Go Back   Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Discussion: After 1900

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 18th, 2010, 11:56 PM
flkndz_central flkndz_central is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Sarum
Posts: 134
Nazi Technological Advances

Say for some reason WW2 stops in 1942 when Nazi Germany is at its zenith. Then a cold war of sorts breaks out and the great powers enter an arms race. All countries keep their 1942 boundaries and there is no actual war.

Anyway how does Nazi technology advance? I am looking for realistic advances in panzers, howitzers/artillery, cruise missiles, guns/rifles, jets/planes, ships/subs, helicopters/autogyros/airships, nukes.

This is not ASB, I want a proper discussion with realistic weapons no lasers, or Wunderwaffes or anything like that.

Also here is a badly copied and edited map of Nazi Germany. Thanks
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 19th, 2010, 12:41 AM
PyrrhusVictorius PyrrhusVictorius is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 34
So you want to freeze time and then have it progress from its moment of seizure? Germany would have to capture Moscow and Stalingrad and the US would not just leave Japan be after Pearl Harbour. So it would have to be total victory for the Axis in Europe and Asia repectively and then have a Cold War follow...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 19th, 2010, 12:49 AM
flkndz_central flkndz_central is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Sarum
Posts: 134
No I just to have a surviving Nazi Germany, I am not really bothered how it survives, just how the actual technology develops after the world has moved into a cold war with Nazi Germany. Get it ????
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 19th, 2010, 12:59 AM
Tallest Skil Tallest Skil is offline
Terrible At Everything
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by flkndz_central View Post
No I just to have a surviving Nazi Germany, I am not really bothered how it survives
Yes, so you would NEED a Nazi victory to get the Allies to give in to any German terms of land conquest. You can't have borders just freeze without ASB intervention.

As for tech, think DPRK-style oppression in Großdeutschland and maybe slightly higher levels of tech in the rest of the world as a result of the continued Cold War.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 19th, 2010, 01:14 AM
Don Lardo Don Lardo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by flkndz_central View Post
Say for some reason WW2 stops in 1942 when Nazi Germany is at its zenith. Then a cold war of sorts breaks out and the great powers enter an arms race. All countries keep their 1942 boundaries and there is no actual war. Anyway how does Nazi technology advance?

As the others have already pointed out, you cannot ignore how Nazi Germany either stalemated or won the war because that will effect the technological progress Nazi Germany makes after the war ends.

That being said, check out this thread for a sober examination of any potential tech development for the Nazis.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 19th, 2010, 04:11 AM
cclittle cclittle is offline
cclittle
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northwood Ohio
Posts: 271
Build a Better U-Boat

Improvements in subermarines. The snorkel could be tested and improved. U-Boats that could stay under water longer, batteries that would stay charged longer. ( I could use those in mt cammera.) Jet technology could be refined. It dosen't take a rocket scientest to figure thay would remain interested in rocketry. Working ICBM'S. Nazi space program?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 21st, 2010, 08:59 AM
shanafona shanafona is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 19
A greater mechanisation of the German Army with definitely a more rational tank programme; For example they may have re-examined the Panther programme and used the extra time to refine it and develop a reliable diesel engine for it.

By 1945 they had built prototypes of fully tracked apc which looked similar to the SDKFZ 251

And for infantry development the MP44/STG44 would have been a definte
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 21st, 2010, 10:34 AM
brokenman brokenman is offline
Kick-Lord of Mt. Invulnerable
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: in High Places
Posts: 1000 or more
Nazi Germany will strengthen its rocket program, and maybe its space program. Germany will be the first nation to have jet engines, or even nuclear weaponry. Not to mention the birth of the assault rifle, and the application of helicopters into military service.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke Cannon
"Behold. The Bringer of Light!"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 21st, 2010, 11:18 AM
Astrodragon Astrodragon is offline
Coffee-seeking Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK - Oxfordshire
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenman View Post
Nazi Germany will strengthen its rocket program, and maybe its space program. Germany will be the first nation to have jet engines, or even nuclear weaponry. Not to mention the birth of the assault rifle, and the application of helicopters into military service.
My word, and no doubt be eating 3 shredded wheat a day...
Nonsense

Britain was already ahead in practical jet engines, even without US involvement
Similarly, the US/UK nuclear programs were way ahead of Germany

Practical helicopters arent going to happen until usable turbines are built. See above.

Given some sort of freeze in the hot war, do you REALLY think the USA and the Empire are just going to sit back and let Germany get ahead? The opposite will happen.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 21st, 2010, 12:17 PM
brokenman brokenman is offline
Kick-Lord of Mt. Invulnerable
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: in High Places
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrodragon View Post
My word, and no doubt be eating 3 shredded wheat a day...
Nonsense

Britain was already ahead in practical jet engines, even without US involvement
Similarly, the US/UK nuclear programs were way ahead of Germany

Practical helicopters arent going to happen until usable turbines are built. See above.

Given some sort of freeze in the hot war, do you REALLY think the USA and the Empire are just going to sit back and let Germany get ahead? The opposite will happen.


IOTL Nazi Germany's nuclear program was behind those of the US because Nazi purge depleted them of their top nuclear physicists namely Einstein and others. But in military application of jet engines, first was the Nazi Germany, namely the Messerschmitt Me 262. Helicopter application was for Nazi Germany again, as the first functional helicopter, the Focke-Wulf Fw 6 was was flown in 1936. It's descendant, the Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 Drache, was the first helicopter to attain production status and was used in WWII.

Even in an event of a war with the USA or IJ, the superior technology of Nazi Germany will prevail. And with the industrial facilities of Europe, no doubt Nazi Germany will produce equipment superior than the Tiger 2, than the Stuka, or even the Bismarck. They may even build the famed Landkreuzers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke Cannon
"Behold. The Bringer of Light!"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 21st, 2010, 12:41 PM
Stephen Stephen is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1000 or more
With Von Braun and all I will bet they would be the first into orbit and the first on the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 21st, 2010, 12:42 PM
ComradeTovarich ComradeTovarich is offline
Not-so-able Seaman
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pulau Ujong
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenman View Post
Even in an event of a war with the USA or IJ, the superior technology of Nazi Germany will prevail. And with the industrial facilities of Europe, no doubt Nazi Germany will produce equipment superior than the Tiger 2, than the Stuka, or even the Bismarck. They may even build the famed Landkreuzers.
Assuming that the Allies also develop the ancestors of the cruise missile, the Landkreuzer would probably be the first thing they'd use it on. It's big, and it has shitty anti-aircraft systems that wouldn't count for shit when a missile comes screaming in. The Germans are better off making more jet interceptors and Tiger II tanks than blowing it all on the wasteful Landkreuzer. The reason why the project was cancelled not only because it took up too much resources, but also because it cannot be put to practical use on the battlefields of Europe, where it's weight crushes bridges, grinds roads into dust and wrecks entire towns just by moving alone.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 21st, 2010, 01:21 PM
Astrodragon Astrodragon is offline
Coffee-seeking Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK - Oxfordshire
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenman View Post
IOTL Nazi Germany's nuclear program was behind those of the US because Nazi purge depleted them of their top nuclear physicists namely Einstein and others. But in military application of jet engines, first was the Nazi Germany, namely the Messerschmitt Me 262. Helicopter application was for Nazi Germany again, as the first functional helicopter, the Focke-Wulf Fw 6 was was flown in 1936. It's descendant, the Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 Drache, was the first helicopter to attain production status and was used in WWII.

Even in an event of a war with the USA or IJ, the superior technology of Nazi Germany will prevail. And with the industrial facilities of Europe, no doubt Nazi Germany will produce equipment superior than the Tiger 2, than the Stuka, or even the Bismarck. They may even build the famed Landkreuzers.
Do you actually know anything about the technical history of the period?

German jet engines were crude, short lived and a dead end.
Ah, so IF all the scientsist who have ALREADY defected didn't, they MAY have had a better bomb program. Can you not see the problems with this statement??

Helicopters (prototypes) were flown all over in the 30's. Germany did indeed have the first production version, but you arent reading what I said. Until a viable gas turbine is perfected, helicopters aren't really practical, because they lack the power/weight the jet turbine gives them. Pretty toys, yes. Useful in a military sense, no.

Germanies tech was superior to that of the allies. Really?? Again, you seem to have no idea as to the realities of tech R&D before and during WW2, especially by 1944. Basically the allies didn't need to introduce cutting edge stuf when either what they had was as good or better, AND it would screw up their production line. For example, the allies didnt need a rocket program as their bombers were a far more cost effective way of landing explosives on the enemy.
For a good example of allied vs german research on a topic both sides had a big interest in being in front, look at Radar.

Mmm, the industrial facilities they...did basically nothing with in OTL....
The industrial facilities that are needed for the controled countries own use, unless you are going to lock them down in a wartime mode. Which will do WONDERS for the copperation and sabotage, wont it...

There have been plenty of threads on these issues, please read up on some of them
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:11 AM
Don Lardo Don Lardo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenman View Post
IOTL Nazi Germany's nuclear program was behind those of the US because Nazi purge depleted them of their top nuclear physicists namely Einstein and others.

Einstein's involvement with the Manhattan Project was essentially limited to signing a letter written by Wigner, Szilard, and Teller which convinced FDR to begin the program.

As for the rest of your post, it's as well informed as your statement concerning Einstein. This topic is a much repeated one and the search function will turn up numerous threads with actual information rather than oft refuted "common knowledge".
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 07:16 AM
the day war broke out the day war broke out is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenman View Post
Germany will be the first nation to have jet engines
This doesn't tie in with the stated POD date for the following reasons:

The turbo patented in 1930 by Frank Whittle, England (actual patent grant April 1931).
Thus the patent details enters the public domain 1931.
The German Embassy in London despatches copies of the patent to Germany 1932.
Copies of the patent to Goettingen, Heinkel, Junkers, Brunswick and elsewhere.
Von Ohain begins to study the possible application of the internal combustion jet to aeronautics in 1934.

Herbert Wagner at Junkers and Ohain at Heinkel begins turbo jet development April 1936.
A jet-engined Heinkel He 178, developed from von Ohain's work, flies in Germany on 27 August 1939 - but the flight is not a great success.
Britain: 15 May 1941 sees the first test flight of a Gloster E28/39 powered by Whittle's jet engine.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 07:32 AM
Sausage Sausage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 65
Question German nuclear program

IOTL Nazi Germany's nuclear program was behind those of the US because Nazi purge depleted them of their top nuclear physicists namely Einstein and others.

I've heard this a lot but I think it might be an urban legend. The German nuclear program just wasn't given as much priority as the Manhattan project. From my reading they also made a couple of fundamental mistakes which held them back - for example a misunderstood early experiment led them to reject the use of graphite in the reactor core.

Is quite a fascinating subject the german nuclear program, I have read up on it but must admit my sources are somewhat dubious [David Irving "Virus House' and even more dodgy Joseph P Farrel "Reich of the black sun"]
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 08:45 AM
ferrosol ferrosol is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Grand Duchy of Greater Yorkshire
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sausage View Post
IOTL Nazi Germany's nuclear program was behind those of the US because Nazi purge depleted them of their top nuclear physicists namely Einstein and others.

I've heard this a lot but I think it might be an urban legend. The German nuclear program just wasn't given as much priority as the Manhattan project. From my reading they also made a couple of fundamental mistakes which held them back - for example a misunderstood early experiment led them to reject the use of graphite in the reactor core.

Is quite a fascinating subject the german nuclear program, I have read up on it but must admit my sources are somewhat dubious [David Irving "Virus House' and even more dodgy Joseph P Farrel "Reich of the black sun"]
I heard that the problem was not so much the lack of funding but that there were eight separate projects to build an atomic bomb. This included one funded by the German Post office of all people. Of course this is symptom and not disease of the way the German government was run with Hitler's pathological fear of being overthrown from below resulting in him breaking up potential unified power bases.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thande View Post
He sees UFOs in positions of power?

I wouldn't have thought the flying saucers would fit behind the desks.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 09:13 AM
Shimbo Shimbo is offline
The Whisper of Death
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vemork, Occupied Norway
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sausage View Post
IOTL Nazi Germany's nuclear program was behind those of the US because Nazi purge depleted them of their top nuclear physicists namely Einstein and others.

I've heard this a lot but I think it might be an urban legend. The German nuclear program just wasn't given as much priority as the Manhattan project. From my reading they also made a couple of fundamental mistakes which held them back - for example a misunderstood early experiment led them to reject the use of graphite in the reactor core.

Is quite a fascinating subject the german nuclear program, I have read up on it but must admit my sources are somewhat dubious [David Irving "Virus House' and even more dodgy Joseph P Farrel "Reich of the black sun"]
The best source IMO on all the atomic bomb projects is "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes.

The fundamental issue for the German's project was that Heisenberg's concept of a bomb (as an out of control reactor) was fatally flawed.

The key event in the creation of the Manhattan Project and hence the atomic bomb wasn't, contrary to popular opinion, the Einstein-Szillard memo to FDR, which was written in 1939.

However, Szillard (actual author of the 'Einstein letter' made the same mistake as Heisenberg (the letter describes delivering the bomb by ship as it would be so big).

The letter resulted in the S-1 Uranium Committee, which basically did very little and had a tiny budget. This was partly due to the misunderstanding that tons of Uranium 235 would be required, and hence the project was not very practical.

The actual genesis of the bomb was the British (in fact Otto Frisch and Rudolf Peierls working for the British), who correctly appreciated that the amount of Uranium 235 required was far less than previously thought (pounds rather than tons).

In late 1940, the British MAUD committee produced a report outlining the feasibility of the bomb, which was sent to the Americans but ignored. The British started their "Tube Alloys" project but basically couldn't afford to prioritise it.

The key event was the visit of Mark Oliphant of the MAUD committee to the USA in 1941, where he impressed on the US scientists the feasibility and urgency of manufacturing the bomb. After these meetings, in December 1941 Vannevar Bush created the Office of Scientific Research and Development, after that the Manhattan Project took off and eclipsed the British project, which was eventually (1943) folded into it.

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein-Szilárd_letter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-1_Uranium_Committee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisch-Peierls_memorandum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAUD_Committee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_Alloys
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:01 AM
Sausage Sausage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 65
Plane Prototypes...

Cheers. Interesting stuff about nuclear programme, will read up on your sources.

To go back to the original topic of this thread, heres quite a good website about WW2 German aeroplane prototypes. If you've not seen it before and have any interest in WW2 planes you'll love it:

http://www.luft46.com/
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:08 AM
Cockroach Cockroach is offline
Ekman Spiral
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hobart-Town, Van Diemen's Land, New Holland
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sausage View Post
Napkinwaffen alert!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespitron 6000 View Post
Yes, there certainly is an "I'm marching off to fight in the Seven Years' War..." tone to it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.