PC:Western Constantinople?

[Chamonix]

What are the chances of Constantine placing his city in Gaul or Brittania rather than Greece? Would this lead to a WRE rather than an ERE surviving?

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

He'd have to put it somewhere as defensible as Constantinople and with as great a range of geographic control, and I can't offhand think of such a place...

Maybe where Toulon is?

[Basileus Giorgios]

Slim to nonexistant. Constantinople was where it was to put it near the Persian front, and the Atlantic Ocean will never be as threatening to Roman interests as the Sassanid Empire.

[maverick]

How about Alexandria?

"Look at me, I'm greater than this other guy"

Athens is also an interesting place, and there's also Ephesus and Pergamum, although I don't know how defensible they are.

Carthago and Syracuse might be too far.

Jerusalem might be good from a propagandistic point of view, but not from a strategic or military perspective.

Note: for a second I turned into a moron and forgot the OP. Only a few actually fit the criteria for a "western Constantinople."

For this, you might need to find a way to destroy the Persians, although in that case they might just get replaced by another Persian state.

[Rex Romanum]

Originally Posted by Chamonix

What are the chances of Constantine placing his city in Gaul or Brittania rather than Greece? Would this lead to a WRE rather than an ERE surviving?

I think the best candidate for this would be Ravenna, it is surrounded by swamps and marshes that make it quite hard to be attacked, it is near both Rhine and Danube, and in the case of a siege, Ravenna can be supplied by sea (although now it is landlocked).
That's why Ravenna becomes capital of the Western Roman Empire (from 402), Ostrogothic Kingdom, and Exarchate of Ravenna.
However, a strong capital won't help much for the West...

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by maverick

How about Alexandria?

Not on the point, but definitely an interesting idea.

Note: for a second I turned into a moron and forgot the OP. Only a few actually fit the criteria for a "western Constantinople."

Possible to build a huge urban metropolis at Gibraltar?

[DuQuense]

The Idea was to split the Empire, in order to shorten communication times.
While Rome only controlled a small piece of Crimea on the black sea north shore, the sea was a important trade centre for Rome.
Constantinople was chosen to allow control of the Straits. But was not intended to surpass Rome. And Rome took steps to prevent any other western city from outshining it.

[Wolfpaw]

Venice was a disease ridden swamp of a lagoon, but then the Romans were rather competent at environmental engineering. Perhaps this could become a potential "Western Constantinople?"

That being said, Byzantium may well become the fortress city it became IOTL, just without the imperial splendor. Basically a giant keep on the Bosphorus.

[Douglas]

I seem to remember a bunch of Western emperors holding court at Trier every once in a while. Perhaps that could be a fortress-capital aimed at containing the barbarians beyond the German border?

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by Chamonix

What are the chances of Constantine placing his city in Gaul or Brittania rather than Greece? Would this lead to a WRE rather than an ERE surviving?

Constantine didn't put it in Greece, he put it in Thrace. Putting it in Greece would have been a bad idea.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by Rex Romanum

I think the best candidate for this would be Ravenna, it is surrounded by swamps and marshes that make it quite hard to be attacked, it is near both Rhine and Danube, and in the case of a siege, Ravenna can be supplied by sea (although now it is landlocked).
That's why Ravenna becomes capital of the Western Roman Empire (from 402), Ostrogothic Kingdom, and Exarchate of Ravenna.
However, a strong capital won't help much for the West...

I think you guys are missing the "Gaul or Britannia" part of the OP.

Ignoring that, Ravenna would have been decent defensively, but it isn't a port or astride any major waterways. Constantinople controlled access from the Black Sea, which was an important defensive measure, and it was literally at the center of the world.

In Britannia, I guess it wouldn't matter too much as long as a navy were maintained. Probably about where London is would be pretty convenient.

In Gaul, definitely the South - I like Toulon because it's defensible and a port.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by maverick

How about Alexandria?

"Look at me, I'm greater than this other guy"

Athens is also an interesting place, and there's also Ephesus and Pergamum, although I don't know how defensible they are.

Carthago and Syracuse might be too far.

Jerusalem might be good from a propagandistic point of view, but not from a strategic or military perspective.

Note: for a second I turned into a moron and forgot the OP. Only a few actually fit the criteria for a "western Constantinople."

For this, you might need to find a way to destroy the Persians, although in that case they might just get replaced by another Persian state.

Alexandria is utterly defenseless, and no amount of defense works will ever make it anything else. There's really no match for Constantinople.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Abdul Hadi Pasha

In Gaul, definitely the South - I like Toulon because it's defensible and a port.

I think Trier has a shot. It was the seat of one of the four subdivisions of the Empire, and held a commanding position along the German border. If you wanted a capital to focus on repelling any barbarian invasions, that would be a damn good choice, IMO.

[mailinutile2]

you need a rich area as well as a strategical important place.
Thus half starven illitterate briton towns are out of the argument.
Gaul had some moderate wealthy zones, but it was nothing compared to the fabulous treasures of the East

[Rex Romanum]

Originally Posted by Abdul Hadi Pasha

I think you guys are missing the "Gaul or Britannia" part of the OP.

Ignoring that, Ravenna would have been decent defensively, but it isn't a port or astride any major waterways. Constantinople controlled access from the Black Sea, which was an important defensive measure, and it was literally at the center of the world.

In Britannia, I guess it wouldn't matter too much as long as a navy were maintained. Probably about where London is would be pretty convenient.

In Gaul, definitely the South - I like Toulon because it's defensible and a port.

Ah alright, sorry about that...
Then my choice would be:
-Treverorum (Trier) because it's near the Rhine
-Londinium (London) because it's near the Firth to Forth and relatively protected from any Germanic invasion, especially if reinforced with a powerful navy
However Abdul, I disagree with you about Ravenna isn't a major seaport.
In 31 BC after the battle of Actium, Octavian builded a military harbor in the city which make Ravenna an important base for Roman Imperial Fleet, and it remained a major seaport in Adriatic Sea until Early Middle Age.

[mailinutile2]

Originally Posted by Abdul Hadi Pasha

Ignoring that, Ravenna would have been decent defensively, but it isn't a port or astride any major waterways.

Afraid you are using an atlas from the wrong century.
Ravenna is not a port now, because after 1700 years of sediments coming from a nearby river the coastline moved and the city is now inland.
But then it was the main port of the central mediterranean.
Indeed, ravenna was officially the seat of the eastern med fleet of the roman empire (Misenum was the seat of the western fleet)

[fortyseven]

Too bad Lyon is fairly defenseless.

[Axeman]

Perhaps Rome somehow conquers Germania, but then splits the Empire anyway for whatever reason? So we could have Rome build a brand new city in the area North of Switzerland between the Danube and Rhine.

Thus you have the Alps covering the south approach, the Danube blocks off most direct east paths except for a few narrow passes, the Rhine does the same, to a lesser extent, for the west, and the gap in between the 2 can be fortified to high-hell.

Thus you have a city in between Italy, Gaul, on 2 of the Empire's major rivers, though not on the Ocean, and the capital is moved closer to stop Invaders from Capturing Germany.

[Rex Romanum]

Originally Posted by Axeman

Perhaps Rome somehow conquers Germania, but then splits the Empire anyway for whatever reason? So we could have Rome build a brand new city in the area North of Switzerland between the Danube and Rhine.

Thus you have the Alps covering the south approach, the Danube blocks off most direct east paths except for a few narrow passes, the Rhine does the same, to a lesser extent, for the west, and the gap in between the 2 can be fortified to high-hell.

Thus you have a city in between Italy, Gaul, on 2 of the Empire's major rivers, though not on the Ocean, and the capital is moved closer to stop Invaders from Capturing Germany.

Now this is one of interesting idea...

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by mailinutile2

Afraid you are using an atlas from the wrong century.
Ravenna is not a port now, because after 1700 years of sediments coming from a nearby river the coastline moved and the city is now inland.
But then it was the main port of the central mediterranean.
Indeed, ravenna was officially the seat of the eastern med fleet of the roman empire (Misenum was the seat of the western fleet)

Yes, yes, I know my history. The east coast of Italy lacks natural harbors, and while it's usable as a base if there's no serious opposition, it's an exposed position. It's defensible on land, but it doesn't have much strategic purpose or a rich hinterland to make it prosperous, nor is it on critical trade routes. It's also a bit vulnerable when it comes to water, which is another important consideration.

With regard to Trier, that's a decent idea, but don't forget the Rhine used to freeze in the winter, and Trier wasn't exactly the middle of Civilization.

If you want a capital that can maintain communications with a large empire, it really needs to be on the Med, in my opinion, but I'm not pooh-poohing Trier, at least until the whole German thing dies down.