This is a map from WP of the areas with major Persian cultural influence. Your challenge, should you accept it, is to have an Iranian state that extends, roughly, over all of this territory.
AH Challenge: Make modern-day Iran look like this
- Thread starter Mirza Khan
- Start date
This is a map from WP of the areas with major Persian cultural influence. Your challenge, should you accept it, is to have an Iranian state that extends, roughly, over all of this territory.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
A nice start would be to defeat the Ottomans as soon as humanely possible though that's kind of hard considering the Ottoman military was a strong force.
archaeogeek
Banned
If you could live without the kurdish and armenian territories, just having Nadir Shah settle down when he's rebuilt Khwarizmian Iran and stop the conquests to actually work on administrating them these might be workable, although hungry hungry Russia will probably gobble up some of the northern provinces so maybe not...
Commissar
Banned
Ivan Gudovich and Paul Tsitsianov are recalled in 1812 to fight Napoleon, allowing the Qajars to hold onto and make limited gains in the Caucasus.
Abbas Mirza uses the prestige of the Victory and tax revenues to continue modernizing the Qajar force for the return of Russian Forces.
1815. Russian Forces some 10,000 strong return to renew the war. Mirza meets them with 15,000 Infantry, 35,000 cavalry. Only a third of the cavalry actually have carbines, the rest are horse archers.
However, with two years of uninterrupted training and equipping, Mirza handily smashes the Russians.
Alexander sends more men and these too are defeated. Each defeat adds more weapons to the Qajar's armies.
The struggle lasts a decade with on again, off again offensives by both sides, but the Russians are unable to throw the Qajars out of the Caucasus.
Abbas Mirza uses the prestige of the Victory and tax revenues to continue modernizing the Qajar force for the return of Russian Forces.
1815. Russian Forces some 10,000 strong return to renew the war. Mirza meets them with 15,000 Infantry, 35,000 cavalry. Only a third of the cavalry actually have carbines, the rest are horse archers.
However, with two years of uninterrupted training and equipping, Mirza handily smashes the Russians.
Alexander sends more men and these too are defeated. Each defeat adds more weapons to the Qajar's armies.
The struggle lasts a decade with on again, off again offensives by both sides, but the Russians are unable to throw the Qajars out of the Caucasus.
I from what I've read of Nader Shah, he was (like most nomadic warlords) very good at conquering stuff but not nearly as good at administering it, or building the lasting institutions needed to create a state that can survive beyond its founder's lifetime. Perhaps a better POD might be to have Nader die in a hunting accident or something about ten years or so before OTL-preferably before his campaign into the Mughal Empire. Then, his eldest son (who I think had somewhat more talent for administration) can take over, and the destructiveness of Nader's final years averted.
Ooh, this sounds interesting. A Persia that can successfully fight off the Russians will have more freedom of action in the 19th century. In particular, Britain won't see Persia as being under undue Russian influence, and thus probably won't send over gunboats when they try to grab Herat, and might even support them as a bulwark against Russian expansionism towards the Indian Ocean.
archaeogeek
Banned
Oh, I agree, anything that can get Nader Shah to die or bow out is a good deal for a continuous survival of the Iranian Empire beyond its contemporary borders. And the butterflies in India would probably be impressive...
Commissar
Banned
1826-1829: Qajar Forces move into Iraq and Anatolia and conquer most of Kurdistan from the Ottomans and gain the Tigris down to the Persian Gulf.
1830-1837: Relatively peaceful time. Abbas Mirza finishes military reforms and establishes several state armories and factories to supply his forces with armaments. He also became Shahanshah of Persia.
1838-1839: Abbas Mirza puts down the Afghan dissidents and beats back the British.
1840-1845: Shah Mirza declares war on the Sikh and drives for the Punjab.
1830-1837: Relatively peaceful time. Abbas Mirza finishes military reforms and establishes several state armories and factories to supply his forces with armaments. He also became Shahanshah of Persia.
1838-1839: Abbas Mirza puts down the Afghan dissidents and beats back the British.
1840-1845: Shah Mirza declares war on the Sikh and drives for the Punjab.
Of little skims of territory in Panjab are in the Designated persian territory.
archaeogeek
Banned
Actually if Afghanistan is part of Iran before 1834, Peshawar is still part of it and so you don't need an invasion of Punjab to get it...
Commissar
Banned
But it does make a push for the Sindh possible, unless you want to start a war with Britain straight off the back for it.
archaeogeek
Banned
Sindh? Wouldn't that be a bit overzealous considering it's outside the given borders? >.>
Commissar
Banned
No, Greater Iran goes to the upper Sindh or Indus River which is half of Pakistan. And if the Qajars go that far, they might as well take the entire river as a natural border before campaigning in the stans.
archaeogeek
Banned
Well at this rate they might as well grab Kashmir, Simla and Punjab too for good measure
Commissar
Banned
Well at this rate they might as well grab Kashmir, Simla and Punjab too for good measure
When the Indian Mutiny breaks out and they aren't involved in the Stans, they just might.
Well at this rate they might as well grab Kashmir, Simla and Punjab too for good measure
Then, by 2010, they lose Kashmir, Shimla, and Panjab because the map said so.
Commissar
If the mutiny breaks out. There are enough butterflies here, especially with a markedly more powerful Persia on the border, that the EIC might not cut back on its military that much.
Also, if the mutiny does occur and is as savage as OTL then Iran wants to keep well out. Britain will want revenge and give the technological and cultural advantages at the time it will be likely to be seriously hurt any state that seeks to interfer.
Steve
archaeogeek
Banned
And in terms of butterflies, not having nadir Shah invade the Moghul empire and stupidly cause both empires to fall apart, there might be enough butterflies for there not to be a need for a mutiny at all
Commissar
Banned
But if Iran controls the strait of Hormuz and keeps British ships from going through it, there is jack and shit Britain can do about it. Even without that control, there still jack and shit Britain can do about it without sacrificing control of India to take on this far more powerful Persia.