AH Challenge: Canadian Battleships
- Thread starter Ming777
- Start date
The Canadian Government did propose to buy four extra QEs for the Royal Navy before WW1, but it fell through. IIRC the finance wasn't right. Maybe if finances were different then they might end up under the RCN flag eventually?
We can start by creating a reason for owning and operating battleships. Power projection and protecting the Canadian Empire? A time traveller explaining the facts to the Japanese and Germans should make Yamato, Musashi, Bismarck and Tirpitz available for Canadian use. Wouldn't it be funny if Swordfishes flew to Taranto, only to find out the Italian capital ships were harboured in Toronto?
If the British Caribbean colonies had been placed under Canadian control in 1919 like there was talk of Canada probably would have a few battleships to protect them.
Without needed to protect far flung territory there's very little reason to have any battleships, so even if Canada had bought some in WW2 they would have quickly been sold or scrapped after the war to save money.
Without needed to protect far flung territory there's very little reason to have any battleships, so even if Canada had bought some in WW2 they would have quickly been sold or scrapped after the war to save money.
Hmm, this is a tricky one. Without a complicated pre-1914 POD perhaps the best option would be for a post war POD.
During the Great War Canada has finally come of age as a full and incresingly equal memeber of the Empire alongside Britain. At the same time, a militarily and economically exhausted Britain decides that Canada could do more to take part in the defence of the Empire and thus reduce it's own massive expendature and so encourages Canada to expand her armed forces (OTL they were cut back so dratically that by 1939 the navy only had 6 destroyers). Canada acepts this request and helps take over some of the Royal Navy's duties in the Atlantic and Carribean. If we look at the the Australian navy for comparison, by 1939 it had 6 crusiers (of varying types) at the outbreak of war. I think perhaps battleships are out of the question in terms cost and manpower but I could maybe see Canada could order 6 County Class Crusiers to form the core of her peacetime navy in the early 20's as part of the military policy, supported by British wartime surplus destroyers. Come to the 1930's, and with the new military arms race going on in Europe, Canada continues to expand her role in the Empire and matches Britains military buildup. She purchases/builds a number, say 4-8 new town class Crusiers to replace or suplement the ageing Counties and replaces her old destroyers with two dozen or so Tribal Class destroyers and maybe, if she's feeling bold even orders up 1-2 Illustrious Class Aircraft Carriers. If Canada decided to focus on her navy, I can see this at a push being quite possible, more so though if she simply replaces the counties outright than suplements them.
Russell
P.S. I think someone could make quite a good wee TL based on this... The Mann, where are you?
During the Great War Canada has finally come of age as a full and incresingly equal memeber of the Empire alongside Britain. At the same time, a militarily and economically exhausted Britain decides that Canada could do more to take part in the defence of the Empire and thus reduce it's own massive expendature and so encourages Canada to expand her armed forces (OTL they were cut back so dratically that by 1939 the navy only had 6 destroyers). Canada acepts this request and helps take over some of the Royal Navy's duties in the Atlantic and Carribean. If we look at the the Australian navy for comparison, by 1939 it had 6 crusiers (of varying types) at the outbreak of war. I think perhaps battleships are out of the question in terms cost and manpower but I could maybe see Canada could order 6 County Class Crusiers to form the core of her peacetime navy in the early 20's as part of the military policy, supported by British wartime surplus destroyers. Come to the 1930's, and with the new military arms race going on in Europe, Canada continues to expand her role in the Empire and matches Britains military buildup. She purchases/builds a number, say 4-8 new town class Crusiers to replace or suplement the ageing Counties and replaces her old destroyers with two dozen or so Tribal Class destroyers and maybe, if she's feeling bold even orders up 1-2 Illustrious Class Aircraft Carriers. If Canada decided to focus on her navy, I can see this at a push being quite possible, more so though if she simply replaces the counties outright than suplements them.
Russell
P.S. I think someone could make quite a good wee TL based on this... The Mann, where are you?
Might we be able to tweak the Washington Naval Treaty so that it offers the British some advantage to spread some of its capital ships among the commonwealth navies? Maybe the British are able to play semantics and get the commonwealth navies listed separate from the RN for a net increase in the British Empire's total tonnage from OTL. Then the British could "give" a battleship or two to Canada in order to keep a larger total force overall. I'm not sure how the British could pull this off, but at least Canada wouldn't have to pay the full costs of supporting a battleship if it was only nominally theirs.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
I don't think that would result in BBs. Cruisers would be more appropriate for such duties.
For Canada to build BBs you would need a large threat to the British system, like the HSF. The best bet was the proposal to build the modified QEs prior to WWI.
In 1909-10 the talks on imperial defence got pretty visceral in Canada. The Tories supported just giving money to fund British ships while the Liberals pushed for two independant Canadian cruiser squadrons (one for each coast). if Laurier can somehow get past Borden on the issue, then maybe Canadian cruisers are a possibility, with battleships to come.
I think the easiest way for Canadians to get battleships is to have the British get beaten badly at some point and have more emphasis on the colonies taking care of themselves. If (miraculously) the Americans get beaten too at some point Canada may have to actually bother to protect itself (gasp!).
I think the easiest way for Canadians to get battleships is to have the British get beaten badly at some point and have more emphasis on the colonies taking care of themselves. If (miraculously) the Americans get beaten too at some point Canada may have to actually bother to protect itself (gasp!).
Canada's primary problem would be the manningproblem, as the nation had and still has a relatively small population. A battleship requires quite a large crew, both on the ship and in the dockyards, which are needed to operate it and to keep it operational.
One sollution would be to have Canada get a "left over" from the UK propably after the Great War. Something happened with the WW2 as well, when a carrier was supplied to the Canadese. An older type of battleship could well have been purchased, primarily as a trainignship, simmilar to the prewar armrored cruiser HMCS Niobe.
One sollution would be to have Canada get a "left over" from the UK propably after the Great War. Something happened with the WW2 as well, when a carrier was supplied to the Canadese. An older type of battleship could well have been purchased, primarily as a trainignship, simmilar to the prewar armrored cruiser HMCS Niobe.
Prestige...
In the late 19th and early to mid 20th century, having a battleship was a point of prestige. So, if Canada is to be seen as more than an appendage to Great Britain, having a shiny new battleship is a step in the right direction. Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Australia, and Malaya all funded battleships in the pre Great War era; I'd think Canada could afford one or two if it wanted to.
(Malaya didn't hav a battleship, but raised the funds for the fifth Queen Elizabeth.)
In the late 19th and early to mid 20th century, having a battleship was a point of prestige. So, if Canada is to be seen as more than an appendage to Great Britain, having a shiny new battleship is a step in the right direction. Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Australia, and Malaya all funded battleships in the pre Great War era; I'd think Canada could afford one or two if it wanted to.
(Malaya didn't hav a battleship, but raised the funds for the fifth Queen Elizabeth.)
Fearless Leader
Donor
Perhaps this will work...
POD: August 11th 1914, Captain Walter Hose of the HMCS RAINBOW decides to continue south in his search for German raiders rather than return to the Royal Naval base at Esquimalt to re-equip. Preceding south to the Farallon islands, Hose comes across the German light cruiser the SMS LEIPZIG. Outclassed in nearly every way, Hose radios his position before attempting to close the distance with the superior LEIPZIG in an attempt to inflict some damage. The resulting battle sees the LEIPZIG sustain minor damage while the RAINBOW is sunk along with most of her crew. However Hose’s aggressive tactics during the battle force the LEIPZIG to expend the majority of her ammunition in the struggle.
August-September 1914: News of the Battle of the Farallon Islands reaches Canada within days and immediately enthrals the Canadian population. “Remember the RAINBOW!” becomes Canada’s official battlecry almost overnight. Newspapers teem with reports of the battle and are eagerly snatched up by a willing populace. Though the initial flow of Canadian volunteers was directed towards the Army, with the intent of fighting in France, news of the RAINBOW’s gallant defeat results in a substantial shift of volunteers towards the Navy. The fervour of the Canadian people is matched by politicians from both the Liberals and the Tories to a lesser extent who advocate the construction of a powerful navy to avenge the RAINBOW and ensure the protection of Canada’s coasts and trade lanes. Politicians bicker back and forth but the weight of public opinion sees the Wartime Emergency Naval Service Bill of 1914 rammed through Parliament.
A compromise between the Tories and the Liberals sees the Naval Service Bill's funds split between developing Canadian shipbuilding and industrial capacity, and providing funds to the Royal Navy. Domestically the Canadians will begin immediately building a small fleet of escorts and coastal submarines designed to scare away enemy raiders and submarines while abroad ships will be purchased to serve under the RN with Canadian crews.
Rather than split their funds among several smaller ships, the Canadians opt to provide funds to purchase a Chilean dreadnought under construction in Great Britain (OTL's HMS Canada). The Admiralty agrees to the Canadian's stipulations and thus the HMCS RAINBOW is commissioned as hundreds of volunteers make their way across the Atlantic to begin training.
Medium Term:
Canada's army takes a backseat in WWI to it's naval endeavors. Canada's small fleet of ASW escorts prove extremely handy when the U-boats start sinking ships while the HMCS Rainbow acquits herself well against the HSF. However the sheer unnecessary cost of maintaining such a vessel sees her shipped back to Chile after WWI.
POD: August 11th 1914, Captain Walter Hose of the HMCS RAINBOW decides to continue south in his search for German raiders rather than return to the Royal Naval base at Esquimalt to re-equip. Preceding south to the Farallon islands, Hose comes across the German light cruiser the SMS LEIPZIG. Outclassed in nearly every way, Hose radios his position before attempting to close the distance with the superior LEIPZIG in an attempt to inflict some damage. The resulting battle sees the LEIPZIG sustain minor damage while the RAINBOW is sunk along with most of her crew. However Hose’s aggressive tactics during the battle force the LEIPZIG to expend the majority of her ammunition in the struggle.
August-September 1914: News of the Battle of the Farallon Islands reaches Canada within days and immediately enthrals the Canadian population. “Remember the RAINBOW!” becomes Canada’s official battlecry almost overnight. Newspapers teem with reports of the battle and are eagerly snatched up by a willing populace. Though the initial flow of Canadian volunteers was directed towards the Army, with the intent of fighting in France, news of the RAINBOW’s gallant defeat results in a substantial shift of volunteers towards the Navy. The fervour of the Canadian people is matched by politicians from both the Liberals and the Tories to a lesser extent who advocate the construction of a powerful navy to avenge the RAINBOW and ensure the protection of Canada’s coasts and trade lanes. Politicians bicker back and forth but the weight of public opinion sees the Wartime Emergency Naval Service Bill of 1914 rammed through Parliament.
A compromise between the Tories and the Liberals sees the Naval Service Bill's funds split between developing Canadian shipbuilding and industrial capacity, and providing funds to the Royal Navy. Domestically the Canadians will begin immediately building a small fleet of escorts and coastal submarines designed to scare away enemy raiders and submarines while abroad ships will be purchased to serve under the RN with Canadian crews.
Rather than split their funds among several smaller ships, the Canadians opt to provide funds to purchase a Chilean dreadnought under construction in Great Britain (OTL's HMS Canada). The Admiralty agrees to the Canadian's stipulations and thus the HMCS RAINBOW is commissioned as hundreds of volunteers make their way across the Atlantic to begin training.
Medium Term:
Canada's army takes a backseat in WWI to it's naval endeavors. Canada's small fleet of ASW escorts prove extremely handy when the U-boats start sinking ships while the HMCS Rainbow acquits herself well against the HSF. However the sheer unnecessary cost of maintaining such a vessel sees her shipped back to Chile after WWI.
Cook
Banned
Why double bonus points for this?
It’s not like they’d buy one after WW2 is it?
Or are the extra bonus points for putting them in action?
Ming777
Monthly Donor
Yep, sending them into action.
I actually like the Idea of calling it the HMCS Canada. Its redundant, but so is the HMAS Australia
P.S. I think someone could make quite a good wee TL based on this... The Mann, where are you?
Canada-wanker in chief, reporting for duty.
Like its been said, Canadian BBs are hard to justify. I think dumping the Washington Naval Treaty would be the best bet - it was a godsend to the British, who couldn't easily give up control of the seas but was in economic trouble after the war and would have difficulty keeping up, particularly with the Americans. One could also conceivably butterfly away the Treaty of Versailles or make it a lot less constricting, thus allowing Germany to get back on its feet and arm itself much earlier than in OTL. Add the two together and you see a major problem coming from Britain. The Washington Naval Treaty being junked means the British have to keep up with the Americans, the French and (especially) the Germans, which means they need the G3s/N3s badly. To help justify the cost, the British look to give some of its older warwagons to its colonies. One capital ship serves a British colony (HMAS Australia), but others are soon wanted. Ottawa and Canberra aren't real keen on taking on obsolescent warships, and both want cruisers instead of battleships, noting that they make more sense for their budgets and manpower concerns. Britain does manage to convince them to take on a battlecruiser each, however. The colonies are offered Renown and Repulse, but both countries decide that they can afford, if they are buying one capital ship, to go full up and buy a G3. The Queen Elizabeth class vessels stay in commission in the RN, though in the 1920s these, too, are transferred to the colonies, resulting in battleships commanded by British officers but crewed by men from India, South Africa and Malaya, among others.
Britain makes a surprise in 1927 when they offer to transfer their Caribbean colonies to Canada's jurisdiction. This comes a year after the Balfour Declaration and two after the King-Byng affair, and its a surprise to Prime Minister King. After a long debate, King agrees to the idea. At first, the possessions transferred - including Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados and the British Leeward and Windward Islands - are referred as territories of Canada, a status which remains until they become full provinces in the early 1950s.
The addition of the new colonies provides a need for a stronger Navy, and Canada's G3, HMCS Victorious, is delivered in 1929. It is by a margin the largest vessel ever to serve the RCN, but it is a respect-builder. It spends most of its time in the Atlantic, and but as the vessel can (just barely) fit through the Panama Canal, it makes fairly regular trips to the West Coast. Along with a growing fleet of Leander class cruisers and destroyers (four of the former are built by shipyards in Halifax, Vancouver and Saint John), Canada provides a major contribution to the British Empire's naval power. Britain's idea of battleships to the colonies proves somewhat difficult to make work, as evidenced by a mutiny in India in 1932 where HMS Warspite and HMS Ramillies do not leave their docks in Bombay as a result of Indian crewmen having major grievances with the British.
The rising belligerence of Germany and Italy and the growing power of the United States stretch Britain's capabilities, and Britain retires some of its most obsolescent vessels in the mid-1930s and focuses on better cruisers and destroyers, while the newest vessels - four G3 battlecruisers, Hood, three N3s, Royal Sovereign and Revenge - form the core of Britain's Atlantic fleet. As a result of this, Victorious moves its homeport to Vancouver, as the Royal Navy has the smallest influence in the Pacific.
The battlecruiser and indeed the growing Navy in general create many new jobs in Canada in and of themselves, and with America mired in problems and Canada having a growing sense of independence, it proves to be useful to King's attempts to establish Canada as a nation separate from Britain. Richard Bennett only gets a minority government, which lasts a little more than two years before King returns to power in early 1933. King's work over the 1930s results in Canada pulling out of the depression strongly. Hitler's rise and his subsequent actions convince King that the German leader was a potential threat to the world. World War II breaks out as in OTL, which causes Victorious to be sent back to the Atlantic.
Hood's loss in May 1941 in battle with the Bismarck infuriates many, and Victorious joins the hunt for Bismarck, as does a large portion of the Royal Canadian Navy. Victorious joines Rodney (a N3 ITTL) and King George V (bigger ITTL, with the same 16" triple turrets as the G3s) in finding Bismarck, and all three BBs blast away at the German vessel, which ultimately sinks, but not after nearly a thousand 16" and 18" shots were fired at Bismarck. It is determined that 16" shots disabled the front two turrets, and as King George V was firing at the side and mostly hitting the back, the Admiralty figured that Victorious had shut down half of Bismarck's main battery. The help of heavy cruisers Norfolk and Dorsetshire, as well as Canadian cruiser British Columbia, also helped finish off the Bismarck. The Bismarck sunk and with the US now escorting convoys, Victorious returns to the Pacific.
Victorious is on its way to Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attack it, and Victorious finds USS Enterprise and her group. The United States declares war against Japan, which also sees Canada do so as well. The air attack on Force Z three days after Pearl Harbor succeeds in killing HMS Repulse, which has a British CO but a mostly-Indian crew, and severely damages the Prince of Wales, which makes it to safety. Victorious goes south to reinforce the Allied presence in the West Indies, but they don't get there in time to save to the ABDA fleet under Admiral Doornan, though HMAS Perth and USS Houston escape to Australia, though the former is destroyed alongside its berth in Darwin, Australia, in a March 1942 Japanese raid. Churchill's nightmare of having no allied capital ships in the Pacific is almost true - HMCS Victorious and HMAS Australia (Australia's G3) are the only ones left. But after the loss of Perth and the destruction of the ABDA command, the Australians are pissed off, and offer to back up the attack on Midway, though they weren't able to supply and get out there fast enough.
Victorious got its second battleship-on-battleship fight in November 1942, as Japanese battleships Kirishima and Hiei attacked and disabled American cruisers San Francisco, Helena and Atlanta off Guadalcanal. American Admiral Halsey sent battleships Washington and South Dakota, along with Australia and Victorious, to destroy the Japanese ships. South Dakota took a massive beating against Kirishima, but in the process, Washington and Australia opened up on her, while Victorious spent its time blasting apart Kirishima's escort force, with her and USS Houston between them accounting for nine Japanese destroyers. Cruiser Nagara attempted to tow Kirishima out of danger, and was blown apart by Victorious as a result, and Kirishima capsized early in the morning on November 15. Victorious returned to Canada for a needed refit, which took several months but was done well.
The RCN expanded dramatically during the war. British offers to give the Canadians a second battleship were turned down early in the war, but with Germany's Navy a mess and after Tirpitz' loss, Canada took a second BB, with HMS Duke of York becoming HMCS Adventure, while two light carriers, Warrior and Magnificent, were also sent to the RCN, and the Navy stacked up an additional set of cruisers, in addition to its huge fleet of destroyers, cruisers and frigates. Victorious again joined the Americans for the attack on Saipan, as part of America's mighty Fifth Fleet, participating in the "Great Marianas Turkey Shoot". After Refueling and re-arming, the ship was back in time for Leyte Gulf, and Adventure and Warrior were also on hand, as was HMAS Australia. Adventure and Australia were part of the 7th Fleet's battle line, while Shropshire, Ontario, British Columbia and Jamaica were part of the Right Flank Cruiser set in the trap set up for Nishimura's Center Force. The trap worked perfectly, with the Japanese force blown to bits. But off of Samar, Japanese units caught the Americans by surprise, but despite this, the vessels of the 'Taffy 3', including the legendary destroyer HMCS Haida, stunned the Japanese, making Kurita think he'd run headlong into Halsey's fleet, and he chased off after a report of carriers to his north. Haida itself sank a Japanese light cruiser in the mayhem, and got away with it.
By the end of the war, the RCN had two battleships, two light carriers, twelve light cruisers and nearly 120 destroyers, frigates and corvettes, and was the world's third largest Navy, behind only the RN and USN. The RCN's WWII actions earn it a lot of prestige and respect, and while the forces are drawn down after WWII, they are not totally dismantled as in OTL. Adventure returns to Britain in 1946, and Victorious is decommissioned in 1947. After her wartime exploits, however, a public outcry saves her from the scrapper, and she is made into a museum ship in Halifax, Nova Scotia, opening to the public in 1949. Canada never has another another battleship, and only four of the cruisers are not decommissioned. A proposal to have Victorious recommissioned for the Korean War in 1950 is vetoed on cost grounds, though the RCN sends six cruisers as the basis of its force, which prove to be helpful to the war. Victorious underwent a major restoration in 1974-77, and to this day remains a prominent part of the Halifax waterfront. Adventure did not meet the same fate - she was decommissioned in 1951, and scrapped at Faslane in 1955. Only two British battleships - Vanguard and Rodney - were saved to become museums.
If I may, I think I’ll also have a go with my own mini TL.
1922: Britain, like most of the Great Powers becomes a signatory of the Washington Naval Treaty. However, like the rest of Great Powers, Britain is also already seeking ways of circumventing its terms and in an effort to increase its overall tonnage. In an effort to achieve this, Britain successfully lobbies for her dominions to be counted as separate nations – their military distinct from that of the mother country, arguing that they had come into their own as nations during the war (for the most part, rhetoric on the part of the British) and thus should be treated separately.
1923: In London, a conference on Imperial Defence is called in order to help set out the Empires new defence policy. War exhausted Britain, eager to cut her own military expenditure pushes strongly for Canada and Australia to purchase, or at the very least accept old battleships from the UK. The debate resonates strongly across Canada, with the Conservative’s arguing for Canada to accept these new responsibilities as part of her ever growing position while the Liberals see it as an unnecessary expense. Ultimately, at the end of the year after public pressure grows the Liberals relent and the Parliament accepts the transfer of the Renown Class Battlecrusier HMS Repulse, renaming it HMCS Canada, while Australia accepts her sister, Renown to replace the dated HMAS Australia which was decommissioned in 1921. This allows Britain to complete two of the three remaining unfinished Admiral Class Battlecrusiers.
Canada also accept the transfer of some 6 wartime surplus C & D Class cruisers and two dozen old Admiralty M Class Destroyers build during the war. No new vessels are constructed despite Australia’s purchase of the brand new County Class cruisers.
1929-1934: The Great Depression scuttles plans to modernise the navy and many ships are decommissioned without replacement. HMCS Canada almost comes close to decommission herself and is only saved by national outcry. However, between 1931 and early 1934, she never puts to sea.
1936: With tensions rising in Europe and Asia, British Parliament approaches the Canadians and asks them to match their military build up, ultimately leading to the 1936 Naval Reform Act.
1936-1939: HMCS Canada undergoes modernisation (as does her sister in Australia). The six old wartime Cruisers are replaced 8 modern Town Class Cruisers (Edinburgh subclass) while two dozen new Tribal Class Destroyers are also built. Beginning in 1939 about a dozen or so Black Swan Class Sloops are also ordered although they will not all be delivered until 1942. However, the real centrepieces of the new RCN are the two new Illustrious class aircraft Carriers, HMCS Invincible and HMCS Inflexible.
1939-1945: War erupt in Europe as Germany invades Poland and Canada declares war on the Third Reich shortly after Britain. By 1940 the conflict has taken a turn for the worse and the British army is trapped at Dunkirk with the German army only held at bay by the accurate gunfire of RN and RCN warships. RCN vessels help rescue thousands of trapped soldiers.
For the bulk of the conflict, the RCN works in the Atlantic and Mediterranean taking part in many famous engagements such as the sinking of the Graf Spee, Bismarck and Scharnhorst while HMCS Inflexible partakes in the raid on Taranto. There are, however some losses. HMCS Halifax (Town class) is sunk during the evacuation from Crete with the loss of over 500 of her crew and 300 soldiers when her magazine detonates while HMCS Montreal is torpedoed by a U-Boat 300 miles from Murmansk while escorting an Artic convoy. HMCS Canada also falls victim to the enemy, although not fatally when she strikes a mine while escorting vessels to Malta in 1941. She survives and manages to limp back to Southampton but remains in dry-dock March 1944, after which she lends her big guns to supporting the allied landing on D-Day. Throughout the war, Canada makes a sterling effort in the battle for the Atlantic against the U-Boats, ultimately accounting for nearly a 2/5 of all sunk by the allies.
The war in the pacific was a much more conservative affair, seen more an act of solidarity with America than an actual participation in the war by many Public, parliament and the military (like OTL). Nevertheless, there were several noticeable contributions to the conflict, particularly in the Aleutians during the early war years where RCN vessels often provided the bulk of the naval work while the U.S. concentrated on Island hopping to the south. However, with the winding down of the conflict in Europe during early 1945, large numbers of RCN vessels were redeployed to Asia where they helped partake in military action from Burma to New Guinea to Okinawa. At the end of the conflict, HMCS Ottawa was present in Tokyo harbour the signing of the peace treaty with Japan.
1945+: At the end of the war, the RCN was the third largest navy in the world, behind only Britain and the U.S. and consisted of 1 Battlecrusier, 9 Cruisers, 4 Aircraft carriers, 30 submarines and over 120 destroyers, frigates and corvettes. Nevertheless, the end of the war brought about an inevitable down sizing in the navy. HMCS Canada was the first to go, being placed into reserve in 1946 before being scrapped at Faslane in 1949 and by the end of the 50’s, all but 2 of her Cruisers remained. Nevertheless, all was not bleak. Canada did replace and modernise. In the early 50’s her old wartime Tribal and Battle class destroyers were phased out in favour of new Daring Class while her Black Swan class sloops were replaced by the indigenous St Laurent Class frigates and her old Illustrious carriers were replaced by the countries first home built capital ship, the Audacious Class HMCS Canada in 1954.
Canada would go on to play an important role throughout the Cold War with the RCN playing a prominent part in Korea, Suez, Cyprus and the Second Russian Civil War.
Russell
1922: Britain, like most of the Great Powers becomes a signatory of the Washington Naval Treaty. However, like the rest of Great Powers, Britain is also already seeking ways of circumventing its terms and in an effort to increase its overall tonnage. In an effort to achieve this, Britain successfully lobbies for her dominions to be counted as separate nations – their military distinct from that of the mother country, arguing that they had come into their own as nations during the war (for the most part, rhetoric on the part of the British) and thus should be treated separately.
1923: In London, a conference on Imperial Defence is called in order to help set out the Empires new defence policy. War exhausted Britain, eager to cut her own military expenditure pushes strongly for Canada and Australia to purchase, or at the very least accept old battleships from the UK. The debate resonates strongly across Canada, with the Conservative’s arguing for Canada to accept these new responsibilities as part of her ever growing position while the Liberals see it as an unnecessary expense. Ultimately, at the end of the year after public pressure grows the Liberals relent and the Parliament accepts the transfer of the Renown Class Battlecrusier HMS Repulse, renaming it HMCS Canada, while Australia accepts her sister, Renown to replace the dated HMAS Australia which was decommissioned in 1921. This allows Britain to complete two of the three remaining unfinished Admiral Class Battlecrusiers.
Canada also accept the transfer of some 6 wartime surplus C & D Class cruisers and two dozen old Admiralty M Class Destroyers build during the war. No new vessels are constructed despite Australia’s purchase of the brand new County Class cruisers.
1929-1934: The Great Depression scuttles plans to modernise the navy and many ships are decommissioned without replacement. HMCS Canada almost comes close to decommission herself and is only saved by national outcry. However, between 1931 and early 1934, she never puts to sea.
1936: With tensions rising in Europe and Asia, British Parliament approaches the Canadians and asks them to match their military build up, ultimately leading to the 1936 Naval Reform Act.
1936-1939: HMCS Canada undergoes modernisation (as does her sister in Australia). The six old wartime Cruisers are replaced 8 modern Town Class Cruisers (Edinburgh subclass) while two dozen new Tribal Class Destroyers are also built. Beginning in 1939 about a dozen or so Black Swan Class Sloops are also ordered although they will not all be delivered until 1942. However, the real centrepieces of the new RCN are the two new Illustrious class aircraft Carriers, HMCS Invincible and HMCS Inflexible.
1939-1945: War erupt in Europe as Germany invades Poland and Canada declares war on the Third Reich shortly after Britain. By 1940 the conflict has taken a turn for the worse and the British army is trapped at Dunkirk with the German army only held at bay by the accurate gunfire of RN and RCN warships. RCN vessels help rescue thousands of trapped soldiers.
For the bulk of the conflict, the RCN works in the Atlantic and Mediterranean taking part in many famous engagements such as the sinking of the Graf Spee, Bismarck and Scharnhorst while HMCS Inflexible partakes in the raid on Taranto. There are, however some losses. HMCS Halifax (Town class) is sunk during the evacuation from Crete with the loss of over 500 of her crew and 300 soldiers when her magazine detonates while HMCS Montreal is torpedoed by a U-Boat 300 miles from Murmansk while escorting an Artic convoy. HMCS Canada also falls victim to the enemy, although not fatally when she strikes a mine while escorting vessels to Malta in 1941. She survives and manages to limp back to Southampton but remains in dry-dock March 1944, after which she lends her big guns to supporting the allied landing on D-Day. Throughout the war, Canada makes a sterling effort in the battle for the Atlantic against the U-Boats, ultimately accounting for nearly a 2/5 of all sunk by the allies.
The war in the pacific was a much more conservative affair, seen more an act of solidarity with America than an actual participation in the war by many Public, parliament and the military (like OTL). Nevertheless, there were several noticeable contributions to the conflict, particularly in the Aleutians during the early war years where RCN vessels often provided the bulk of the naval work while the U.S. concentrated on Island hopping to the south. However, with the winding down of the conflict in Europe during early 1945, large numbers of RCN vessels were redeployed to Asia where they helped partake in military action from Burma to New Guinea to Okinawa. At the end of the conflict, HMCS Ottawa was present in Tokyo harbour the signing of the peace treaty with Japan.
1945+: At the end of the war, the RCN was the third largest navy in the world, behind only Britain and the U.S. and consisted of 1 Battlecrusier, 9 Cruisers, 4 Aircraft carriers, 30 submarines and over 120 destroyers, frigates and corvettes. Nevertheless, the end of the war brought about an inevitable down sizing in the navy. HMCS Canada was the first to go, being placed into reserve in 1946 before being scrapped at Faslane in 1949 and by the end of the 50’s, all but 2 of her Cruisers remained. Nevertheless, all was not bleak. Canada did replace and modernise. In the early 50’s her old wartime Tribal and Battle class destroyers were phased out in favour of new Daring Class while her Black Swan class sloops were replaced by the indigenous St Laurent Class frigates and her old Illustrious carriers were replaced by the countries first home built capital ship, the Audacious Class HMCS Canada in 1954.
Canada would go on to play an important role throughout the Cold War with the RCN playing a prominent part in Korea, Suez, Cyprus and the Second Russian Civil War.
Russell
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David S Poepoe
Banned
I could easily see the US using the same arguement and having a good portion of its older battlewagons given over to newly formed 'state navies', like California, Texas, New York, South Carolina, Oregon, etc. The French and Italians can do the same.
It's possible but I think such an idea would be a much thougher sell to the international comunity. The states are integrated parts of the U.S. where'as the Dominions are not integrated with Britain and nominally serperate nations, made de facto after the 1931 Statute of Westminster. France could possibly do it with some of it's colonies, maybe Algeria but it would have little effect upon the overall size of their armed forces.
Russell
