I realize Italy was not yet united when Napoleon Bonaparte was born in 1769, but that was, if I remember correctly, very shortly after the French took the island. I do not know if the Italian states had any sort of pact with each other making such an attack unlikely, but what if a major Italian state came in posession of Corsica at the same point as OTL France? Would it be possible for Napoleon to become a General of one of these states, with ambitions of becoming Emperor of a united Italy? Also, how would this affect France? I imagine the butterflies would be very significant, as the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars shaped the future of Europe to a great extent. Any thoughts?
An Italian Napoleon?
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Well that's an interesting what if.
One would have to assume the French Revolution still happens, though obviously without General Bonaparte, it may go a big differently.
Would Napoleon be able to play Garibaldi a full generation earlier? Perhaps? Not sure if he'd be destined to be Emperor though just because.
One would have to assume the French Revolution still happens, though obviously without General Bonaparte, it may go a big differently.
Would Napoleon be able to play Garibaldi a full generation earlier? Perhaps? Not sure if he'd be destined to be Emperor though just because.
Valdemar II
Banned
The problem with a Italian Napoleon are population size, France was population-wise the biggest state in Europe at the time of the Revolution, while even a unified Italy would be smaller than either Austria or France. A Italian Napoleon will just result in Austria, France or a alliance of them move into Italy and end him.
Susano
Banned
The meteoric rise of Napoleon in ranks could also only really have happened during the French revolution. Everywhere else, generals were named based on patronage, especially among nobles. Though I guess its always possible to become a court favourite and hence gets the monarchs patronage, but that doesnt seem to have been Napoleons strong suit.
Yeah but Venice might have after all wasn't there situation desperate by this time they would accept anything to assure survival, how ironic would that be, an Italien Napoleon leading Venice the same country he destroyed in our TL Lols it would make an awesome tl.
None of this changes the fact that Napoleon's father would still send him to Paris. He didn't send him there because of the national link, he sent him there because it was one of the world's most renowned schools. Corsica could have been any nationality and Bonaparte would still get sent to Paris - even if Carlo (his father)'s acquaintance and sometime partner Pasquale Paoli had achieved his ambition of making Corsica an English protectorate parliamentary monarchy, Napoleon would likely still end up in the French army. The Ecole Militaire was just too prestigious to turn down for a Corsican. What you need to do to avoid this is find a way to have Napoleon's father end up not sending him away at all. The problem is this means Napoleon will likely end up being a Corsican noble and thus wouldn't be likely to become a military man at all.
Sure Napoleon goes to the academy but there he reads about Venice glory and thinks he could revive it so he turns down a French position offer and goes to Venice where he could potentially create an army and unite Italy.
Napoleon Bonaparte was born in 1769, the same year that Corsica joined France. If you have a POD before his birth it will most likely butterfly him away. But, if we assume that he is still born as the Napoleon we know and despite differing social conditions matures into a similiar person as the historical figure, then this can be workable.
Before being subjugated by France in 1769, Corsica was an independent republic, founded in 1755. That's fourteen years for the island to be aquired by someone else. Before independence, Corsica was a Genoese possesion. Giving the island back to Genoa wouldn't be a good idea because Genoa at this time had been almost completely subjugated by France. And of course we want Napoleon out of France.
If Napoleon is going to be a military mastermind he needs to be trained in a military academy. In OTL, he underwent his training to become an artillery officer at the Ecole Militaire in Paris. The only military academy in Italy is the Accademia Militare di Modena, located in Turin of the Kingdom of Sardinia. Before 1798 the academy had neither a military engineering school nor an artillery school, so Napoleon will have to find another early specialty.
Now, we need to have Corsica stay independent after Napoleon is born and have him wind up in Turin, training to be an officer. Keeping Corsica independent is hard enough. Genoa still had a claim to the island, but they had long since given up hope of controlling the island. They also had large debts, which in OTL they paid off by selling that claim to the Kingdom of France. The easiest thing to do would have been to have Genoa sell their claim to the Kingdom of Sardinia. Unfortunately, King Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia might not have had the money to aquire the rights nor the desire to subjugate the island. That is the kind of question we need an expert for. Also of note is whether France, which dominated Genoa, would interfere in the proceedings. If, somehow, France keeps their nose out of it and King Emmanuel III has the money and the desire to buy the claim then you have just made it a lot easier for Napoleon to get from Corsica to the military academy in Turin.
According to Wikipedia, in 1767 the Corsicans took the island of Capraia from Genoa, which caused Genoa to ask the French for help, ultimately ending the Treaty of Versaille, in which Genoa sold their claim over Corsica to France. If you keep Corsica from doing this then the island nation might be able to hang onto her independence a little longer, though eventually Genoa will ask France for help, which is why I typed out the above scenario. As a side note, the above would have to happen before 1767 but not too much before because we don't want to butterfly away Napoleon.
So, if you go with scenario one, we'll say in 1767, Genoa sells its claim over Corsica to Sardinia. Then, King Emmanuel III invades and conquers the island. Two years later Napoleon is born. Actually, Napoleone di Buonaparte is born; ITTL he won't change his name to make it sound more French. Because Napoleone's parents are somewhat affluent, he will most likely study abroad, probably in this timeline somewhere in Piedmont. At the age of 15 he can enroll in the Accademia Militaire di Modena. We still have to pick an alternate field of study for him. After that we have his rise to the top.
The Napoleon we known was greatly benefited by the French Revolution, which allowed him to make a meteoric rise through the ranks of society to the very top. Here, we basically have two options. Create our own Sardinian Revolution or have Napoleone become a favorite of King Victor Amadeus III, giving him the backing of the Kingdom of Sardinia.
Either way, Napoleone is going to have a very hard time carving out his own Italian Empire. The Kingdom of Naples-Sicily and the Grand Duchy of Tuscany are both in personal union with the Austrian Empire. The Republic of Genoa isn't going to go without a war with France, though if the French Revolution occurs on schedule Genoa could be snatched. The Republic of Venice, which by this time is long past its golden age, is protected by a strip of Austrian land between it and Piedmont. Of course, attacking the Papal States would be suicidal, as all of the catholic kings would come to the rescue of the pope from the upstart Sardinians. The Bishopric of Trent is also under the authority of Austria. The Duchy of Parma is ruled by Don Philip, attacking it would incur the wrath of Spain. Only the Duchy of Modena and Reggio, i.e. Este, and the Republic of Lucca can be taken without foreign entanglement.
What you need is for the French Revolution to still occur and the War of the First Coalition to happen. In it, France could agree to let Sardinia absorb Genoa in exchange for Sardinia distracting Austria by attacking its italian possesions. This allows Napoleone to start building his Italian Empire.
Phew, that was a long post. Now I'm starting to feel like turning that into a timeline.
Before being subjugated by France in 1769, Corsica was an independent republic, founded in 1755. That's fourteen years for the island to be aquired by someone else. Before independence, Corsica was a Genoese possesion. Giving the island back to Genoa wouldn't be a good idea because Genoa at this time had been almost completely subjugated by France. And of course we want Napoleon out of France.
If Napoleon is going to be a military mastermind he needs to be trained in a military academy. In OTL, he underwent his training to become an artillery officer at the Ecole Militaire in Paris. The only military academy in Italy is the Accademia Militare di Modena, located in Turin of the Kingdom of Sardinia. Before 1798 the academy had neither a military engineering school nor an artillery school, so Napoleon will have to find another early specialty.
Now, we need to have Corsica stay independent after Napoleon is born and have him wind up in Turin, training to be an officer. Keeping Corsica independent is hard enough. Genoa still had a claim to the island, but they had long since given up hope of controlling the island. They also had large debts, which in OTL they paid off by selling that claim to the Kingdom of France. The easiest thing to do would have been to have Genoa sell their claim to the Kingdom of Sardinia. Unfortunately, King Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia might not have had the money to aquire the rights nor the desire to subjugate the island. That is the kind of question we need an expert for. Also of note is whether France, which dominated Genoa, would interfere in the proceedings. If, somehow, France keeps their nose out of it and King Emmanuel III has the money and the desire to buy the claim then you have just made it a lot easier for Napoleon to get from Corsica to the military academy in Turin.
According to Wikipedia, in 1767 the Corsicans took the island of Capraia from Genoa, which caused Genoa to ask the French for help, ultimately ending the Treaty of Versaille, in which Genoa sold their claim over Corsica to France. If you keep Corsica from doing this then the island nation might be able to hang onto her independence a little longer, though eventually Genoa will ask France for help, which is why I typed out the above scenario. As a side note, the above would have to happen before 1767 but not too much before because we don't want to butterfly away Napoleon.
So, if you go with scenario one, we'll say in 1767, Genoa sells its claim over Corsica to Sardinia. Then, King Emmanuel III invades and conquers the island. Two years later Napoleon is born. Actually, Napoleone di Buonaparte is born; ITTL he won't change his name to make it sound more French. Because Napoleone's parents are somewhat affluent, he will most likely study abroad, probably in this timeline somewhere in Piedmont. At the age of 15 he can enroll in the Accademia Militaire di Modena. We still have to pick an alternate field of study for him. After that we have his rise to the top.
The Napoleon we known was greatly benefited by the French Revolution, which allowed him to make a meteoric rise through the ranks of society to the very top. Here, we basically have two options. Create our own Sardinian Revolution or have Napoleone become a favorite of King Victor Amadeus III, giving him the backing of the Kingdom of Sardinia.
Either way, Napoleone is going to have a very hard time carving out his own Italian Empire. The Kingdom of Naples-Sicily and the Grand Duchy of Tuscany are both in personal union with the Austrian Empire. The Republic of Genoa isn't going to go without a war with France, though if the French Revolution occurs on schedule Genoa could be snatched. The Republic of Venice, which by this time is long past its golden age, is protected by a strip of Austrian land between it and Piedmont. Of course, attacking the Papal States would be suicidal, as all of the catholic kings would come to the rescue of the pope from the upstart Sardinians. The Bishopric of Trent is also under the authority of Austria. The Duchy of Parma is ruled by Don Philip, attacking it would incur the wrath of Spain. Only the Duchy of Modena and Reggio, i.e. Este, and the Republic of Lucca can be taken without foreign entanglement.
What you need is for the French Revolution to still occur and the War of the First Coalition to happen. In it, France could agree to let Sardinia absorb Genoa in exchange for Sardinia distracting Austria by attacking its italian possesions. This allows Napoleone to start building his Italian Empire.
Phew, that was a long post. Now I'm starting to feel like turning that into a timeline.
Possibly young Napoleone could study at the Accademia Reale Sabauda, in Turin (the Accademia Militare of Modena was established in 1861, after the unification). I'm very sceptic about his chances of a meteoric career: Piedmont is a backwater, and if one is not part of the piedmontese aristocracy...
The duchy of Modena is within the area of influence of Austria: the ruling family is Habsburg-Este
The duchy of Modena is within the area of influence of Austria: the ruling family is Habsburg-Este
Do you have a source for that? Wikipedia (I know that's one of the worst sources available but its better than nothing) says the following:
He could study at the Accademia Reale Sabauda earlier in life. I picked Piedmont because they were the only place in Italy I could find that had some sort of a military academy. They are also not under the domination of a great power and are well positioned to take advantage of the French Revolution. And while a backwater on the scale of all of Europe, they are one of the more important Italic states at the time. And I know the Duchy of Modena is in Este lands, but I thought the military academy was actually in Turin?
You must be thinking of Venice in the high middle ages, when they were powerful. At this time they were a backwater, economically stagnate without any attraction for Napoleone.
archaeogeek
Banned
Like others said, Venice, by the 18th century, was barely a third rate power; when Napoleon and the emperor split up the republic at Campo Formio with the republic being barely consulted, it merely confirmed what everyone else already knew: the republic mostly just existed at the mercy of Austria at this point. It had barely 4 million people compared to the Habsburg lands' and France's roughly 30 million each. The republic barely had a military at all, it was surrounded on both sides by two of Europe's main military machines. Even when you take into account the OTL Italian Campaigns, not even Napoleon would have been good enough to make 18th century Venice survive against Austria without it being kept busy in the low countries (Italy in OTL was a secondary front, which caught everyone on both sides absolutely by surprise).
The other options would be lands held by Habsburg cadet branches, none of which were particularly powerful individually, Sardinia, which was a backwater with a court so pious it made the Bourbons look like libertine philosophes, not an environment young Bonaparte would have thrived in. The Bourbons themselves have a relatively weak position in the north and the Two Sicilies are not going to stand for an invasion/unification of Italy; unlike Spain, there was hardly a peep coming from the area during the Napoleonic wars, the population didn't really care who ruled over them.
There is an alternate option of sorts; but it's not really Italy, unless you take into account that she was Duchess of Milan and that her husband was the archduke of Tuscany: Habsburg service; there's actually a little royalist piece that was written by a french author called "Ferdmarschall von Bonaparte" in which Austria ends up being the country to finance the reconquest of Genoa; as a result, Napoljum von Bonaparte ends up in the austrian artillery corps instead. While some of it is a bit farfetched, the family was minor nobility and the artillery was, in many countries, the "meritocratic" branch of the army. Plus, Maria Theresa is said to have instituted the order of Maria Theresa to reduce the rigidity of the general officer corps, the apocryphal interpretation is that it was initially awarded for officers who won despite going against orders, so to a certain degree while he might have a few difficulties adjusting to things at first, he would probably stand a slight chance of attracting powerful protectors if he rises up far enough (I suspect even at captain he would probably start making noise
).
Also, Sardinia, in the 18th century, is in the french sphere of influence.
The other options would be lands held by Habsburg cadet branches, none of which were particularly powerful individually, Sardinia, which was a backwater with a court so pious it made the Bourbons look like libertine philosophes, not an environment young Bonaparte would have thrived in. The Bourbons themselves have a relatively weak position in the north and the Two Sicilies are not going to stand for an invasion/unification of Italy; unlike Spain, there was hardly a peep coming from the area during the Napoleonic wars, the population didn't really care who ruled over them.
There is an alternate option of sorts; but it's not really Italy, unless you take into account that she was Duchess of Milan and that her husband was the archduke of Tuscany: Habsburg service; there's actually a little royalist piece that was written by a french author called "Ferdmarschall von Bonaparte" in which Austria ends up being the country to finance the reconquest of Genoa; as a result, Napoljum von Bonaparte ends up in the austrian artillery corps instead. While some of it is a bit farfetched, the family was minor nobility and the artillery was, in many countries, the "meritocratic" branch of the army. Plus, Maria Theresa is said to have instituted the order of Maria Theresa to reduce the rigidity of the general officer corps, the apocryphal interpretation is that it was initially awarded for officers who won despite going against orders, so to a certain degree while he might have a few difficulties adjusting to things at first, he would probably stand a slight chance of attracting powerful protectors if he rises up far enough (I suspect even at captain he would probably start making noise
).Also, Sardinia, in the 18th century, is in the french sphere of influence.
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You can check the historical section of the Accademia Militare of Modena. It's in Italian but can be easily translated by Google
http://www.esercito.difesa.it/siti_scuole/modena/pagina_citta.htm
The Accademia Reale Sabauda was located in Turin, up to 1865. After 1865, the infantry and cavalry academy was moved to Modena, where a smaller academy had been established by the duke of Modena, while the artillery academy remained in Turin.
The house of Este had become Habsburg-Este when the last heiress married an Habsburg archduke.
Sadly I have to agree. The last attempt of the republic to restore its past fortunes had been with the war of Candia, but after the end of the war (1714) Venice stagnated, and was no more a player in Italy, much less in Europe
As a matter of fact, the Savoys were always trying to play France vs. Austria; however in the 2nd half of the 18th centry they were much more close to Austria, which they supported in the wars of Polish and Austrian succession
A Genoan-born Napoleon would become french nonetheless.
Please consider Massena's history.
Please consider Massena's history.
Grey Wolf
Donor
There is an alternate option of sorts; but it's not really Italy, unless you take into account that she was Duchess of Milan and that her husband was the archduke of Tuscany: Habsburg service; there's actually a little royalist piece that was written by a french author called "Ferdmarschall von Bonaparte" in which Austria ends up being the country to finance the reconquest of Genoa; as a result, Napoljum von Bonaparte ends up in the austrian artillery corps instead. While some of it is a bit farfetched, the family was minor nobility and the artillery was, in many countries, the "meritocratic" branch of the army. Plus, Maria Theresa is said to have instituted the order of Maria Theresa to reduce the rigidity of the general officer corps, the apocryphal interpretation is that it was initially awarded for officers who won despite going against orders, so to a certain degree while he might have a few difficulties adjusting to things at first, he would probably stand a slight chance of attracting powerful protectors if he rises up far enough (I suspect even at captain he would probably start making noise
Also, Sardinia, in the 18th century, is in the french sphere of influence.
I rather like the Tuscany option, compared to other places its pretty forward-looking in this time period.
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Grey Wolf
archaeogeek
Banned
The quote also makes me realize I made two tiny mistakes (Tuscany was a grand duchy, the territory to reconquer was Corsica
) - the other major one, I actually was unaware that Sardinia had shifted alliances, then again the late 18th century saw european diplomatic systems appear and fall apart, especially the french, so I'm unsurprised.Also Tuscany is kind of interesting; first country to abolish the death penalty and all that, the future emperor Leopold II apparently tried to turn his own principality into another "enlightened despotism" in Italy. However, the later Medici had seriously squandered their vast wealth trying to act like "real" princes during the 17th century, so while a nice piece of land it was not quite the most amazing place: on the other hand it compares to Denmark without Norway in size, population and wealth.
Grey Wolf
Donor
The quote also makes me realize I made two tiny mistakes (Tuscany was a grand duchy, the territory to reconquer was Corsica
Also Tuscany is kind of interesting; first country to abolish the death penalty and all that, the future emperor Leopold II apparently tried to turn his own principality into another "enlightened despotism" in Italy. However, the later Medici had seriously squandered their vast wealth trying to act like "real" princes during the 17th century, so while a nice piece of land it was not quite the most amazing place: on the other hand it compares to Denmark without Norway in size, population and wealth.
Yeah, I always was intrigued how the grand duchy served as a training ground for future emperors in this period, and how they had enlightened (by the standards of the day) rule there that never quite held up so well once they got to Vienna; admittedly by then they were older and conservatism often grows with age
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Grey Wolf
If Sardinia ends up ruling Corsica, then they may not be a backwater.
Another thing, though, could be having France or another power still ruling Corsica, but also ruling parts of Italy, that way that Napoleon may come to identify himself as an Italian. Ofcourse, this would require an earlier age of Nationalism, and as nationalism came to being due to the Napoleonic wars, then this is kind of a catch-22.
I agree that Tuscany was probably one of the most powerful states in Italy, but that is because they were in personal union with Austria. The point of this thread is to get a Napoleone that united Italy, meaning he has to be an Italian nationalist. I can't see that happening if he is employed by the habsburgs, especially if he ends up in Austria.
@LordKalvan: Thanks, I don't speak Italian so its hard for me find out these things. Maybe the best idea is to not have his father change his mind. Napoleone can still be educated at the ecole militaire, but we need to keep him from identifying as french. Maybe, because Corsica is still independent (or a Sardinian possession) when th French Revolution breaks out he flees there. The hard part is going from that stage to making him an important ruler on a quest to unite Italy.
EDIT: As Orko points out, Sardinia will be more powerful with the aquisition of Corsica.
@LordKalvan: Thanks, I don't speak Italian so its hard for me find out these things. Maybe the best idea is to not have his father change his mind. Napoleone can still be educated at the ecole militaire, but we need to keep him from identifying as french. Maybe, because Corsica is still independent (or a Sardinian possession) when th French Revolution breaks out he flees there. The hard part is going from that stage to making him an important ruler on a quest to unite Italy.
EDIT: As Orko points out, Sardinia will be more powerful with the aquisition of Corsica.
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