although the three bands that broke out of Liverpool were all now signed with London Recording Companies, The Moondogs with Decca, Sgt. Pepper with EMI's Parlophone and Gerry and the Pacemakers with EMI's Columbia, they found themselves back in Liverpool in the first half of 1962 waiting for the companies to finally give them studio time.

The excitement in Liverpool that their favorite bands were now recording artists, even though they hadn't entered the studio yet, just added to the fans fervor. They couldn't get enough of the bands and all of them were working full time at the local clubs. Epstein was adept at marketing and continued to hype the Lennon/McCartney feud, meanwhile painting the Pacemakers as the "nice boys who get along with everybody."

They also did more work in Hamburg where they all received the bad news that Stu Suttcliffe died. This was very difficult for Lennon. McCartney and Harrison were visiting with Voorman over coffee one morning and the German told him how much this had torn up Lennon. McCartney reported in 1986 in a Rolling Stone interview with Kurt Loder that Harrison turned to him and said, "You know he ain't that bad a fellow and he just lost his best mate. Poor bloke."

"It's a drag, yeah." McCartney responded.

"It's a pity." Harrison said. "I don't understand how you got here? What's the point of it all? It's just ego, you know. Why can't you get along?"

Just then Starkey and Lennon walked into the cafe. Lennon walked by them ignoring them and sat at another table, but Starkey and Harrison exchanged looks. Voorman said to McCartney, "It doesn't have to be this way." Then he stood up and walked over to join his band mates.

McCartney got up, walked over to Lennon's table and said, "John, I'm sorry about Stu."

"Piss off." Lennon mumbled.

"No, man. I'm really sorry. You know Astrid is me friend and I got to be chums with Stu too, he was great, man. He loved you. I'm sorry. I mean it."

Lennon looked at McCartney, smiled weakly, said, "Thanks, Babyface," and then winked.

"It was the first time the nickname didn't seem mean to me," McCartney told Rolling Stone. "Oh, we didn't become fast friends or anything, but I think we stopped hating each other. Maybe we were growing up or maybe we were more secure because we'd both made it with getting signed, you know?"

"But you didn't stop feuding?" Loder asked. "I mean we all know about the great feud. It's part of Rock History."

"I'd say that was when the real feud started. I mean that before, you know, it was a personal thing between me and him. We'd bang on each other on stage and we had to top each other. We get the Casbah and he's got to get the Cavern. We go to Hamburg and he's got to too. He gets a contract with Decca and we got to get one or feel like we was nothing.

"But now we weren't threatened so much on each other's success or needed to hurt each other. But now it was all about the music. Now I could listen to his stuff and go, 'Man, that's some hot stuff he's doing there. I want to do something as good if I can.' And then he's hearing my stuff and saying, 'Babyface's got some brilliant things going on, let's see what I can do.' Brian played it all up as us being rivals, but in a sense we were kind of in it together, pushing each other to be the best we could."

McCartney in 1986 looked back with a slightly rose glass perspective on 1962. When they both returned to Liverpool later in the spring of that year the rivalry on stage was actually just as intense. The reality was that the bands didn't stop "banging on each other" on stage at all. Instead Epstein actually convinced them both to up it and suggested McCartney come up with his own nickname for Lennon.

He tried a few, but it was Kiwi that stuck. The first time McCartney used the term he actually said, "I hear Kiwi Sucking Lennon was here last night. I'm glad his caterwauling his artsy fartsy poetry didn't break your ears and you're still around for some good old rock 'n roll tonight with Sgt. Pepper, eh?"

Emperor Norton I said:

I think butterflies could have a radical effect. This goes into my "Hitler the Irate Baker" trope I bring up every time someone asks if Person X was from country X; you completely change the person by moving them.

Lennon would perhaps continue to be creative, but there's multiple outlets for that creativity. Granted, his father being a musician could point him in the direction of music still.

Back in Liverpool, the other Beatles could flounder as many music groups from the city never made it any where, if the others even get into it to begin with.

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Agreed.
With pop music in particular...Even if you develop into having the same interests and talent its just so much down to luck. Being in the right place at the right time and getting noticed. Even The Beatles as we know them had a close run thing.
I wrote a story about this sort of thing a while ago- dude invents a time machine, goes back 30 years, runs into his favourite singer in a bar and they have a little chat about nothing, he arrives back up time to discover his favourite artist's career never happened, that one little encounter with him knocked off the luck he had IOTL to get noticed and be able to launch a career.

I liked reading the Lennon as jazz musician idea, but I think there's a distinct possibility that Lennon won't really be involved in music in any real way at all. If you want this version of John Lennon to be famous, why not make him a comedian/poet of some type? It's just as likely in my opinion as him leading band.