The Cold War: A Collaborative Timeline

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Gosing

This is shaking up to be seriously awesome.

Some idea (just ideas):

1) Spacewank. It was awesome in 50 Years, and it would be even more awesome here (earlier start). Moonbase and Mars expedition, anyone?

2) Western Europe will be different and probably more powerful. We've got a lasting French Indochina, a maintained Monarchist Egypt (which will probably set back other Mid East Revolutionary movements) and no real victory for decolonisation yet (India is a Commonwealth Realm about to fall to civil war, and the jury's still out on Indonesia). Britain, in particular, will be less willing to join any kind of Pan-European organization unless aother disaster comes.

3) We need more India and Indonesia, people!

4) I think the Republicans may be due to win in '56.

1. Yeah, but 50 Years was the epitome of ASB. I support better space tech than OTL, but not space empires in 2010.

2. Agreed.

3. Agreed.

4. Yes. Yes, they are.

January 1st, 1959: Ronald Reagan becomes the lead broadcaster of ABC Nightly News. He will go on to become known for his liberal political beliefs, and his lengthy newscasting career.

[Francisco Cojuanco]

When I said "a Commonwealth Realm", Gosing, that means they are independent. Basically India (and now Pakistan) are as independent as Canada was at the time. In India's case, the only remaining link to Britain aside from Queen Elizabeth is that they need to ask London for permission to amend the Constitution. Pakistan, being independent by unilateral declaration, is under no such limitation.

Basically, Elizabeth II is Queen of India and Queen of Pakistan, but that's largely a formality.

[Francisco Cojuanco]

January 3, 1959: The Soviets withdraw from the Allied Commission on Austria.

November 2, 1959: The Soviet-backed People's Republic of Austria is proclaimed, with its capital in East Vienna and Johann Kopelnig as President. West Vienna still remains under Western Occupation.

December 31, 1959: The Western Allies allow the remainder of Austria to become independent as the Federal Republic of Austria with Salzburg as the temporary capital following reunification. In response Soviet and Austrian Communist troops cut off West Vienna from the outside world, cutting road access and communications lines.

[DrakonFin]

Originally Posted by trekchu

Righto. Consider this deleted then. Still, I think Germany would eventually drift towards the West.

OOC: I believe so too. It is just that the USSR would, IMHO, only allow German reunification at that point if there are guarantees it stays neutral. And that is what the west would not want, hence the OTL situation. For a unified Germany by 1960, I think a deal would have to be brokered between the USSR and the W.Allies that seemingly affirms a neutral Germany (to placate Soviet fears) but between the lines allows Western orientation in the future, maybe by building in the possibility for future revisions.

And to get along with the TL:

August 15th 1955: The Soviet and Finnish governments fail to agree the terms for returning the Porkkala area to Finland. The lease duration, however, is reduced from 50 to 20 years and the next date of possible lease renewal set in 1975.

[Gosing]

Originally Posted by Francisco Cojuanco

When I said "a Commonwealth Realm", Gosing, that means they are independent. Basically India (and now Pakistan) are as independent as Canada was at the time. In India's case, the only remaining link to Britain aside from Queen Elizabeth is that they need to ask London for permission to amend the Constitution. Pakistan, being independent by unilateral declaration, is under no such limitation.

Basically, Elizabeth II is Queen of India and Queen of Pakistan, but that's largely a formality.

I tried to work that in-anyway, under the Statute of Westminster any new Dominion would be pretty much independant unless someone says otherwise. I would assume that the Indians would push and get special privelages since they had waited so long for independance and Britain was weak at the moment. India is officially a Republic currently (and in 1948), but you mentioned a Royal Indian Army, so I assumed India was a Dominion. Feel free to post your own Indian independence date-this is your storyline.

[Gosing]

Originally Posted by Scifiguy

1. Yeah, but 50 Years was the epitome of ASB. I support better space tech than OTL, but not space empires in 2010.

January 1st, 1959: Ronald Reagan becomes the lead broadcaster of ABC Nightly News. He will go on to become known for his liberal political beliefs, and his lengthy newscasting career.

Too bad about 50 Years, but IIRC an international Moonbase was possible, but the powers never got their act together. Both a Moonbase and a successful Mars expedition are possible with a 1945 PoD, certainly.

And woot for liberal Reagan!

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Here are some PODs to make the civil rights movement different:

October 23rd, 1947: "An Appeal to the World" by NAACP leaders W.E.B. Du Bois, Albert Parker, and Ralph Bunche is made in New York City, New York, calling for an active investigation into "the plight of the Negro-American due to Jim Crow segregation...."

September 13th, 1952: Afghanistan, Burma, Egypt, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia and Yemen call upon the General Assembly to begin formal investigations into "the question of race conflict in the United States of America resulting from the policies of Jim Crow segregation of the Government of the United States of America"

December 21st, 1952: The United Nations a Human Rights Commission to investigate the matter of human rights violations under Hernan Santa Cruz of Chile, Ralph Bunche of the United States, and Jaime Torres Bodet of Mexico....

March 30th, 1953: United Nations inspectors Henri Laugier of France and Dantes Bellegarde of Haiti are killed outside of Birmingham, Alabama, sparking international attention...

December 6th, 1955: United Nations General Assembly adopts Resolution #917 calling for the Human Rights Commission to continue its investigation into the plight of "people of color" in the United States, sparking international controversy...

November 27th, 1956: U.S. Secretary of State Howard Stassen complains that United Nations investigations into the plight of Negro-Americans are in violation of Article 2, paragraph 7 of the United Nations Charter, claiming that the matter is purely an "an internal matter"...

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Originally Posted by trekchu

This also implies that the Brits retained their Battleship capability.

Not really... In OTL, the term "Freedom Flotilla" was used to describe the fleet of civilian cargo ships and transport vessels which broke the Israeli blockade against the Gaza Strip...

[Gosing]

Originally Posted by Mr_ Bondoc

Here are some PODs to make the civil rights movement different:

October 23rd, 1947: "An Appeal to the World" by NAACP leaders W.E.B. Du Bois, Albert Parker, and Ralph Bunche is made in New York City, New York, calling for an active investigation into "the plight of the Negro-American due to Jim Crow segregation...."

September 13th, 1952: Afghanistan, Burma, Egypt, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia and Yemen call upon the General Assembly to begin formal investigations into "the question of race conflict in the United States of America resulting from the policies of Jim Crow segregation of the Government of the United States of America"

December 21st, 1952: The United Nations a Human Rights Commission to investigate the matter of human rights violations under Hernan Santa Cruz of Chile, Ralph Bunche of the United States, and Jaime Torres Bodet of Mexico....

March 30th, 1953: United Nations inspectors Henri Laugier of France and Dantes Bellegarde of Haiti are killed outside of Birmingham, Alabama, sparking international attention...

December 6th, 1955: United Nations General Assembly adopts Resolution #917 calling for the Human Rights Commission to continue its investigation into the plight of "people of color" in the United States, sparking international controversy...

November 27th, 1956: U.S. Secretary of State Howard Stassen complains that United Nations investigations into the plight of Negro-Americans are in violation of Article 2, paragraph 7 of the United Nations Charter, claiming that the matter is purely an "an internal matter"...

An interesting idea, but I have some doubts about the members who are calling for an investigation-Iran is an Anglo-American puppet, British puppet, as are to a lesser extent Iraq and Egypt, and Indonesia is probably still at war with the Dutch (we really need some more Indonesia dates-balkanization is a good thing).

[RandomIdeaGuy]

Some things to note:
- The father of the Russian hydrogen bomb is dead in the gulag.
- The main architect of a lot of America's space program now works for Russia, so to balance that out I had the American program start earlier with some help from Einstein.

So, in terms of nuclear warfare, I'd say America has the edge in terms of power, but Russia has the edge in terms of range (rockets).

[Gosing]

Some more random ideas:

May 17, 1948: Taking advantage of the lack of power of the still-unsteady USSR, Marshal Tito formally breaks from Moscow.

May 14, 1953: A bomb misfires in a busy street in Hanoi, State of Vietnam, the first such attack in several years. It sends the French into a panic, but the real culprits are a ragtag band of former Vietminh members.

November 1, 1954: A mass uprising in Algeria marks the start of the long-running insurgency in that colony.

June 14, 1957: Yugoslavia formally joins the Third Way, calling for "The Free People of the World to resist all forms of imperialism, French or British, American or Soviet."

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Originally Posted by Gosing

An interesting idea, but I have some doubts about the members who are calling for an investigation-Iran is an Anglo-American puppet, British puppet, as are to a lesser extent Iraq and Egypt, and Indonesia is probably still at war with the Dutch (we really need some more Indonesia dates-balkanization is a good thing).

Actually in OTL, although it sounds incredible, the only thing that was changed was the target of the concern of those nations. In OTL, the nations in question, were challenging South Africa and Great Britain with concerns over apartheid, while they were under British colonization. In the ATL, the nations in question decide to challenge the United States....

[Ziomatrix]

April 9th, 1948 - A battle in the Palestinian town of Dier Yassin occurs as Irgun forces capture the town with civilian casualties estimated at 107 while 4 militiamen were killed and 35 injured. The attack and occupation is internationally condemned as Menachem Begin and members from the Irgun as well as Lehi group cite continued strife for Jewish residents in the area from Fedayeen. In response instances of attacks on Kibbutzes rise as well as an instance of random shelling from stolen British artillery pieces onto a Tel Aviv suburb.

May 14t,h 1948 - The ship Altalena, which embarked from Port-de-Bouc France and lands in Tyre, has its cargo of mostly machining tools unloaded with supposed help from the Chehab family. With the initial voyage successful, the Altalena start embarking on round trips joined by other unidentified merchant marine vessels.

August 23rd, 1948 - A congress held by the Zionist Organization had referendum in Crown Heights, Brooklyn New York, attracting much negative attention from the local orthodox communities. However, the significance of it became apparent as Ben Gurion announced that the Zionist cause can no longer sustain the efforts to create a state and resources should be diverted once more to maintaining a strong, industrious but ultimately civil Jewish presence in the Levant. He also announces that the role of the Haganah will remain a united security force for all Kibbutzes and the municipality of Tel Aviv.

August 31st - After attempting to retain the village of Dier Yassin in order to keep a foothold near Jerusalem the Irgun forces finally withdraw in disarray after it becomes apparent no former support will arrive. Unknown sources state they are heading north.

September 11th, 1948 - Menachem Begin and co-founder announces the revival of the New Zionist Organization (NZO) which mostly contains policies carried over from Revisionist Zionism with an exception of replacing Jewish supremacy with active Arab engagement as apposed to peaceful but ultimately separate communal co-existence pushed by Labor Zionism. It also expands such engagement outside of the borders of Eritz Yisrael and all along the Levant citing ancient texts of the Judean Kingdom under David. The movement catches the fancy of many American conservative Jews and remaining European unorthodox who feel disenfranchised by the sudden pacifism of the old Zionist guard. They view the Anglo-American inquiry into the Palestinian issue as well as those involved ultimately anti-Semitic.

April 6th, 1950 - The ruling military government of Lebanon in a shocking twist that angers much of its Islamic population starts to welcome Jewish settlers in the sparsely populated south to form a kind of additional business zone to Beirut, which is sponsored by the NZO. British observers (I don't know if the British withdrew) along the northern Palestinian border also report movement within Southern Lebanon uncertain whether it is from the army, local militia or others.

December 8th, 1951 - Facing a dry up of support in the west Labor Zionism and many of its leaders including Ben Gurion endorse increased support with the Eastern Bloc. This alienated many Jewish residents in Palestine who equally fled from potential Soviet repression and virtually extinguishes remaining support among the American Jewish populous. The NZO take it as an opportunity to further romanticize their movement as one that brings the Middle East closer to Jews abroad (through Lebanon) and keeps Communism away. They also make headway in connecting with non-Jewish but equally Zionist and increasingly politically active Baptist congregations including the largest, the Southern Baptist Convention.

To Be Continued, by me or someone else. I know this whole TL I made may seem ASB considering the ATL that is going on. But I just want folks to know that it is plausible that there are Zionists who would find a way to Jewish self-determination even without the partition.

[trekchu]

Originally Posted by Mr_ Bondoc

Not really... In OTL, the term "Freedom Flotilla" was used to describe the fleet of civilian cargo ships and transport vessels which broke the Israeli blockade against the Gaza Strip...

It does actually. All the specifically named British ships are BBs, of the Vanguard and KGV-Class.

[DrakonFin]

June 7th 1953: Sweden, Norway and Denmark form the Nordic Council. A common labour market and free movement across borders without passport introduced.

October 20th 1954: The last war reparation payment from Finland, a batch of industrial machinery, delivered to the USSR. Relieved celebration in Finland for the completion of the debt. Prime Minister Tuomioja visits Moscow with a trade delegation to discuss bilateral economic issues.

November 1st 1955: Finland joins the Nordic Council.

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Well, the thread is now entering its 8th Page soon, the question becomes, when will there be a unified ATL, or at least an update? Lord knows that it takes time to organize every update....

[Orko]

Originally Posted by Ziomatrix

April 9th, 1948 - A battle in the Palestinian town of Dier Yassin occurs as Irgun forces capture the town with civilian casualties estimated at 107 while 4 militiamen were killed and 35 injured. The attack and occupation is internationally condemned as Menachem Begin and members from the Irgun as well as Lehi group cite continued strife for Jewish residents in the area from Fedayeen. In response instances of attacks on Kibbutzes rise as well as an instance of random shelling from stolen British artillery pieces onto a Tel Aviv suburb.

May 14t,h 1948 - The ship Altalena, which embarked from Port-de-Bouc France and lands in Tyre, has its cargo of mostly machining tools unloaded with supposed help from the Chehab family. With the initial voyage successful, the Altalena start embarking on round trips joined by other unidentified merchant marine vessels.

August 23rd, 1948 - A congress held by the Zionist Organization had referendum in Crown Heights, Brooklyn New York, attracting much negative attention from the local orthodox communities. However, the significance of it became apparent as Ben Gurion announced that the Zionist cause can no longer sustain the efforts to create a state and resources should be diverted once more to maintaining a strong, industrious but ultimately civil Jewish presence in the Levant. He also announces that the role of the Haganah will remain a united security force for all Kibbutzes and the municipality of Tel Aviv.

August 31st - After attempting to retain the village of Dier Yassin in order to keep a foothold near Jerusalem the Irgun forces finally withdraw in disarray after it becomes apparent no former support will arrive. Unknown sources state they are heading north.

September 11th, 1948 - Menachem Begin and co-founder announces the revival of the New Zionist Organization (NZO) which mostly contains policies carried over from Revisionist Zionism with an exception of replacing Jewish supremacy with active Arab engagement as apposed to peaceful but ultimately separate communal co-existence pushed by Labor Zionism. It also expands such engagement outside of the borders of Eritz Yisrael and all along the Levant citing ancient texts of the Judean Kingdom under David. The movement catches the fancy of many American conservative Jews and remaining European unorthodox who feel disenfranchised by the sudden pacifism of the old Zionist guard. They view the Anglo-American inquiry into the Palestinian issue as well as those involved ultimately anti-Semitic.

April 6th, 1950 - The ruling military government of Lebanon in a shocking twist that angers much of its Islamic population starts to welcome Jewish settlers in the sparsely populated south to form a kind of additional business zone to Beirut, which is sponsored by the NZO. British observers (I don't know if the British withdrew) along the northern Palestinian border also report movement within Southern Lebanon uncertain whether it is from the army, local militia or others.

December 8th, 1951 - Facing a dry up of support in the west Labor Zionism and many of its leaders including Ben Gurion endorse increased support with the Eastern Bloc. This alienated many Jewish residents in Palestine who equally fled from potential Soviet repression and virtually extinguishes remaining support among the American Jewish populous. The NZO take it as an opportunity to further romanticize their movement as one that brings the Middle East closer to Jews abroad (through Lebanon) and keeps Communism away. They also make headway in connecting with non-Jewish but equally Zionist and increasingly politically active Baptist congregations including the largest, the Southern Baptist Convention.

To Be Continued, by me or someone else. I know this whole TL I made may seem ASB considering the ATL that is going on. But I just want folks to know that it is plausible that there are Zionists who would find a way to Jewish self-determination even without the partition.

Haven't we already decided that the region has been peacefully partitioned?

[DrakonFin]

June 17th 1956: K.-A. Fagerholm, the President of Finland, on a tour of the US. Gives a speech in Minneapolis stating that his country is "a democratic nation interested in peace between all nations. We are arbitrators rather than competitors. The policy of Finland is true neutrality."

June 22nd 1956: The Midsummer Crisis. In a diplomatic note, the Soviet Union accuses Finland of "sliding towards the West" and reminds the Finnish government of its the FCMA Treaty obligations. Referring to the Treaty, the note further calls for joint military exercises of the Red Army and the FDF. Soviet troops in Porkkala put on high alert, as is the Finnish standing army. Fagerholm cuts his US tour short to return home to address the issue.

June 27th 1956: Under pressure, the Finnish government yields to the Soviet demand, raising international concerns about the Finnish position.

May 3rd 1957: The Finnish Defence Forces and the Red Army hold a joint exercise in Finnish North Karelia, with a mechanized brigade from both armies taking part. International observers note both the seemingly high readiness of the Finnish troops and the material superiority of the Soviets. The exercise, dubbed "Enduring Trust" (official) or "Badger 57" (Finnish unofficial) goes off almost without a hitch (even if 6 soldiers are hurt in a truck accident). Visiting Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev beams with satisfaction, next to the considerably sour Fagerholm. The Western press questions Finnish neutrality; the New York Times goes as far as call Finland "Warsaw Pact in all but name."

[Gosing]

Originally Posted by Ziomatrix

snip

Errrr....I kind of had this plan for a peaceful partition according to the '48 UN Resoltion..

[Ziomatrix]

Originally Posted by Orko

Haven't we already decided that the region has been peacefully partitioned?

Then how come I read about the whole "Anglo-American" TL for a single state solution?

Originally Posted by Gosing

Errrr....I kind of had this plan for a peaceful partition according to the '48 UN Resoltion..

The fact is the more the partitioned is delayed the more undefined sectarian violence there could be and the more borders get muddled. Ben Gurion's whole plan for a state of Israel and unanimous support among all factions hinged on an exponential resolution of the two state solution.