The Shot Not Heard Around The World: A Time-line

[PaulPierce]

So you probably entered this threat thinking you would find a TL about the American Revolution right?

...............................................

Well you've come to the WRONG place.

As misleading as the title seems, don't worry. This time-line should be much more interesting.

The Shot Not Heard Around The World:
By: Paul Pierce

Disclaimer: This is my first time-line so be gentle, and actually this first post is actually only describing the POD and asking for help. The update will come soon however.

OTL: In 1609, on July 29th (Disputed by several sources to be either the 30th or the 29th but I've always enjoyed the 29th so we'll say it was then ), Samuel de Champlain (We'll call him Sammy C for short from now on) lead a mixed group of natives (mostly Hurons) for exploration purposes (this was the voyage where he discovered the Lake that is named after him), and encountered a group of Iroquois. He shot two of their three leaders himself, and this event was the start of a long history of bad French-Iroquoi relations.

POD: Now Sammy C's main reason for this exploration was, in fact, to explore! My POD is that Sammy C drops his gunpowder, allowing for the Iroquoi leaders to escape. Now even though their meeting was negative, they no longer feel like the French are foes that do not respect warfare. After all in OTL, Sammy C asked his Huron allies who their leaders were so he could target them especially. Now this POD could possibly lead to a more successful New France.....who knows?

If you are knowledgeable about Native Americans of the North-East please leave me anything you see wrong, or any tips you can leave. My area of knowledge is sadly only about the Hurons so i am lacking an authority on the other tribes.

Any other comments are welcome too!

[Herr Frage]

Intriguing, a more original PoD to be certain. Though your title trick is something I can appreciate it may have people not click because they think it "another Unsuccessful ARW TL".

While that would make for a much better first impression, it may not translate into an alliance. Though, without a built in dislike for France, the British may offer more to the Iroqouis for their support. A stronger IC could definiwetly breed butterflies.

Good luck.

[PaulPierce]

Originally Posted by Herr Frage

Intriguing, a more original PoD to be certain. Though your title trick is something I can appreciate it may have people not click because they think it "another Unsuccessful ARW TL".

While that would make for a much better first impression, it may not translate into an alliance. Though, without a built in dislike for France, the British may offer more to the Iroqouis for their support. A stronger IC could definiwetly breed butterflies.

Good luck.

Yea, i was weighing the title thing around a bit, but I think I'll keep it.
While this is the start, there will be other changes. You raise some good questions, but rest assured they will be answered.
Thank you for your input.

[PaulPierce]

I'm still scratching my head on some things and i was hoping any experts might help.

Does anyone know or have any idea of how large the gap was in power between the Hurons and the Iroquois?

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Originally Posted by PaulPierce

I'm still scratching my head on some things and i was hoping any experts might help.

Does anyone know or have any idea of how large the gap was in power between the Hurons and the Iroquois?

Monseuur M paul Pierce Yor assumption is most repulsive mon ami, in truth everyone knows the Iroqouis are better monseuirs. Fee to any who doubt the power of Roquois MonsiuernPaul pierce, I shall be watching closely Monsieur *__* So you better update soon O_____O

Really monsiuernpaul Iroqouis confedaracy owns the Hurnons any day.

on a side note mon Ami in EUIII the Iroqouis always own the Hurons although my previous statement is true, because monsieur de Paul Pierce The confedarcy is strong....


Oh by the way those faces are just for fun messier so don't take them too seriously, Otherwise excellent TL keep up the good work.
Oh by the way how's my French.

[PaulPierce]

Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus

Monseuur M paul Pierce Yor assumption is most repulsive mon ami, in truth everyone knows the Iroqouis are better monseuirs. Fee to any who doubt the power of Roquois MonsiuernPaul pierce, I shall be watching closely Monsieur *__* So you better update soon O_____O

Really monsiuernpaul Iroqouis confedaracy owns the Hurnons any day.

on a side note mon Ami in EUIII the Iroqouis always own the Hurons although my previous statement is true, because monsieur de Paul Pierce The confedarcy is strong....


Oh by the way those faces are just for fun messier so don't take them too seriously, Otherwise excellent TL keep up the good work.
Oh by the way how's my French.

Excellent thoughts, with some wonderful french.
Although....i think we shouldn't speak in such stereotypical accent huh?
Thanks for the contribution!

[PaulPierce]

Sorry for the lack of updates, was a bit busy this week.

First is coming out tomorrow!

[imperialaquila]

Originally Posted by PaulPierce

Sorry for the lack of updates, was a bit busy this week.

First is coming out tomorrow!

I'll be waiting.

Though, I don't see how New France will survive against the British colonies given this POD. The fundamental problem of New France was its tiny population compared to the British colonies. At the time of the French and Indian War, it was 60,000 Frenchmen vs. 1.5 million Brits. New France never had more than 10 % of the population of the English colonies. Unless you get France to start pumping people into its colonies the same way Britain did, New France will fall eventually.

[Dan1988]

Originally Posted by imperialaquila

I'll be waiting.

Though, I don't see how New France will survive against the British colonies given this POD. The fundamental problem of New France was its tiny population compared to the British colonies. At the time of the French and Indian War, it was 60,000 Frenchmen vs. 1.5 million Brits. New France never had more than 10 % of the population of the English colonies. Unless you get France to start pumping people into its colonies the same way Britain did, New France will fall eventually.

Well, the latter thing would be obvious, but I think the big thing here is neutralizing the Haudenosaunee as a threat to New France with the potential for an alliance. In that case it would be possible, but by no means easy. If the Haudenosaunee were allies of the French, that would make things easier for Québec City, for sure.

[imperialaquila]

Originally Posted by Dan1988

Well, the latter thing would be obvious, but I think the big thing here is neutralizing the Haudenosaunee as a threat to New France with the potential for an alliance. In that case it would be possible, but by no means easy. If the Haudenosaunee were allies of the French, that would make things easier for Québec City, for sure.

That makes sense. Now the French are friends with all of the natives, instead of just most of them.

One possible issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Huron and Iroquois pretty big enemies? How is New France going to stay friends with both of them at the same time? Sooner or later, it seems that one of them is going to ask for French help to beat up the other one, which would put France in a bind.

[Dan1988]

Originally Posted by imperialaquila

One possible issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Huron and Iroquois pretty big enemies? How is New France going to stay friends with both of them at the same time? Sooner or later, it seems that one of them is going to ask for French help to beat up the other one, which would put France in a bind.

As a neutral party between both of them, yeah that would create some problems. One can't solely rely on Champlain's charisma as a panacaea.

[Faeelin]

Perhaps the Iroquois end up as French allies and the Huron are wiped out?

[PaulPierce]

Thank you all of you all for your thoughts, i have looked at them and have changed a great many things.

Here's the first update to my time-line.

The Shot Not Heard Around The World:
A time-line by: Paul Pierce

Chapter 1.1: A touch of dutch.

After engaging the Iroquois, Sammy C continued past Lake Champlain, not stopping and going back like OTL, all the way to what would become Hudson Falls. He reached the area around August 20th. After seeing the Hudson river, he realized the vast space he could claim for France. Running low on supplies, Sammy C returned to Quebec with his party, but resolved to return south and explore the river he had discovered.

TIME-SKIP:August 20th 1609 - September 10th 1609

Henry Hudson, with his ship the Half Moon, had entered the Hudson River on September 1st. He was sailing for the Dutch East India Trading Company, and he was looking for the Northwest Passage. He reached the area around Hudson Falls around September 10th, where he met Sammy C, with a new expedition party of 10 French soldiers and 300 Wyandot warriors. When Henry Hudson's party lands, Sammy C attempts to make peaceful contact. Hudson refused any aid, and claimed he wanted to return to Europe. Henry Hudson mentions with a passing remark that he had destroyed a native American village further north, near North Scotia. When he first made contact, they had told him about their stronger neighbors to the south, the Iroquois confederacy had begun using strange weapons, similar to the ones Hudson had with his men. While Hudson thinks nothing of this, Sammy C realizes that the Iroquois have discovered firearms and also sees that the Dutch are a potential supplier. After giving Hudson some food, he quickly returns to Quebec where he sends a letter on the next ship back to France...............

[PaulPierce]

Originally Posted by imperialaquila

I'll be waiting.

Though, I don't see how New France will survive against the British colonies given this POD. The fundamental problem of New France was its tiny population compared to the British colonies. At the time of the French and Indian War, it was 60,000 Frenchmen vs. 1.5 million Brits. New France never had more than 10 % of the population of the English colonies. Unless you get France to start pumping people into its colonies the same way Britain did, New France will fall eventually.

Thank you for this, really turned my head upside down causing me to do more research

[PaulPierce]

Originally Posted by imperialaquila

That makes sense. Now the French are friends with all of the natives, instead of just most of them.

One possible issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Huron and Iroquois pretty big enemies? How is New France going to stay friends with both of them at the same time? Sooner or later, it seems that one of them is going to ask for French help to beat up the other one, which would put France in a bind.

Yea, that issue is a major one. While i don't want to spoil to much, New France will eventually be forced to pick a side, which one it is however......
i do not know

[PaulPierce]

Originally Posted by Dan1988

As a neutral party between both of them, yeah that would create some problems. One can't solely rely on Champlain's charisma as a panacaea.

Very true. Thank you for your contribution.

[PaulPierce]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

Perhaps the Iroquois end up as French allies and the Huron are wiped out?

Perhaps

[PaulPierce]

Any comments?

[imperialaquila]

Originally Posted by PaulPierce

Any comments?

Right now, we have some hints of the Dutch possibly arming the Iroquois. For what motive, we have no idea. We also don't know the French reaction. Give us more events, if you want more responses.