The Union Forever: A TL

[pearsonwright]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

It looks good, but I can't remember how it looked before that edit.

France also looks good.

Now do the USA

Before the Edit, it had a black background and a white outline.

This is going to be hard, because I need to keep everything to scale, but I will try it :P

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by pearsonwright

Before the Edit, it had a black background and a white outline.

This is going to be hard, because I need to keep everything to scale, but I will try it :P

Yeah the new one is better.

Don't forget all the territories... Micronesia, Samoa, etm.

[pearsonwright]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

Yeah the new one is better.

Don't forget all the territories... Micronesia, Samoa, etm.

I might have to skip the Pacific Territories, as they would just be dots anyway.

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by pearsonwright

Wouldn't Italy have gotten Istria? It seems odd that Croatia and Slovenia would recieve them, when Italy contributed far more to the war effort, and a good deal of Istria was Italian populated?

Also, because East Thrace is closer to Bulgaria, and Bulgaria hasn't gotten much "compensation" for its war efforts, I could see it going to them.

Also, shouldn't there be more autonomous groups in Russia?

Originally Posted by Enigmajones

Gotta say, I love that Ireland still gets partitioned with a POD in the 1860's.

Right you are, I went back a gave Italy Istria. I dind't even realize that in OTL Italy controled Istria until after our WW1.

I think I am going to keep East Thrace part of Greece because, and correct me if i am wrong, east thrace's population is mostly greek. Bulgaria's compensation for its part in the great war is mostly its indepednece.

As far as autonomous groups in Russia and because this map depicts 1950 I am only showing the kingdom of (Congress) Poland and the Grand Principality of Finland. Am I forgetting something?

Good call on Ireland. I used pearsonwright's suggestion.


What do y'all think of the map now. Am I leaving anything out?

[pearsonwright]

Originally Posted by Mac Gregor

Right you are, I went back a gave Italy Istria. I dind't even realize that in OTL Italy controled Istria until after our WW1.

I think I am going to keep East Thrace part of Greece because, and correct me if i am wrong, east thrace's population is mostly greek. Bulgaria's compensation for its part in the great war is mostly its indepednece.

As far as autonomous groups in Russia and because this map depicts 1950 I am only showing the kingdom of (Congress) Poland and the Grand Principality of Finland. Am I forgetting something?

Good call on Ireland. I used pearsonwright's suggestion.


What do y'all think of the map now. Am I leaving anything out?

Figuring out the Ethnic Composition of the Balkan's is a daunting task, as almost every map is biased to favor one country or another.



This one looks right to me, but it might be biased.

In any event, perhaps we could have a different Thrace? Maybe Bulgaria could get the Midia-Enos Line like it did in the First Balkan War?
Or, Greece could nab a bit of Anatolia and Bulgaria gets East Thrace.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_Army_FBW.JPG

Congress Poland had its autonomy revoked in 1867 (I believe), so if that's the case, It wouldn't be shown.

[Lalli]

Shouldn't Montenegro be indepent?

What was ethnic situation in Bosnia-Herzegovina early 20th century? Now in Serbia might be quiet large Croatian minority. I think that Bosnia could divide between Croatia and Serbia.

Large islands on coast of Estonia hardly belong for Finland. Or missed I something?

And I think that on future Galicia could be part of Poland.

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by Lalli

Shouldn't Montenegro be indepent?

What was ethnic situation in Bosnia-Herzegovina early 20th century? Now in Serbia might be quiet large Croatian minority. I think that Bosnia could divide between Croatia and Serbia.

Large islands on coast of Estonia hardly belong for Finland. Or missed I something?

And I think that on future Galicia could be part of Poland.

Good question regarding Montenegro. Montenegro was an independent state that sided with the Coaltion in the Great War. As far as I can tell Nicholas I was prince as in OTL. Nicholas I was a supported of unification with Serbia as in OTL however that could be butterflied away. I could see it going either way. What do y'all think? Should Montenegro be independent?

No sure on where the Croats were located in Bosnia before the great war. Does anybody want to suggest an alternate way to draw the Croation-Serbian border?

My mistake on the islands.

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by pearsonwright

Figuring out the Ethnic Composition of the Balkan's is a daunting task, as almost every map is biased to favor one country or another.


This one looks right to me, but it might be biased.

In any event, perhaps we could have a different Thrace? Maybe Bulgaria could get the Midia-Enos Line like it did in the First Balkan War?
Or, Greece could nab a bit of Anatolia and Bulgaria gets East Thrace.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_Army_FBW.JPG

Congress Poland had its autonomy revoked in 1867 (I believe), so if that's the case, It wouldn't be shown.

How about this? Lets say Turkey only gets to keep the area immediately surrounding Istanbul after their defeat in the Great War?


Thanks again to everyone for helping with this map. I know it can be tedious but I think its best to get these details straight now before we progress further. Keep the suggestions coming.

[Lalli]

Originally Posted by Mac Gregor

Good question regarding Montenegro. Montenegro was an independent state that sided with the Coaltion in the Great War. As far as I can tell Nicholas I was prince as in OTL. Nicholas I was a supported of unification with Serbia as in OTL however that could be butterflied away. I could see it going either way. What do y'all think? Should Montenegro be independent?

No sure on where the Croats were located in Bosnia before the great war. Does anybody want to suggest an alternate way to draw the Croation-Serbian border?

My mistake on the islands.

I found this map:



Well, seemingly Bosnia-Hertzegovina was then very strongly Serbian. Maybe there not be anything reason changes borders.

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by Lalli

I found this map:



Well, seemingly Bosnia-Hertzegovina was then very strongly Serbian. Maybe there not be anything reason changes borders.

Curious. Well judging by this map is Croatia in the maps above to big?

[pearsonwright]

Originally Posted by Mac Gregor

How about this? Lets say Turkey only gets to keep the area immediately surrounding Istanbul after their defeat in the Great War?


Thanks again to everyone for helping with this map. I know it can be tedious but I think its best to get these details straight now before we progress further. Keep the suggestions coming.

I'm not sure that the Turks would go for that, because according to past updates, the Thrace campaign was largely a success, and I suspect the British, French, or Russians would rather get more land for themselves in the middle east at the peace settlement, than give what the Ottoman's consider "Vital" to the Balkan states (who could easily try to take the rest of Thrace, then shut off the straights)

Here Is my idea, I give you the "Bulgarian Corridor"

This gives Bulgaria the town of Alexanderdroupoli, which had the largest Bulgarian population in West Thrace, and still gives Greece a good deal of land.

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by pearsonwright

I'm not sure that the Turks would go for that, because according to past updates, the Thrace campaign was largely a success, and I suspect the British, French, or Russians would rather get more land for themselves in the middle east at the peace settlement, than give what the Ottoman's consider "Vital" to the Balkan states (who could easily try to take the rest of Thrace, then shut off the straights)

Here Is my idea, I give you the "Bulgarian Corridor"

This gives Bulgaria the town of Alexanderdroupoli, which had the largest Bulgarian population in West Thrace, and still gives Greece a good deal of land.

That could work for me.

What about this as a possible slight change to Croatia's borders?

Also what is your take on Montenegro?

[pearsonwright]

Originally Posted by Mac Gregor

That could work for me.

What about this as a possible slight change to Croatia's borders?

Also what is your take on Montenegro?

I could see a slight change to Croatia's borders, to better accommodate the Ethnic boundaries of the Balkans

Montenegro could perhaps be Autonomous, inside Serbia, with it retaining its own King, and legislative body etc. (Kind of like the Germany ITTL)

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by pearsonwright

I could see a slight change to Croatia's borders, to better accommodate the Ethnic boundaries of the Balkans

Montenegro could perhaps be Autonomous, inside Serbia, with it retaining its own King, and legislative body etc. (Kind of like the Germany ITTL)

Hmm, yeah looks like there are three possible ways for Montenegro to go all of which seem about equally plausable to me.

1) An independent state (either as a Principality of Kingdom)
2) Some form of autonomy such as a principality under the Serbian Monarchy. (Pictured below)
3) Fully integrated into Serbia.

[pearsonwright]

Originally Posted by Mac Gregor

Hmm, yeah looks like there are three possible ways for Montenegro to go all of which seem about equally plausable to me.

1) An independent state (either as a Principality of Kingdom)
2) Some form of autonomy such as a principality under the Serbian Monarchy. (Pictured below)
3) Fully integrated into Serbia.

I think it depends whether both Serbia and Montenegro were liberated and had functioning governments before the War with A-H was over. If they had separate functioning Governments, I'd say options 1 or 2 are the most likely. If both Serbia and Montenegro did not have fully functioning governments before the war with A-H ended, I think the ethnic Serbians would want 1 state, and options 2 or 3 would be more likely.

I'd say as its stands, option 2 would be a solution that works best for both camps, but only as a compromise.

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by pearsonwright

I think it depends whether both Serbia and Montenegro were liberated and had functioning governments before the War with A-H was over. If they had separate functioning Governments, I'd say options 1 or 2 are the most likely. If both Serbia and Montenegro did not have fully functioning governments before the war with A-H ended, I think the ethnic Serbians would want 1 state, and options 2 or 3 would be more likely.

I'd say as its stands, option 2 would be a solution that works best for both camps, but only as a compromise.

I'd say author fiat is going to be the only tiebreaker.

[pearsonwright]

I just found this Anti-McClellan Super Pac Ad on Youtube

http://www.flackcheck.org/lincoln-ca...ervice-record/

This is hilarious :P

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by pearsonwright

I just found this Anti-McClellan Super Pac Ad on Youtube

http://www.flackcheck.org/lincoln-ca...ervice-record/

This is hilarious :P

Very nice.

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

I'd say author fiat is going to be the only tiebreaker.

Well in that case lets have Montenegro be in personal Union with Serbia. The back story will be that after the Great War Prince Mirko the eldest son of Nicholas I of Montenegro marries Princess Katarina the only child of Serbian King Alexander I. When Prince Nicholas dies in 1920, Mirko ascends to the throne of Montenegro and after 1947 when Alexander I dies to that of Serbia. Would this work? Also, for personal union's do you keep the Montenegro border as seen below of just blend it with Serbia? Any other things spotted on the map before I post it as official?

[pearsonwright]

For Slovenia, should it be the province of Carniola (first option), or follow slightly more ethnic lines(second option)?



Also, I wonder since Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Bohemia, and Slovokia are in Germany's sphere, if Germany would force them to grant ethnic German area's autonomy.