What if Dracula converted to Islam?

twovultures

Donor
In modern Romania, Vlad Tepes III is revered as a national hero who stopped the Ottoman advance. However, what if he had converted to Islam and fought alongside rather than against the Ottomans? How far could they have conquered into Eastern Europe with him at their side? And would more Balkan territory allow the Ottomans to create a grain-producing and coal producing province which could increase their empire's power? Any thoughts?
 
Cuāuhtemōc

Cuāuhtemōc

Banned
twovultures said:
In modern Romania, Vlad Tepes III is revered as a national hero who stopped the Ottoman advance. However, what if he had converted to Islam and fought alongside rather than against the Ottomans? How far could they have conquered into Eastern Europe with him at their side? And would more Balkan territory allow the Ottomans to create a grain-producing and coal producing province which could increase their empire's power? Any thoughts?
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Doesn't mean he'll side with the Ottomans. I'm sure he would continue to launch raids against the Ottomans.
 

Don Grey

Banned
Even if he does convert and side with the ottomans if he starts impaling people willy nilly like that they will hang him for unusual cruelty. Think what you want about ottomans and islamic law but theres only so much it could stand before it hangs for tyranny.
 
iori

iori

Tat would be interesting, perhaps his brother (one of the Ottoman Sultan's lovers) could convince him.
 

Teleology

Banned
Didn't just converting from Eastern Orthodox to Catholicism for his Hungarian backers cause him massive religious-guilt related personality problems and turn his country against him?

I can't imagine what becoming Muslim would do, considering he swore his life to fighting the Turks.

His brother, who I think was kidnapped or exchanged as a hostage to the Ottomans, grew up Ottomanized though; so maybe you can do something with that (switch the two, or have his brother convert him or something).
 

Janprimus

Teleology said:
Didn't just converting from Eastern Orthodox to Catholicism for his Hungarian backers cause him massive religious-guilt related personality problems and turn his country against him?

I can't imagine what becoming Muslim would do, considering he swore his life to fighting the Turks.

His brother, who I think was kidnapped or exchanged as a hostage to the Ottomans, grew up Ottomanized though; so maybe you can do something with that (switch the two, or have his brother convert him or something).
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OTL Vlad was also sent to the court, but because of his behaviour he was imprisoned at a rather young age, that certainly didn't make him like the Ottomans more...
 
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Finn

You'd have to go back to when his dynasty came off the steppes to get any sort of conversion to Islam of either the rulers or populace. I mean I may be able to believe Romania converting to Islam under direct Ottoman rule. Bosnia did it, after all. But when they are trying, actively and fiercely, to maintain their independence from said Muslim power the notion is ridiculous.
 
Cuāuhtemōc

Cuāuhtemōc

Banned
Finn said:
You'd have to go back to when his dynasty came off the steppes to get any sort of conversion to Islam of either the rulers or populace. I mean I may be able to believe Romania converting to Islam under direct Ottoman rule. Bosnia did it, after all. But when they are trying, actively and fiercely, to maintain their independence from said Muslim power the notion is ridiculous.
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Bosnia was a special circumstances in that large droves of the Slavic population converted to Islam. The area was never really strong for the Orthodox nor the Catholic church but I believe that heretical Bosnian church which was very similar to Islam, at least similar enough for the population to convert in large droves. Perhaps it's best if you have a Turkic dynasty from the steppes convert to Islam and invade and conquer the various Romanian states.

I find the idea of an Islamic, Romance-speaking empire to be very cool. :D
 
Cuāuhtemōc

Cuāuhtemōc

Banned
Ridwan Asher said:
I never thought that I will be seconding you, but here I am, that as a Romance-speaking-muslims lover, I have a duty :cool:
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We may have our differences in opinion but no one can deny an Islamic Romanian-speaking population. It would've happened to Spain and Portugal had the Reconquista never happened. :D
 

Perix

twovultures said:
In modern Romania, Vlad Tepes III is revered as a national hero who stopped the Ottoman advance. However, what if he had converted to Islam and fought alongside rather than against the Ottomans? ....
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Once, the sultan captured a valachian soldier, and menanced him with severe torture, if not answer for informations. He started the torture, but seeing the soldier had no sign to reveal something, he freed him, saying: "if Vlad have many soldiers like you, soon he will conquer the world"
So, i think otomans would granted Vlad as a great vizir, and gave hin all he ned to conquer the areea. But his performances would been influenced by the valachians conversion, either.
 

carlton_bach

Perix said:
What happened with latin speakers from middle east, and africa, after arabian conquest? there should been a lot of them
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Not really. Latin was a very unusual language in the Levant - basically, only lawyers had to study it - and in North Africa, it was largely limited to coastal cities. most people inland apparently already spoke Berber. So most likely the few Latin speakers there were ended up assimilated into an arabophone urban population in the long run.
 

Perix

carlton_bach said:
Not really. Latin was a very unusual language in the Levant - basically, only lawyers had to study it - and in North Africa, it was largely limited to coastal cities. most people inland apparently already spoke Berber. So most likely the few Latin speakers there were ended up assimilated into an arabophone urban population in the long run.
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I don't think there are enough sources for this assertion. Is likely in Levant greek prevaled, but, neverthanless, i think is likely latin was a very popular language either. The same in Africa
On the other hand, as I know, balcanians, including turks, are very nationalistic when is about their languages. Many of them, when hear something in romanian, would say something like: "ugly language! gipsy language!"
 
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Grimm Reaper

There would one day be a trashy docudrama presenting Vizier Dracul as an emissary from the Ottoman Empire to some European court with various lovely ladies swooning over the forbidden fruit of a foreign nobleman.

Then one day he commits a terrible social blunder when he explains that, as an Muslim, he does not drink...wine.
 
Cuāuhtemōc

Cuāuhtemōc

Banned
Perix said:
What happened with latin speakers from middle east, and africa, after arabian conquest? there should been a lot of them
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There never were a lot of Latin speakers in the East. Only in the Crusades was there a significant presence of French men and even then they were more or less assimilated into the mainly Arabic society.

edit: The same applied to Greek.
 

carlton_bach

Perix said:
I don't think there are enough sources for this assertion. Is likely in Levant greek prevaled, but, neverthanless, i think is likely latin was a very popular language either. The same in Africa
On the other hand, as I know, balcanians, including turks, are very nationalistic when is about their languages. Many of them, when hear something in romanian, would say something like: "ugly language! gipsy language!"
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But then why do we have so very little epigraphic material and papyri in Latin? Pretty much every Latin text I've seen from anywhere in the Levant belonged to an official or military context. Even in places that had large transplanted populations, like Apameia, Greek displaces Latin quickly in civilian usage. I don't know of any theologian in the Eastern half of the Empire writing in Latin, either. If there had been a significant reservoir of spweakers of what, despite everything, remained a pretty prestigious language, wouldn't you expect it to show up more often?
 
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