Protect and Survive: A Timeline

[JN1]

The DAA was not a major department of State, or at least that was my impression anyway, which rules out one of the more important RGHQs. We can also rule out Scotland, Wales and NI as they'd be under their respective departments.
A plausible post would be as Regional Commissioner for the North-East, so effectivley the Controller could be reporting to him, or through County to him. OTOH he might have been unlucky and been one of the ministers required to stay behind in London.

Anybody else think that discussing Yes Minister post apocalypse is just a bit weird?

[ivfl]

What do you think is the biggest city in Europe to be completely unharmed in the war?No nukes no fighting no nothing,doesn't include possible riotiong and unrest due to shortages after the war that pretty much is a given but no direct or indirect hits from nukes or major fighting.We should exclude from the list of survivors cities which may be unharmed in the immediate aftermath but still affected by fallout meaning a place like Malmo Sweden which in theory should be unhit would still be screwed because of its proximity to Copenhagen which would have received multiple strikes.I'm talking the biggest city which doesn't have to fear anything more than food shortages and refugees no significant fallout or even more strikes.

[LeoXiao]

Looking at the map, I can't imagine that any European city with more than 200,000 inhabitants would survive targeting with at least one weapon, so while a few of these would survive due to inaccuracy or the warhead having been targeted not at the city itself but a nearby locale (such as an airport), it is difficult to say which specific towns would survive. My best guess would some either somewhere in the Balkans, Italy, Spain, or Scandinavia.

EDIT: What the hell am I talking about? Of course the biggest remaining city would be Zürich, since we've confirmed that it was never hit.

[Dartz]

Continental Europe?

There's a good chance most of the Irish republic escaped a dose of terminal sunshine by virtue of being tactically insignificant. There's not really that much here in the 80's to actually be worth bombing, if you think about it. Why waste a missile?

[Falkenburg]

I have my doubts about that.
If the Soviets were going to hit Britain it makes sense to lob a few Irelands' way while you're at it.

Although, IIRC, Shannon had an agreement with Aeroflot (Slots or fuelling or something ), so maybe the Brits or the Americans decided to do the job themselves.

Either way, with all the missiles flying around (and the all but inevitable flare up in the North) I can't see the Republic getting off too easily.

Falkenburg

[Hörnla]

Originally Posted by JN1

Anybody else think that discussing Yes Minister post apocalypse is just a bit weird?

Does nuclear apocalypse count as streamlining administration?

[Macragge1]

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Not to come across as an ingrate but I was hoping for more.

Even so, another sterling effort Macragge. I hope the Librarian gets away.

I have a soft spot for homicidal bibliophiles. As long as it's in a 'good' cause.

Falkenburg

Apologies for this one not being longer; to be honest, it was one of the more troublesome episodes to write - it's a lot easier to write an update that leads up to a big set piece; this one is more the type that moves the story along and gets the players in position - naturally, this requires a different touch.

I'm glad you enjoyed what was offered though; I can't reveal yet whether or not this bibliophilia is for a good or bad cause, or even for a cause at all, but stay tuned!

Originally Posted by Agentdark

Red...White...Green

Italy

Originally Posted by Lemon flavoured

Seems plausible.

As to the Librarian and her group, as I said before she reminds me of my ex-girlfriend, which says something about my ex lol. It'll be interesting to see where they end up (assuming they survive).

It's a nice idea, but you're giving me too much credit - it's just the security forces going through their illumination flares at random, with a view to lighting up the area rather than sending any signals. The Looter, having become a rather odd character, is rather enjoying the light show, and will continue to until it starts to get threatening.

Originally Posted by 037771

Or Irish, if the Looter isn't devoting all of his attention.

Flawless update, Macragge!

Very very glad that you liked it, thanks!

Originally Posted by stateless_englishman

Germans (or perhaps remanant NATO or Warsaw Pact troops?)! I can't imagine things are as nice for them as they are for the British, so it will be interesting when we find out more about what remains of Germany. Is there still a war on (i.e. is there actual fighting somewhere in the world)?

We'll see!

There's a war on in theory; the big battlefield of Europe is a write-off, though, of course, and elsewhere, few surviving units are able to concentrate on staying alive, let alone continuing a war for nothing.

Saying that, there's still the occasional lone ship that goes missing, and the fear that follow-up nuclear strikes will occur is a growing one within CHANTICLEER.

Originally Posted by Linkwerk

Macragge1, I have to say, I'm really continuously impressed by how you create this sense of the "new normal" being, well, normal, all the while not pulling a single punch about how awful and horrific the new world is. Abandoned newspapers on a kitchen table, rusted cars by the side of the road, a nameless, probably cancer-ridden figure in MOPP gear viewed ultra-enlarged on grainy film- I have a feeling for this place you've created, and it's absolutely nightmarish.

Originally Posted by JN1

Fantastic bit of work with this one. I love the various post-apocalyptic images in this chapter.

I do wonder what the Swedes would hope to learn from a Vulcan? It's mainly '50s and '60s technology

Thanks for the compliments - as I said before, I had a surprising amount of trouble writing this installment - it's more of a plot-advancing one than a big extravaganza; this is why I chose to fill it full of imagery, given not a lot actually happens. To my mind, the big hitter in this chapter was meant to be the newspaper headline, but this understandably has less impact than a battle or an atomic explosion.

With regards to the Swede's Vulcan, Jan - whilst we can be sure now that the aircraft was fairly dated, the Swedish authorities in '84 know the only way to be sure of this is to have a good, deep look; given all of the modifications that got bolted on to the airframe over the years (espec. the low level flight stuff and new electronics and ECM that, and I'll have to check my Osprey on this, turned up in the '70s) and the fact that the 'plane was always seen as quite futuristic and advanced even when it was retired meant that I reckoned the Swedes would be interested in taking a look, given that this was the only chance they would ever get, and given that they think they can get away with it.

Originally Posted by Dunois

Great update Macragge1 as usual!

Thanks very much; I looked through a lot of input from down-thread for this one, especially yours and Sam. R's contributions from a few pages ago; suffice to say they've been very helpful in trying to piece together a continuing narrative.

Originally Posted by JjeeporCreepor

Another excellent update - the combination of dry, postapocalyptic detail and human drama continues to be gripping. I could be wrong, but the flares strike as pretty ominous indeed. I imagine the Librarian and company will be getting pretty short shrift if and when the authorities run them to ground.

Incidentally, will we hear more about the detectives down in Portsmouth and their murder investigation?

I'm glad that the 'detail and drama' is still hitting the spot; trying to complement one with the other was the idea with this timeline from the get go. If our friends in the village do get caught, one can't imagine they'll get much leniency.

The Portsmouth strand is continuing - I just had this one in hand first so jinked the traditional one-on/one-off order.

Thanks for the kind words.

Originally Posted by Hörnla

I very much appreciated your take on "Cannibalism", especially the way you evoke pictures of a more apocalyptic setting and then what you describe is an important part of the reconstruction effort.

An absolutely plausible policy in my eyes and absolutely plausibly described concerning its shortcomings.

On a side note...might Sir Humphrey Appleby be part of Chanticleer?

I'm glad you liked the take on 'cannibalism'; it's all based on real planning, sourced mostly from War Plan UK, which, whilst very political, still paints an accurate picture of a lot of civil defence planning (or, often, the lack of it.)

The shortcomings of such a plan aren't really touched upon in the book - which is strange, as the author often pulls no punches with his criticisms - but a cursory look at the average post-war world gives one an understanding of the difference between the plans made and the ability to carry them out.

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Looking at the map, I can't imagine that any European city with more than 200,000 inhabitants would survive targeting with at least one weapon, so while a few of these would survive due to inaccuracy or the warhead having been targeted not at the city itself but a nearby locale (such as an airport), it is difficult to say which specific towns would survive. My best guess would some either somewhere in the Balkans, Italy, Spain, or Scandinavia.

EDIT: What the hell am I talking about? Of course the biggest remaining city would be Zürich, since we've confirmed that it was never hit.

You're right. Still, there's the obvious problem that some cities that lie miles and miles away from bomb-sites could still find themselves in just as much distress given the collapse that has occured.

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

I have my doubts about that.
If the Soviets were going to hit Britain it makes sense to lob a few Irelands' way while you're at it.

Although, IIRC, Shannon had an agreement with Aeroflot (Slots or fuelling or something ), so maybe the Brits or the Americans decided to do the job themselves.

Either way, with all the missiles flying around (and the all but inevitable flare up in the North) I can't see the Republic getting off too easily.

Falkenburg

There's a high chance the Soviets would target Eire; a total nuclear exchange had a healthy dose of Gottdamerung about it; whilst not a member of NATO, Eire was a democracy and was certainly leaning towards the West; in Soviet targeters' eyes a healthy Ireland could pose a big problem post-war.

The thing you mention about Aeroflot is interesting; whilst it's possible that Ireland had some sort of deal with this 'civilian' (albeit Soviet therefore state-run) airline, I can't see it going any further for fear of antagonising their neighbours. Still, I could be wrong. Even so, I doubt the UK would be too keen on nuking Eire, given its close proximity both to the mainland (even if the fallout, in general, would head away to the West) and more importantly, to Ulster.

[JN1]

Originally Posted by Hörnla

Does nuclear apocalypse count as streamlining administration?

Is one of the few ways of cutting down on the Civil Service.

Seriously though knowing how big the service is in reality the figure Sir Humphrey gives for staffing in the DAA would make it the largest department in the government. IIRC he said there were something like 22,000 Civil Servants in the DAA; at the time of the show there were something like 500,000 in total. We're down to 471,000 as of 2011 and falling.

[JN1]

IIRC Aeroflot had a fuel depot at Shannon.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when the Swedes take a look at the Vulcan and perhaps realise that it is not quite a futuristic as they maybe imagined.
I know what you mean about finding some chapters easier to write than others. Big set pieces are easy to write, but it's the little, subtle character led bits that are more satisfying.

[XLII]

I just burned trough the hundred-odd pages in a little over 8 hours of straight reading
The only thing I have to say on the story is: WOW! Thank you Macragge1!
It is very, very good (and dark, and thrilling) - I'll probably read it again (for the things I missed).

Anyway - two things:

1. Is there a way to get a story-only-thead? I'd even crawl the thread and compile a document for you.
2. What do we have to give/bribe/inject you with to get more updates(I'd even row across the (/)& pond in a 1x1m dinghy powered by a spoon under nuclear bombardement for it (should you have been born/be currently resident on the British Isles, it would be much apprechiated) ?

[ivfl]

What do you think happened to the soviet leadership?Did they survive the war or not?And if so what would they be up to?

[Tovarich]

Originally Posted by JN1

Is one of the few ways of cutting down on the Civil Service.

Seriously though knowing how big the service is in reality the figure Sir Humphrey gives for staffing in the DAA would make it the largest department in the government. IIRC he said there were something like 22,000 Civil Servants in the DAA; at the time of the show there were something like 500,000 in total. We're down to 471,000 as of 2011 and falling.

Had they tried harder, they could have prevented the nuclear strikes on the UK by implementing baffling import regulations onto Soviet WMDs

[Dartz]

Originally Posted by JN1

IIRC Aeroflot had a fuel depot at Shannon.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when the Swedes take a look at the Vulcan and perhaps realise that it is not quite a futuristic as they maybe imagined.
I know what you mean about finding some chapters easier to write than others. Big set pieces are easy to write, but it's the little, subtle character led bits that are more satisfying.

Everyone did. It was the village bicycle of airports for the longest time. So either both sides wanted to blow it into oblivion to deny it to the other, or they left it alone .

It's also miles away from civilisation in the bottom end of Co. Clare.

But it's really immaterial to the whole thing, I only registered so I could read this story and didn't exactly intend to post.

[ivfl]

One thing which would make this timeline even sadder is the fact that Metallica would never be big here.Ironic considering their angry lyrics would be suitable in this world.No chance at a Moscow concert in 1991 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=551_hC414UY

[Archangel]

Nice update!

It's good to see signs of more surviving nations in Europe.

[modelcitizen]

Originally Posted by XLII

I just burned trough the hundred-odd pages in a little over 8 hours of straight reading
The only thing I have to say on the story is: WOW! Thank you Macragge1!
It is very, very good (and dark, and thrilling) - I'll probably read it again (for the things I missed).

Anyway - two things:

1. Is there a way to get a story-only-thead? I'd even crawl the thread and compile a document for you.
2. What do we have to give/bribe/inject you with to get more updates(I'd even row across the (/)& pond in a 1x1m dinghy powered by a spoon under nuclear bombardement for it (should you have been born/be currently resident on the British Isles, it would be much apprechiated) ?

I just wanted to provide a boisterous echo for your enthusiasm.


McCragge, as for the last update, "Guten tag!"

so often, the hint, the wisp of a rumor, is so much more powerful than a rote recitation, in my humble view anyhow.

mind you, any and all details you want to supply are incredibly welcome! I'm a greedy omnivore here.

consider your lovely work encouraged in a constructive manner!

[JN1]

Originally Posted by ivfl

One thing which would make this timeline even sadder is the fact that Metallica would never be big here.Ironic considering their angry lyrics would be suitable in this world.No chance at a Moscow concert in 1991 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=551_hC414UY

Things aren't all bad then.

[TRoehl]

Taking a look at the map, unless I'm missing something, a then pretty young Gordon Brown could be a survivor as could Tony Blair (some of the few in non-urban seats). Both are then newbies elected to Dumfermline East and Sedgefield in the Labour wipeout of '84.

[Lord Brisbane]

Taking a look at the map, unless I'm missing something, a then pretty young Gordon Brown could be a survivor

I think the world in this timeline has suffered enough already.

[JN1]

Originally Posted by TRoehl

Taking a look at the map, unless I'm missing something, a then pretty young Gordon Brown could be a survivor as could Tony Blair (some of the few in non-urban seats). Both are then newbies elected to Dumfermline East and Sedgefield in the Labour wipeout of '84.

Dunfermline is a pile of radioactive ash. It's well within the firezone of the warheads that destroyed HMNB Rosyth and the NATO Maritime H.Q at Pitreavie.
Gordon Brown's home, then as now, was North Queensferry, which will be only about a mile from the Rosyth Ground Zero. It, him, the two Forth Bridges and everybody else in that part of Fife are just not there any more.